On the Issues(let's compare candidates)
Abookamongstthemany
Posts: 8,209
This is your chance! This site has quotes and votes detailing each candidates view on the issues.
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm
We can simply copy and paste to compare stances and point out why our candidate deserves the vote. I'd prefer if we didn't sling any mud and just stick to debating the issues. Let's just stick to the topic and discuss these rationally and with a level head.
Another great source of info on the candidates:
http://www.votesmart.org/
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm
We can simply copy and paste to compare stances and point out why our candidate deserves the vote. I'd prefer if we didn't sling any mud and just stick to debating the issues. Let's just stick to the topic and discuss these rationally and with a level head.
Another great source of info on the candidates:
http://www.votesmart.org/
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Does any other candidate come anywhere close to using Hip-Hop to make a difference in this world? I doubt it.
McKinney/Ferraro '08.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i guess it's kinda hard when your cadidate is so vague:
'obama will give us all affordable health care!!'
yeah, but how much is 'affordable'?? who the fuck knows?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Clinton = Experience
What more do you need to know?
what happens when you lose hope?
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
or when "experience" includes poor judgment...
true. i am not for both people. but the post before mine said that we have to talk about is Obama = hope and Hillary = experience. i think that is too simple
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
This was supposed to be a joke. I guess I should have included the sarcastic smiley face.
What the fuck do you want, Kabong?
"You're doctor co-pay, under the Obama plan, would come to EXACTLY $5.37 and not a penny more or less". ? :rolleyes:
Give me a break.
How much is the Nader plan gonna cost me. i want, hard, specific numbers, damn it.
I thought it was funny. I did an actual lol even
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
crickets
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
He just got home, dear.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
He also plans on taxing things we dont' like-pollution for example. He is full of good ideas.
do you really want to know? b/c i know abook's posted that very info for you at least before
is asking how much his plan will cost me a year such a hard thing to answer? christ, you wouldn't buy a car w/o knowing the price, would ya? would you take your car to a mechanic then say 'ok, fix it!' w/o wanting an estimate?
i doubt it, but i guess simply hearing obama say his plan will be affordable is enough, eh?
but since you asked here's how much naders plan will cost, see how easy it is to be clear w/ your plans????
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ralph_Nader_Health_Care.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ralph_Nader.htm#Health_Care
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Ralph_Nader_Health_Care.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2000/1013-02.htm
3.5% payroll tax to fund universal healthcare
Where the government hands an annual billion-dollar revenue earner [like exclusive licenses to distribute government-researched medicines] to a private company for a pittance, is it too much to ask the relevant federal agency to enforce reasonable pricing requirements? This has resulted in a failure to avert preventable cancer deaths.
Use Canadian system as a model for US
North of the border, the Canadians said:
Universal health from cradle through nursing home;
You don’t have to see a bill;
We’re going to do it on 10% of the economy;
We’re going to spend 11 cents per dollar on administrative costs;
We’re going to give you the freedom to choose your own doctor and hospital;
We’re going to relieve the anxiety of losing a lifetime of savings to an illness.
Down South of the border:
We’re spending 15% of our economy and we’re not even covering everybody, almost 50 million uninsured and millions grossly under-covered;
Worrying about pre-existing conditions, co-payments, and other fine print, to take away your right to bring these HMOs to justice after they deny you health care;
24 cents on every dollar on administration, not to mention $100 billion in billing fraud every year;
And more and more we can’t choose our own doctors and hospitals, so were losing our choice.
so there you have it, 3.5% payroll tax, which i wonder how how much a % we pay for health insurance as it is (then have to meet deductables, denials and other shit)?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Hey R, empty out that cluttered pm box!!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
heard
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
tell me what you think, when you get a chance...
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
The Problem
Millions of Americans are uninsured or underinsured because of rising medical costs: 47 million Americans — including nearly 9 million children — lack health insurance with no signs of this trend slowing down.
Health care costs are skyrocketing: Health insurance premiums have risen 4 times faster than wages over the past 6 years.
Too little is spent on prevention and public health: The nation faces epidemics of obesity and chronic diseases as well as new threats of pandemic flu and bioterrorism. Yet despite all of this less than 4 cents of every health care dollar is spent on prevention and public health.
Barack Obama's Plan
Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress.
The Obama plan will have the following features:
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.
Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.
Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.
Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.
Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.
Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents' plans.
Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.
Flexibility for State Plans: Due to federal inaction, some states have taken the lead in health care reform. The Obama plan builds on these efforts and does not replace what states are doing. States can continue to experiment, provided they meet the minimum standards of the national plan.
Lower Costs by Modernizing The U.S. Health Care System
Reducing Costs of Catastrophic Illnesses for Employers and Their Employees: Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers. The Obama plan would reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers' premiums.
Helping Patients:
Support disease management programs. Seventy five percent of total health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Obama will require that providers that participate in the new public plan, Medicare or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) utilize proven disease management programs. This will improve quality of care, give doctors better information and lower costs.
Coordinate and integrate care. Over 133 million Americans have at least one chronic disease and these chronic conditions cost a staggering $1.7 trillion yearly. Obama will support implementation of programs and encourage team care that will improve coordination and integration of care of those with chronic conditions.
Require full transparency about quality and costs. Obama will require hospitals and providers to collect and publicly report measures of health care costs and quality, including data on preventable medical errors, nurse staffing ratios, hospital-acquired infections, and disparities in care. Health plans will also be required to disclose the percentage of premiums that go to patient care as opposed to administrative costs.
Ensuring Providers Deliver Quality Care:
Promote patient safety. Obama will require providers to report preventable medical errors and support hospital and physician practice improvement to prevent future occurrences.
Align incentives for excellence. Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Providers who see patients enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHBP will be rewarded for achieving performance thresholds on outcome measures.
Comparative effectiveness research. Obama will establish an independent institute to guide reviews and research on comparative effectiveness, so that Americans and their doctors will have the accurate and objective information they need to make the best decisions for their health and well-being.
Tackle disparities in health care. Obama will tackle the root causes of health disparities by addressing differences in access to health coverage and promoting prevention and public health, both of which play a major role in addressing disparities. He will also challenge the medical system to eliminate inequities in health care through quality measurement and reporting, implementation of effective interventions such as patient navigation programs, and diversification of the health workforce.
Insurance reform. Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.
Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems: Most medical records are still stored on paper, which makes it hard to coordinate care, measure quality or reduce medical errors and which costs twice as much as electronic claims. Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements for full implementation of health IT. Obama will ensure that patients' privacy is protected.
Lowering Costs by Increasing Competition in the Insurance and Drug Markets: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market. These changes were supposed to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.
Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.
Lower prescription drug costs. The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.
Fight for New Initiatives
Advance the Biomedical Research Field: As a result of biomedical research the prevention, early detection and treatment of diseases such as cancer and heart disease is better today than any other time in history. Barack Obama has consistently supported funding for the national institutes of health and the national science foundation. Obama strongly supports investments in biomedical research, as well as medical education and training in health-related fields, because it provides the foundation for new therapies and diagnostics. Obama has been a champion of research in cancer, mental health, health disparities, global health, women and children's health, and veterans' health. As president, Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research, and better improve the efficiency of that research by improving coordination both within government and across government/private/non-profit partnerships. An Obama administration will ensure that we translate scientific progress into improved approaches to disease prevention, early detection and therapy that is available for all Americans.
Fight AIDS Worldwide. There are 40 million people across the planet infected with HIV/AIDS. As president, Obama will continue to be a global leader in the fight against AIDS. Obama believes in working across party lines to combat this epidemic and recently joined Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) at a large California evangelical church to promote greater investment in the global AIDS battle.
Support Americans with Disabilities: As a former civil rights lawyer, Barack Obama knows firsthand the importance of strong protections for minority communities in our society. Obama is committed to strengthening and better enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so that future generations of Americans with disabilities have equal rights and opportunities. Obama believes we must restore the original legislative intent of the ADA in the wake of court decisions that have restricted the interpretation of this landmark legislation.
Barack Obama is also committed to ensuring that disabled Americans receive Medicaid and Medicare benefits in a low-cost, effective and timely manner. Recognizing that many individuals with disabilities rely on Medicare, Obama worked with Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) to urge the department of health and human services to provide clear and reliable information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and to ensure that the Medicare recipients were protected from fraudulent claims by marketers and drug plan agents.
Improve Mental Health Care. Mental illness affects approximately one in five American families. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that untreated mental illnesses cost the U.S. more than $100 billion per year. As president, Obama will support mental health parity so that coverage for serious mental illnesses are provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases.
Protect Our Children from Lead Poisoning. More than 430,000 American children have dangerously high levels of lead in their blood. Lead can cause irreversible brain damage, learning disabilities, behavioral problems, and, at very high levels, seizures, coma and death. As president, Obama will protect children from lead poisoning by requiring that child care facilities be lead-safe within five years.
Reduce Risks of Mercury Pollution. More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood, and approximately 630,000 newborns are born at risk every year. Barack Obama has a plan to significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.
Support Americans with Autism. More than one million Americans have autism, a complex neurobiological condition that has a range of impacts on thinking, feeling, language, and the ability to relate to others. As diagnostic criteria broaden and awareness increases, more cases of autism have been recognized across the country. Barack Obama believes that we can do more to help autistic Americans and their families understand and live with autism. He has been a strong supporter of more than $1 billion in federal funding for autism research on the root causes and treatments, and he believes that we should increase funding for the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to truly ensure that no child is left behind.
More than anything, autism remains a profound mystery with a broad spectrum of effects on autistic individuals, their families, loved ones, the community, and education and health care systems. Obama believes that the government and our communities should work together to provide a helping hand to autistic individuals and their families.
ok, i will cut down to my objections
ok, but again, how much is 'affordable'?? can't we get a ballpark figure of how much this will cost per person, per family???
similar to the plan congress has in what ways? and in what ways is it different?
how much are these affordable premiums? don't just keep telling me they are, for fucks sake, any saleman tells you he's giving you the deal of the century.
how much will the co-pays be? his plan still has deductibles???? how much?
ohhhhhh, right; affordable!
and i would be interested in seeing the incom-levels for assistance
so there are different tiers of health care?? why does there need to be so many different plans? it doesn't really make sense, other than keeping the FOR-PROFIT health care (sic) companies in control and making money
more options??? what the fuck does that mean? sounds like he wants to increase the FOR-PROFIT health care (ahahahaha) industry
again, i don't see why there's a need for so many 'options'
not worded the best, but from what i gather private insurance palns can get rebates if they swear they will use it towards the premiums. i think we should have a strong national plan instead of worrying about perks for the private market.
that last part doesn't seem like full transparency....in the health insurance industry i doubt their pie charts have only 2 slices; premiums and administrative. i would like to know who is in charge of looking over it? b/c the epa and all these other agencies we have to look out for us are pretty much bought and owned by the corporations they are supposedly overlooking
a whole lotta bullshit packed into that one! so, he's not gonna do anything about the pharmaceutical companies charging so much just that we can now legally buy drugs from canada or europe, did anyone seriously even stop when it became illegal???
and he will work to prohibit them from keeping generics out of markets? how hard will he work? why can't he tell them they can't overcharge us here while charging a small fraction elsewhere?
what's the plan?
this is far from universal as many ppl claim. basically everyone is required to have health insurance, as was brought up in another debate under obama's plan if you have no insurance and show up to a hospital you will be fined.
so, we're all required to buy one of the maaaaaaany health care plans out there or at least the bottom floor national plan. and we will all still have to meet deductibles and co-pays on top of the premium for having the health care plan. he will sure try to convinice the big pharmaceutical companies to lower drug costs, but who knows....in the meantime we can buy drugs from canada as if anyone ever stopped, has anyone even been convicted and sentenced???
on top of that i just don't see entrusting the very corporate interests that made our system so horrid and broken in the first place!
i am for the single payer UNIVERSAL health care plan of kucinich:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=275011
or naders as i have already posted but no one really commented on and was clear in how much it would be in payroll taxes, obama's is just vague saying it will be affordable, as will our deductibles and co-pays. and, it's really funny, but, it seems every year when we have a benefits meeting and our coverage gets less and less while our premiums and deductibles and drugs and co-pays....goes up they alwaaaaaays swear it's affordable and the best that could be done, so plz excuse me if i don't take his and the greedy health care/pharmaceutical companies word for it
what do you think of hr 676 and nader's plan?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
hmmmm, i guess you really didn't have much to say, afterall
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
did you see my reply? it was number 21. i was curious what you thought
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
...
And if Abraham Lincoln were to run for President today... he'd probably never win. It wouldn't matter what he says... it would matter to us... what he looks like. And he was reported to be pretty damn ugly and had a wierd speaking voice... quite unlike the robot Disney version of him.
"Lincoln's voice was, when he first began speaking, shrill, squeaking, piping, unpleasant; his general look, his form, his pose, the color of his flesh, wrinkled and dry, his sensitiveness, and his momentary diffidence, everything seemed to be against him, but he soon recovered."
--William H. Herndon letter, July 19, 1887
"But whenever he began to talk his eyes flashed and every facial movement helped express his idea and feeling. Then involuntarily vanished all thought or consciousness of his uncouth appearance, or awkward manner, or even his high keyed, unpleasant voice."
--Abram Bergen in Intimate Memories of Lincoln
"The [second] inaugural address was received in most profound silence. Every word was clear and audible as the ringing and somewhat shrill tones of Lincoln's voice sounded over the vast concourse."
--Noah Brooks in Washington in Lincoln's Time
Hail, Hail!!!
I meant to reply to this earlier. This is such a good point, Cos! It's like we forgot high school and what dicks the popular kids were. They'd always get voted into student council because they passed out colorful stickers, ribbons and pins and were pretty and had the best of everything and on the cheerleading squad/football team. Everyone just overlooked how dumb they were in many cases and didn't care if these people offered the best ideas to bettering our school.
Why are we stuck as nation in this same mentality?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Because America is just a giant high school/college where the Fraternity that Neidermeyer and those tools were in... that hated John Bulushi's Delta house from the movie, 'Animal House'... are actually running the country?
...
Is that the right answer?
Hail, Hail!!!
Maybe.
What about Nader, Cosmo? Kucinich is very much like him 'on the issues' and Nader has said before that if you don't vote for him, vote for Kucinich. Isn't Nader more "presidential" than Kucinich? I think so. And I think he's very well spoken and a fucking genius. So why is he viewed as a loon by the average American? Is it because his appearance reminds them of Moe from the Simpsons?
Moe from the Simpsons. LOL
I think Nader is a genius, too. I can only hope to be so sharp and articulate at his age! He's so quick to the punch...he kills in those goofy mainstream network interviews. His latest appearance on Hard Ball was the best!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think what hurt Nader was some of his extreme fans. I don't want to call them Leftists... because they were so far off the chart that they showed up on the other side. I'm talking about the people who showed up at his rallies dressed up like space aliens... or worse... in Star Trek Uniforms. Unfortunately, those were the people who the broadcast news would interview and take pictures of. To those people.... please... if you want Nader (or Your Candidate) to win... stay home until it's time to vote.
Hail, Hail!!!