Great Speech if you have the time

El_Kabong

Purple Hawk wrote:

Probably the same reason that half of the population can't name the majority party in the House of representatives? Pretty sad when a coin flip is as accurate as actually asking people.

My point is...is that speeches like this, as is typical of the left, is frought with intellectual dishonesty. Throw out bits about Cheney talking about al-queda and Iraq in the same sentence long enough, then obviously the war was based on lies....keep telling yourself that long enough, it becomes the truth....the left has a long tradition in this because they know emotion trumps ardent attempts to unveil facts.

You people float so many myths out there and Coulter is right, it is your religion. Just like 2004 was decided by moral values and religious zealots, right? (don't bother posting ANY media bullshit b/c consult ANY published political science article and you'll find that moral issues had no effect). pm me for pdf files. Science points to views on Iraq and the economy. But labeling and presenting stereotypes helps subdue the pain, right?

today's new myth is that the people have spoken. yeah? because we ALL know tester won b/c of his stance on Iraq...or was it his opponent said the word "macacca." too bad his opponent wasn't plugs biden. and we all know missouri was all about iraq, not a lying ad that said republicans want to criminalize "the very promising, which it is not" embryonic stem cell research. Ohio, yeah, that was ALLL about iraq. Didn't most of the left win b/c of conservative Dems like heath shuler?

It would be nice to be presented with a logical argument on how Bush and company sold this war as Iraq being responsible for 911. This "truth" has become so embedded...so just tell me, in your own freaken words. Don't think that's asking too much.

come on, you know bringing up 9/11 and saying iraq had ties w/ al qaeda for a long time is gonne put a certain idea in their head!

have you seen 'why we fight'? there's a good part w/ a vietnam vet who lost his son on 9/11 and requested his name be put on a bomb for the iraq war...then he goes on to say how he couldn't believe when bush said they never said there was a link...how they, especially cheney, had been saying there were stong links and how the lead hijacker was in iraq shortly before 9/11...

intellectual dishonesty is this adminsitration saying the know exactly where the weapons are and how they used intel from the 80's and passed it off as if it were current

Purple Hawk

El_Kabong wrote:

come on, you know bringing up 9/11 and saying iraq had ties w/ al qaeda for a long time is gonne put a certain idea in their head!

have you seen 'why we fight'? there's a good part w/ a vietnam vet who lost his son on 9/11 and requested his name be put on a bomb for the iraq war...then he goes on to say how he couldn't believe when bush said they never said there was a link...how they, especially cheney, had been saying there were stong links and how the lead hijacker was in iraq shortly before 9/11...

intellectual dishonesty is this adminsitration saying the know exactly where the weapons are and how they used intel from the 80's and passed it off as if it were current

Before I re-enter my rant There's an important distinction to be made. The front on the war on militant islamic whackos was not in Iraq in 2003, but I find it disturbing that so many people won't admit it is right now. Whatever you think of the motives, or if you view the execution of the plan as pathetic, we have to deal with the reality as it exists. Neither of us are politicians, so let's put that aside. I can agree there is a huge sectarian problem there, but can't you agree a lot of that is being fueled by whacko islamist extremists? I'm just saying, regardless of your opinions of 2003, i think it's important to understand the consequences of just flat out leaving. In other words, will more people die if we stay, or if we go. I'm not sure I know but I'm guessing more would die in the latter situation.

Anyways, back to my rant....Again, I don't believe that anyone could objectively look at all the speeches given by cheney et al and really say they sold the war as something to do with 911. I mean, to suggest that him saying that members of al-queda where in Iraq...well, members of al-queda are in indonesia, spain, the uk, here, and just about every nation in the world. do you honestly think that there were none in iraq?

but again, my main contention with this speech, and I admit, working on a college campus, it's my frustration with all the many speeches i've heard like it....is the casual slipping in of something like "a war based on lies."....is just taken as absolute fact. To my bigger rant, it's a frustration with the "drive-by" media (sorry, but it IS a good description) of lobbing ideas out there, but no desire to attack and really discuss issues. THe best example from my side is the embryonic stem cells. You want to talk about misinformation, people actually think they are more effective than regular stem cells. I was actually on the liberal side of this issue until i actually researched it. From your side, I see it all the time on here, people questioning your patriotism, or being called a whacko (although, i take pride in the term myself), or whatever. Anyways, maybe one thing we can all agree on is how vacuous tv and the media is...and how there's almost a fear of delving into issues in a serious manner...There's a lazyness to it, where getting to the meat of the issues is almost discouraged....and you're blown off as a whacko if you challenge mainstream ideas.