Today's Pig Is Tomorrow's Bacon

2

Comments

  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Whether or not you qualify for medicaid/medicare is dependent on your family status and number of children you have. I don't have a problem with that.


    No matter how you look at though you can't really call it fair when the richest nation in the world is ranked last among industrialized nations in health care, even behind some third world countries...a crime.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Commy wrote:
    No matter how you look at though you can't really call it fair when the richest nation in the world is ranked last among industrialized nations in health care, even behind some third world countries...a crime.


    and where do we fall, again, in education, child mortality rates, scientists, engineers....?

    profits are more important than life
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Commy wrote:
    No matter how you look at though you can't really call it fair when the richest nation in the world is ranked last among industrialized nations in health care, even behind some third world countries...a crime.

    Ranked. What does that mean? How is it operationalized?
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    El_Kabong wrote:
    and where do we fall, again, in education, child mortality rates, scientists, engineers....?

    profits are more important than life

    I can agree with you on education...and the public education system and it's lack of incentives and accountability is to blame...but that's for another thread
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Ranked. What does that mean? How is it operationalized?


    worst/best...most/least...and where your country falls in compared to others.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    worst/best...most/least...and where your country falls in compared to others.

    what does worst/best mean? or most least?

    I'm guessing choice of dr is underated in these rankings...I like my dr...I would not respond well to someone telling me where to go.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    what does worst/best mean? or most least?

    I'm guessing choice of dr is underated in these rankings...I like my dr...I would not respond well to someone telling me where to go.

    The countries where the most people have healthcare are at the top of the ranking and it goes down form there. It's a way to compare.

    I don't undertsand what having a choice of dr has to do with it. Any doctor care at all would be a nice change for many.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The countries where the most people have healthcare are at the top of the ranking and it goes down form there. It's a way to compare.

    I don't undertsand what having a choice of dr has to do with it. Any doctor care at all would be a nice change for many.

    I don't think using the % of people that have health care is a good way to measure quality of health care. Choosing which dr you want, not having to wait, etc, providing for those who can't afford while allowing those who can afford the choice seems like a big benefit to me.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I can agree with you on education...and the public education system and it's lack of incentives and accountability is to blame...but that's for another thread


    i think the public educaitonal system has several errors within it, but yes, accountability and incentives would be two of them...another would be that we spend more on the war on drugs than education and they cut programs like the head start program completely
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Ranked. What does that mean? How is it operationalized?


    the percentage of population with access to health care, I believe. this was in 2000 or so things may be different now..
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i think the public educaitonal system has several errors within it, but yes, accountability and incentives would be two of them...another would be that we spend more on the war on drugs than education and they cut programs like the head start program completely

    I agree with you on the war on drugs, but i don't think spending more money on education is the answer. People need to be given a choice where to send their kids to school. Schools need incentives to perform, throwing money at the current situation only promotes inefficiency.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I don't think using the % of people that have health care is a good way to measure quality of health care. Choosing which dr you want, not having to wait, etc, providing for those who can't afford while allowing those who can afford the choice seems like a big benefit to me.


    fundamental difference...i don't think the poor are somehow less deserving of good healthcare.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I agree with you on the war on drugs, but i don't think spending more money on education is the answer. People need to be given a choice where to send their kids to school. Schools need incentives to perform, throwing money at the current situation only promotes inefficiency.

    But throwing money to private schools works nicely...the richer kids still get the benefit of that money.

    I don't think the poor kids are somehow less deserving a good education. People don't have choice if they don't have the money. There will always be poor people and those children deserve the same opportunites as wealthy ones or else the cycle never ends.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    fundamental difference...i don't think the poor are somehow less deserving of good healthcare.

    I don't think I said they are. In fact, I said I agree with programs that give health care to those who need it. The key is...to those who need it.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I don't think I said they are. In fact, I said I agree with programs that give health care to those who need it. The key is...to those who need it.

    what do you mean those who need it?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    But throwing money to private schools works nicely...the richer kids still get the benefit of that money.

    I don't think the poor kids are somehow less deserving a good education. People don't have choice if they don't have the money. There will always be poor people and those children deserve the same opportunites as wealthy ones or else the cycle never ends.

    Imagine if poor kids had the opportunity to go to the schools that rich kids did. Why are those schools better? Is it because they have more money? There is not a correlation between $$$ and performance. Dumping money sounds compassionate, but it isn't. It's an easy remedy that makes us feel good to avoid more complicated reasons why certain people are afforded better education than others. People need to be given a choice!
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    what do you mean those who need it?

    Those that can't afford it.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Imagine if poor kids had the opportunity to go to the schools that rich kids did. Why are those schools better? Is it because they have more money? There is not a correlation between $$$ and performance. Dumping money sounds compassionate, but it isn't. It's an easy remedy that makes us feel good to avoid more complicated reasons why certain people are afforded better education than others. People need to be given a choice!

    Money helps buy books, equipment, tools, software, educational material and supplies that are needed to educate. If by people, you mean everyone having an equal choice, then i agree.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Money helps buy books, equipment, tools, software, educational material and supplies that are needed to educate. If by people, you mean everyone having an equal choice, then i agree.

    That's what I'm saying, I think schools should compete for students. People shouldn't be forced to send their children to a certain school.


    Unfortunately, money doesn't usually equate to books, equipment, tools, etc.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I agree with you on the war on drugs, but i don't think spending more money on education is the answer. People need to be given a choice where to send their kids to school. Schools need incentives to perform, throwing money at the current situation only promotes inefficiency.


    i guess it depends on how you look at it...the first high school i went to had a lot of black ppl...a few bad neighborhoods schooled there. but by my sophmore year they had built a new high school which schooled the kids that lived in the areas of...higher economic backgrounds. my new school had a planetarium, a video production lab, sets, the best sports fields/gyms, more music programs, tvs and vcrs in every classroom...lots of things...then i'd see friends that still went to my old school and see how they still had a few tvs chained to carts that they had to share, old building w/ chipped paint jobs and chipped walls...bascially they still had shit. money can certainly help, it just depends on how it's spent. is it building a planetarium and buying tvs and vcrs? or is it being misspent/misused?

    access to a quality education is not available to a whole lot of children.


    as for health care, i think it's in the best interest of a nation to have a healthy populace. at the very least we should guarantee health care to everyone under 18, altho i still believe in it for everyone. no matter how much you can actually blame the parents as a factor in these issues it is the children who are being punished by it.

    ppl who have money wouldn't dare take medicare/caid just for the stigma alone. i remember a few years ago my insurance was really low, i never paid more than $10 for prescriptions...now i pay $40/2 weeks just for me and i was prescribed a med that w/ my new insurance cost just under $100...and as i said, this wasn't any major kind of drug.

    we don't have choice when it comes to drugs, we're not even allowed to buy them from canada, we have been sold out to the health care/hmo and pharamcuetical industries
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way

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