Funny

angelica

El Kabong wrote:

i forget the exact quote but it was from the head of indian affairs waay back then...he said something about the problem w/ these ppl is they don't want things like we do, how we needed to 'civilize' them and dress them in pants w/ pockets so they will want things to put into those pockets...

i don't think we can just give away all the land but we can at least give them better spots for reservations *has anyone seen 'the canary effect'? http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/t...tNumb er=0912 )

we could also apologize for actions like the massacre at wounded knee where we killed a bunch of men, women and children just for practicing their religion...

When we begin to recognise the folly of our dominance ideas in general, we'll begin to naturally see the necessity to dissolve little, silly, false/illusional barriers in any way we can--with any people. And we'll begin to find ways to relate, understand and cooperate.

El_Kabong

angelica wrote:

When we begin to recognise the folly of our dominance ideas in general, we'll begin to naturally see the necessity to dissolve little, silly, false/illusional barriers in any way we can--with any people. And we'll begin to find ways to relate, understand and cooperate.

but do you think that's possible? i think we are raised and conditioned to lose touch w/ these concepts and kept in a state of somewhat ignorance towards things. we are kept from developing fully and using our full potentials

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

What I think is cool is the Native American spiritual concept that we don't own land. Rather we can harmonise with nature and experience the abundance and the shelter the land offers us.

For us to feel that the fruits of the earth including the land are ours to own and control is an idea that comes from the mindset that we humans dominate and control the planet. Such an idea is about hierarchy, where we are "above" the land and have the right to dominate it. Just like our mistaken belief that we dominate nature. It's pretty clear that such an idea has brought huge imbalances in nature all around us. We're oblivious to the truth: the idea of dominance is our own imbalanced human idea and it is out of synch with reality. That lack of harmony with the truth creates fallout consequences for us to learn from.

It's just about time that we recognise what our dominance has brought us. And it's the perfect time for us to start recognising the validity of creating equal, harmonious partnerships with all the relationships in our lives. That begins in our relationship with ourselves--we learn to find inner harmony instead of practising inner dominance and squashing aspects of ourselves we've deemed not worthy.

This concept can then spread outwards where we can create balance in our relationship with the planet we derive our very sustenance from. When we treat ourselves with honour and respect, we'll find ourselves naturally drawn to respect and value that around us. We'll find ourselves creating balanced, safe relationships with our loved ones, and all people.

The patriarchal ideals of dominance and submission are on their way out. It's time for equal relationships of all kinds. It's time to recognise the sacred in ourselves and when we do so, we'll see the sacred in the earth, in our loved ones, and in our neighbours as well.

As the hierarchal ideas fade, so will the idea of "I was here first". Or "we have more right to this land because it is ours". Such natural shifts are happening. We can get this idea on a heart level and align to the shifts and harmonise with life, or we can continue learning the hard way, through trial and error.

This is a wonderful post.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

we are kept from developing fully and using our full potentials

Kept by whom?

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Kept by whom?

differing things, mainly i think it's in a certain groups interest to mold the release and content of information and knowledge towards their concerns. society is kept from it's full potential by lousy education, mass marketing, environment (as in surroundings)...

like, i had a thought the other day...i went to a locally owned and operated movie theater, they didn't play any sprite or coke commericals...just the silence policy and trailers then right to the movie...

so this got me thinking about how our attention spans on average tend to be...not so good. so could it be partly advertising's fault? think of how much tv the avg person watches (especially kids), think of how many commercials they see. think of how many commericals they remember or are taken in by. we are raised having our attention broken up. could be a link, or it couldn't, i don't know, but it seems possible.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

differing things, mainly i think it's in a certain groups interest to mold the release and content of information and knowledge towards their concerns. society is kept from it's full potential by lousy education, mass marketing, environment (as in surroundings)...

like, i had a thought the other day...i went to a locally owned and operated movie theater, they didn't play any sprite or coke commericals...just the silence policy and trailers then right to the movie...

so this got me thinking about how our attention spans on average tend to be...not so good. so could it be partly advertising's fault? think of how much tv the avg person watches (especially kids), think of how many commercials they see. think of how many commericals they remember or are taken in by. we are raised having our attention broken up. could be a link, or it couldn't, i don't know, but it seems possible.

Ok. I think the obvious solution is threefold:

- First, we need to give power to other "certain groups". Let's give them a few million bucks and free reign to do and say whatever they want. And let's start infecting culture with taboos against questioning them in order to level their disadvantage against the entrenched "certain groups". That should clear up the problem of having "certain groups" pushing their agendas, right?

- Second, we need to ban all advertisements. Let's turn all television into pay-for-watch a la HBO. But since the poor can't afford this, let's just charge all the rich $10,000 each to watch TV. That should eliminate TV ads.

- Third, we need to tax any movie theater that shows an advertisement. And we must force them not to raise their ticket prices afterwards. That should eliminate movie ads.


Or, perhaps, we could ask why people watch so much Tv. Or, perhaps, we could ask why advertising is so pervasive in our consumer culture, and what creates that cunsumer culture to begin with. A good place to start would be by reading this part of angelica's post:

"It's just about time that we recognise what our dominance has brought us. And it's the perfect time for us to start recognising the validity of creating equal, harmonious partnerships with all the relationships in our lives. That begins in our relationship with ourselves--we learn to find inner harmony instead of practising inner dominance and squashing aspects of ourselves we've deemed not worthy."

But that would mean not being able to blame distant executives and random politicians. So what good is that?

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok. I think the obvious solution is threefold:

- First, we need to give power to other "certain groups". Let's give them a few million bucks and free reign to do and say whatever they want. And let's start infecting culture with taboos against questioning them in order to level their disadvantage against the entrenched "certain groups". That should clear up the problem of having "certain groups" pushing their agendas, right?

- Second, we need to ban all advertisements. Let's turn all television into pay-for-watch a la HBO. But since the poor can't afford this, let's just charge all the rich $10,000 each to watch TV. That should eliminate TV ads.

- Third, we need to tax any movie theater that shows an advertisement. And we must force them not to raise their ticket prices afterwards. That should eliminate movie ads.

umm...no, actually i don't think that's a very good solution at all...

farfromglorified wrote:

Or, perhaps, we could ask why people watch so much Tv. Or, perhaps, we could ask why advertising is so pervasive in our consumer culture, and what creates that cunsumer culture to begin with. A good place to start would be by reading this part of angelica's post:

"It's just about time that we recognise what our dominance has brought us. And it's the perfect time for us to start recognising the validity of creating equal, harmonious partnerships with all the relationships in our lives. That begins in our relationship with ourselves--we learn to find inner harmony instead of practising inner dominance and squashing aspects of ourselves we've deemed not worthy."

But that would mean not being able to blame distant executives and random politicians. So what good is that?

b/c they create things/ways to lead us in the opposite way of that. they operate in a world of money, distractions, false reality...i'm not saying it's entirely their fault, of course a large part of the blame would go to the person for giving in, still doesn't take the blame away from the originating source. like if i talked your kid into skipping school and robbing stores while you would blame your son for going along w/ it you'd be blaming me for pushing it.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

umm...no, actually i don't think that's a very good solution at all...

Judging from many of your posts here, I'm surprised. What would be a good solution?

b/c they create things/ways to lead us in the opposite way of that. they operate in a world of money, distractions, false reality...i'm not saying it's entirely their fault, of course a large part of the blame would go to the person for giving in, still doesn't take the blame away from the originating source.

This is all very valid. However, how come you say this: "a large part of the blame would go to the person for giving in", but your original post makes absolutely no mention of that?

like if i talked your kid into skipping school and robbing stores while you would blame your son for going along w/ it you'd be blaming me for pushing it.

That's a good analogy. In that kind of situation, your influence would be largely irrelevant. By the logic I've seen you espouse, a typical reaction would be to simply prevent my son from spending time with you rather than ask why my son bothered to listen to you in the first place. For my child, I would never bother with the former because I'd be too busy addressing the latter.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Judging from many of your posts here, I'm surprised. What would be a good solution?

exactly what angelica posted! the main theme of what the native americans believed. live in harmony w/ nature, not to control and exploit it. move away from such a strong emphasis on materialism, greed, status, power, control, lots of rooms you don't need to fill w/ even more things you didn't really need...(and now, i'm not advocating living in a teepee or anything, i just think we abuse technology a little too much...instead putting stronger efforts towards advancements like cures for cancer and other diseases, food and shelter for everyone, less polluting sources of energy, all sorts of environmental impacts...

farfromglorified wrote:

This is all very valid. However, how come you say this: "a large part of the blame would go to the person for giving in", but your original post makes absolutely no mention of that?

b/c i assign different levels of 'blame'. who do you fault more, the liar or the person listening to the lie and accepting it? they have far more influence over this direction. would it be easier to say stop doing that, or talking individually toevery person it effects?

farfromglorified wrote:

That's a good analogy. In that kind of situation, your influence would be largely irrelevant. By the logic I've seen you espouse, a typical reaction would be to simply prevent my son from spending time with you rather than ask why my son bothered to listen to you in the first place. For my child, I would never bother with the former because I'd be too busy addressing the latter.

but what you failed to address is would i be to blame? let's say we go to court...your kid was the one who actually did the robberies, i 'didn't know what he was doing', but you know different. would you be uspet your if your kid goes to jail and nothing happens to me? i'm not saying you would excuse your son and not say 'well, what the hell made you think it was a good idea!?'

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

exactly what angelica posted! the main theme of what the native americans believed. live in harmony w/ nature, not to control and exploit it. move away from such a strong emphasis on materialism, greed, status, power, control, lots of rooms you don't need to fill w/ even more things you didn't really need...(and now, i'm not advocating living in a teepee or anything, i just think we abuse technology a little too much...instead putting stronger efforts towards advancements like cures for cancer and other diseases, food and shelter for everyone, less polluting sources of energy, all sorts of environmental impacts...

It's funny that you said this -- I spent most of my weekend building a 30' teepee in my back yard. But it actually has a movie projector inside it, so I suppose I missed the mark

I agree with the all above. The solution to materialism, greed, status, power, and control is the rejection of their precepts. But you cannot expect everyone to reject those things -- all are defining characteristics of the mind and many perceive those things as good for them. Even if they are wrong, you have no right to force your rejections upon them. You simply must reject them yourself.

b/c i assign different levels of 'blame'. who do you fault more, the liar or the person listening to the lie and accepting it? they have far more influence over this direction. would it be easier to say stop doing that, or talking individually toevery person it effects?

I will always fault the believer of a lie more than the liar. Nothing binds a man to a liar until he chooses to accept the liar's terms.

It is certainly easier to punish liars. However, it will fail because for every liar you punish, another will replace him. The solution is to make the lies irrelevant.

but what you failed to address is would i be to blame?

Certainly, but not primarily. You would be to blame as a liar, not as a thief.

let's say we go to court...your kid was the one who actually did the robberies, i 'didn't know what he was doing', but you know different. would you be uspet your if your kid goes to jail and nothing happens to me? i'm not saying you would excuse your son and not say 'well, what the hell made you think it was a good idea!?'

I would never support my child if he wishes to pawn off his own responsibilities and morality onto you. If my child steals something based only on your words, I would never expect or want a system of justice to hold you accountable for the actions of another. That is disgusting.

Eliot Rosewater

keeponrockin wrote:

So you believe illegals kids are born here they should have all the rights that you do?

Yes, human rights. We all should have human rights and if we could all realize that, then borders would mean nothing.

MCG

Having a good laugh, exactly what I needed today.

angelica

El_Kabong wrote:

angelica wrote:

When we begin to recognise the folly of our dominance ideas in general, we'll begin to naturally see the necessity to dissolve little, silly, false/illusional barriers in any way we can--with any people. And we'll begin to find ways to relate, understand and cooperate.

but do you think that's possible? i think we are raised and conditioned to lose touch w/ these concepts and kept in a state of somewhat ignorance towards things. we are kept from developing fully and using our full potentials

Who is the thinker of our thoughts? We are not the thoughts and the beliefs that we are taught. We are each the thinker inside of us who thinks the thoughts and believes the beliefs. Yes, most people believe they are what society has made them. That's the tribal mindset that we accept as our lot in life because it's what we know--it's what we've been taught. We learned very well. Most people are unconscious of their ability to choose their thoughts, and to develop their own ideas and to become their individual self who is personally empowered from within.

The evolutionary alignment to the natural forces is spreading throughout our societies, mostly unconsciously. Such concepts are permeating the consciousness of all. When people continue to choose to buy into the tribal mindset and remain unconscious of what is happening in their lives as individuals, they allow the higher ideals to move through them unconsciously. This means that they find themselves constantly out of synch with their own life most of the time. They don't realise what is happening to them and in the world because they are choosing to remain unconscious. They find themselves out of the balance of their own lives. It is because they have not learned how to realise, much less own their power to wake up and adapt to what happens around them. They stay separate from their own power.

Very few of those around us are awake and aware and are keeping their eyes open to the need to adapt to the rapid changes in their lives in order to stay aligned to life. Many of us will be forced via life experiences to rapidly grow and adapt to the changes. Many will fall by the wayside and seek help for addictions, disorders, etc. and will come out renewed and metamorphosised, ready to manage the natural forces at work. Others will fall out of the evolutionary game via death on all kinds of levels, whether by violence, physical illness, acts of environmental destruction, accidents, etc. The bottom line is: "There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come" (-Victor Hugo). Change is upon us.

This is why people such as farfromglorified ask that we don't find ways to bypass the evolutionary learning stages by enforcing laws that allow people to remain asleep. (if I'm not assuming too much of his views). The way we help our neighbour is not by enforcing and legislating the illusion of peace and power balance, but rather by finding the ways to support people in opening their eyes. We can support people in finding their own way. We cannot hand them the way, though. We also cannot choose for them to wake up. That is a sacred choice for each person to make for themselves.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

This is a wonderful post.

Thank you. It's nice to have a moment or two of alignment.

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

This is why people such as farfromglorified ask that we don't find ways to bypass the evolutionary learning stages by enforcing laws that allow people to remain asleep. (if I'm not assuming too much of his views).

You are not assuming too much. And you explain why very well in these statements:

angelica wrote:

Who is the thinker of our thoughts? We are not the thoughts and the beliefs that we are taught. We are each the thinker inside of us who thinks the thoughts and believes the beliefs.
....
It is because they have not learned how to realise, much less own their power to wake up and adapt to what happens around them. They stay separate from their own power.
....
The way we help our neighbour is not by enforcing and legislating the illusion of peace and power balance, but rather by finding the ways to support people in opening their eyes. We can support people in finding their own way. We cannot hand them the way, though. We also cannot choose for them to wake up. That is a sacred choice for each person to make for themselves.

decides2dream

Angelica wrote:

The way we help our neighbour is not by enforcing and legislating the illusion of peace and power balance, but rather by finding the ways to support people in opening their eyes. We can support people in finding their own way. We cannot hand them the way, though. We also cannot choose for them to wake up. That is a sacred choice for each person to make for themselves.

exactly. well stated. it's ALL about individuals' rights/choices....and the responsibilities that come from your own choices. no individual/group/nation...should try to hinder or force another individual/group/nation...to follow one's choices over the other.

Vedderlution_Baby

Any of you dudes read "Lies my teacher told me" cause it's pretty sweet.