Anti- Zionist Jewish Protesters

Abookamongstthemany

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dSHl3C9kgY

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8345/tnantizionismjpgaq7.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4809/jewsagainstmilitaryaidtoisraeltt7.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2100/jatows4.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6430/030606cfi8.jpg

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/8808/200pxzionismprotest11zh0.jpg

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To me these people are seeing both sides and speaking out against violence because it's still wrong no matter who is doing it.

Ahnimus

It's interesting that Zionism is so named because the original plan was for the Jews to colonize around Mt. Zion in Africa.

Cosmo

To balance it out...
There also needs to be those on the Arab side of the fence that openly renounce the actions of their radical wing. They tend to be silent for one reason or another.
You'd think by now, both sides would see how fucking lame they both are acting and move towards a peaceful co-existance.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

To balance it out...
There also needs to be those on the Arab side of the fence that openly renounce the actions of their radical wing. They tend to be silent for one reason or another.

And it needs to happen in the Middle Eastern nations themselves ... You have Muslim groups here in Canada denouncing terrorism and violence, and preaching religious tolerance. Its amazing. But it ain't happening at the source.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

And it needs to happen in the Middle Eastern nations themselves ... You have Muslim groups here in Canada denouncing terrorism and violence, and preaching religious tolerance. Its amazing. But it ain't happening at the source.

It does happen, they are a minority however. I would also think most people that disagree with those actions have fled to places like Canada.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

It does happen, they are a minority however. I would also think most people that disagree with those actions have fled to places like Canada.

Which I don't have a problem with. I like the idea of people who believe in tolerance becoming new Canadian citizens. The problem being, the violence on the other side of the world continues because there are too many people who find it acceptable. And that goes for Israel, too.

RockinInCanada

reborncareerist wrote:

Which I don't have a problem with. I like the idea of people who believe in tolerance becoming new Canadian citizens. The problem being, the violence on the other side of the world continues because there are too many people who find it acceptable. And that goes for Israel, too.

Good point at nice large Muslim anti-violence rally in a Middle Eastern country would maybe help remove their bad imagine....nice to see in Canada there are Muslims/Jewish protesting together....now that is something I like to see

Abookamongstthemany

reborncareerist wrote:

Which I don't have a problem with. I like the idea of people who believe in tolerance becoming new Canadian citizens. The problem being, the violence on the other side of the world continues because there are too many people who find it acceptable. And that goes for Israel, too.

The problem lies in trust...do they trust us enough to care before they are completely wiped out? Will the world cry out to stop the genocide if they stop retaliating? I hope they would.

rebornFixer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The problem lies in trust...do they trust us enough to care before they are completely wiped out? Will the world cry out to stop the genocide if they stop retaliating? I hope they would.

Who are you talking about? The radical Arab world is in absolutely no danger of being wiped out. If anything, radical ideologies are becoming stronger.

Abookamongstthemany

reborncareerist wrote:

Who are you talking about? The radical Arab world is in absolutely no danger of being wiped out. If anything, radical ideologies are becoming stronger.

If they stopped killing would they still be considered radicals?

rebornFixer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

If they stopped killing would they still be considered radicals?

Actually, probably, but not to the same extent. Many societies in this era embrace religious/ethnic tolerance, freedom for people of both genders, etc., even though obviously even democracies still have a long way to go. The point is, steps have been taken and much of the so-called Western world has evolved past these old school conceptualizations of religion.
Anyhow, if the killing stopped, I think it would be a lot easier for people in this part of the world to develop more empathy for groups like the Palestinians. And these people DO deserve empathy. Terrorism, however, kills empathy dead. These tactics just fuel the hatred and bigotry. If the violence stopped, how could Israel justify a lot of its current actions? Would the missile strikes and bulldozings even be "needed"? Its hard to say for sure ... My view is that Isreal would lose its appetite for violence if terrorism ceased to be a concern.

shiraz

Once again: Zionism is irelevant in Israel for many years. What you need to care about is Israeli / Palestinian people who can see BOTH sides, prefer to learn from past mistakes than reliving it, live in the present (just like Eddie said (-:) and think about the future.

I know all of you would think I'm biased, but I'm not: Israel has LOTS of this kind of people. Palestine? maybe there are such people down there, but like you said they tend to keep their mouth shut.

RockinInCanada

shiraz wrote:

Once again: Zionism is irelevant in Israel for many years. What you need to care about is Israeli / Palestinian people who can see BOTH sides, prefer to learn from past mistakes than reliving it, live in the present (just like Eddie said (-:) and think about the future.

I know all of you would think I'm biased, but I'm not: Israel has LOTS of this kind of people. Palestine? maybe there are such people down there, but like you said they tend to keep their mouth shut.

I am pretty sure there are some people in Palestine that want peace...to think there isn't....well I have no words to describe it....

shiraz

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I am pretty sure there are some people in Palestine that want peace...to think there isn't....well I have no words to describe it....

Hey, I said "maybe there are such people down there, but like you said they tend to keep their mouth shut". nothing else.

Abookamongstthemany

reborncareerist wrote:

Actually, probably, but not to the same extent. Many societies in this era embrace religious/ethnic tolerance, freedom for people of both genders, etc., even though obviously even democracies still have a long way to go. The point is, steps have been taken and much of the so-called Western world has evolved past these old school conceptualizations of religion.
Anyhow, if the killing stopped, I think it would be a lot easier for people in this part of the world to develop more empathy for groups like the Palestinians. And these people DO deserve empathy. Terrorism, however, kills empathy dead. These tactics just fuel the hatred and bigotry. If the violence stopped, how could Israel justify a lot of its current actions? Would the missile strikes and bulldozings even be "needed"? Its hard to say for sure ... My view is that Isreal would lose its appetite for violence if terrorism ceased to be a concern.

Exactly my point...if the Arabs stopped suicide bombings and killing in general and if israel did still continue to exterminate the Arabs from their homeland, would the world come to their rescue? Or would they be ignored and left to die?

shiraz

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Exactly my point...if the Arabs stopped suicide bombings and killing in general and if israel did still continue to exterminate the Arabs from their homeland, would the world come to their rescue? Or would they be ignored and left to die?

1. The word "exterminate" is not appropriate for this case, killing (which you used to describe the arab actions) is the right word for both of us.

2. If the western world is having massive protests for them across the globe, and continue to donate them money and humanitarian help with Hamas and terror are all around, then the answer is YES - I think they'll come for their rescue either way.

El_Kabong

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Exactly my point...if the Arabs stopped suicide bombings and killing in general and if israel did still continue to exterminate the Arabs from their homeland, would the world come to their rescue? Or would they be ignored and left to die?

isn't that why there are suicide bombings now?

while what came first; the chicken or the egg may be open for debate it seems pretty clear the occupation came before the suicide bomb

jsand

El_Kabong wrote:

isn't that why there are suicide bombings now?

while what came first; the chicken or the egg may be open for debate it seems pretty clear the occupation came before the suicide bomb

Not true. Arab violence against the Jews/Israelis began even before Israel's inception - although I can't say for sure whether the Arabs were blowing themselves up at that point.

"Arab nationalists, opposed to the Balfour declaration, the mandate, and the Jewish National Home, instigated riots and pogroms against Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron, Jaffa, and Haifa. As a result of the 1921 Arab attacks, the Haganah was formed to protect Jewish settlements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

El_Kabong

jsand wrote:

Not true. Arab violence against the Jews/Israelis began even before Israel's inception - although I can't say for sure whether the Arabs were blowing themselves up at that point.

"Arab nationalists, opposed to the Balfour declaration, the mandate, and the Jewish National Home, instigated riots and pogroms against Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron, Jaffa, and Haifa. As a result of the 1921 Arab attacks, the Haganah was formed to protect Jewish settlements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

first you left out key parts to that article, like

'Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly, creating much Arab resentment.'

'In some cases, land purchases by the Jewish agencies from absentee landlords led to the eviction of the Palestinian Arab tenants, who were replaced by the Jews of the kibbutzim. The Arabic speakers before World War I had the status of peasants (felaheen), and did not own their land although they might own the trees that grew on that land. Because most of these Jews were familiar with the European tradition of land-ownership, they did not realize that they were purchasing only the land, not the trees that grew on that land. This was often a source of misunderstanding and conflict.'


we can also go back to the crusades if you'd like since you're going back 80 some years...was there constant fighting from the 20's to now? no, of course not. it came and went.

rebornFixer

El_Kabong wrote:

first you left out key parts to that article, like

'Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly, creating much Arab resentment.'

'In some cases, land purchases by the Jewish agencies from absentee landlords led to the eviction of the Palestinian Arab tenants, who were replaced by the Jews of the kibbutzim. The Arabic speakers before World War I had the status of peasants (felaheen), and did not own their land although they might own the trees that grew on that land. Because most of these Jews were familiar with the European tradition of land-ownership, they did not realize that they were purchasing only the land, not the trees that grew on that land. This was often a source of misunderstanding and conflict.'


we can also go back to the crusades if you'd like since you're going back 80 some years...was there constant fighting from the 20's to now? no, of course not. it came and went.

So, in other words, the more Jews that came, the more Arabs started to dislike Jews. Is this defensible? It would be like me saying "Man, I didn't mind Chinese immigrants at first in my neighborhood ... But there's getting to be too damn many of them!". I can see the point about being evicted from one's own land, mind you.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

So, in other words, the more Jews that came, the more Arabs started to dislike Jews. Is this defensible? It would be like me saying "Man, I didn't mind Chinese immigrants at first in my neighborhood ... But there's getting to be too damn many of them!". I can see the point about being evicted from one's own land, mind you.

Palestine was promised to the Arabs by the Brittish empire for helping the Brits defeat the Ottoman empire. It was also promised to the Jews afterwards, and ultimately for economic interest it went to the jews. And yea, they kicked palestines out of their homes, or just killed them out.