Hell Hath No Fury Like a Modern Liberal

Mutiny! he cried

RainDog wrote:

Petty comments? Ah. Still no word on how you completely misinterpreted me when you called me out in the Iranian thread?

Most people understand that when they call Obama "anti-war" they are refering to the Iraq war. If you, however, thought that Obama was against all wars - despite him repeatedly saying otherwise - then that's more your problem than ours.

what Iranian thread??

oh, right anti-war means ONLY Iraq, because that's the only war in history (and explains why he said in 2004 there wasn't much difference in Bush's and his view on the war)

unifiedscene

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

You 3 seem to be missing the point. It goes a little like this

-Obama supporters now claim no one ever thought Obama was progressive (and sorry RainDog, being centrist is FAR from progressive) or anti-war. I've even seen some here say only an uneducated idiot tought these things of Obama.

So I pointed out were several people seemed to have these ideas in their head and instead of addressing that you nmake petty comments. Whatever works for you, I guess.

What Obama said his positions were and what people believed or wanted to believe are two different things. You can't claim Obama was lying to people or misleading them just because he was clear about where he stood but some heard what they wanted.

Mutiny! he cried

unifiedscene wrote:

What Obama said his positions were and what people believed or wanted to believe are two different things. You can't claim Obama was lying to people or misleading them just because he was clear about where he stood but some heard what they wanted.

I guess it doesn't matter that I didn't ake that claim with my bumps but rather pointed out many people seemed to have been under the impression which now a lot of Obama supporters claim NO ONE thought?

RainDog

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

what Iranian thread??

Go, Obama....I think.

Most of my posts in that thread are on the subject of Obama not being as anti-war as Kucinich, and you - in some effort to prove a point, I guess - call me out for somehow thinking Obama is completely anti-war; which, I might add, was the opposite of the point I was trying to make those many months ago. Swing and a miss.

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

oh, right anti-war means ONLY Iraq, because that's the only war in history (and explains why he said in 2004 there wasn't much difference in Bush's and his view on the war)

When talking about Obama, yes - anti-war does kind of mean "only Iraq." Obama said as much back in 2002; that he is not anti-war, only anti-dumb-war like the invasion of Iraq. Sounds like good judgement - not flowers and peace pipes.

And then you point out what he said in 2004 (which is relative anyway, because once a country has been invaded, there are only so many courses of action left - but that might be too complicated for you). Are you trying to prove those that said "only an idiot would think Obama was completley anti-war" correct? Because you are pointing out evidence that, yes, he campaigned as a pretty center left candidate that wasn't completely anti-war.

my2hands

please point to where Barack Obama stated he was completely "anti-war"


thank you

Mutiny! he cried

my2hands wrote:

please point to where Barack Obama stated he was completely "anti-war"


thank you

christ, for the last fucking time this is not about Obama but his supporters!

I keep reading people here saying NO ONE THOUGHT Obama was anti-war or going to bring change outside of "now a democrat is in power" some even said if anyone thought different they were an uneducattyed idiot. So, I pointed out several people here seemed to hold those 'uneducated' beliefs

you are welcome

my2hands

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

christ, for the last fucking time this is not about Obama but his supporters!

I keep reading people here saying NO ONE THOUGHT Obama was anti-war or going to bring change outside of "now a democrat is in power" some even said if anyone thought different they were an uneducattyed idiot. So, I pointed out several people here seemed to hold those 'uneducated' beliefs

you are welcome

oh, so you mean you have no point?


ok, now thats clear, thanks!

my2hands

by the way... 99% of the world doesnt like war or support war, but would support a justifiable war or a neccesary war

Mutiny! he cried

RainDog wrote:

Go, Obama....I think.

Most of my posts in that thread are on the subject of Obama not being as anti-war as Kucinich, and you - in some effort to prove a point, I guess - call me out for somehow thinking Obama is completely anti-war; which, I might add, was the opposite of the point I was trying to make those many months ago. Swing and a miss.

When talking about Obama, yes - anti-war does kind of mean "only Iraq." Obama said as much back in 2002; that he is not anti-war, only anti-dumb-war like the invasion of Iraq. Sounds like good judgement - not flowers and peace pipes.

And then you point out what he said in 2004 (which is relative anyway, because once a country has been invaded, there are only so many courses of action left - but that might be too complicated for you). Are you trying to prove those that said "only an idiot would think Obama was completley anti-war" correct? Because you are pointing out evidence that, yes, he campaigned as a pretty center left candidate that wasn't completely anti-war.

Did I even reply in that thread???

might be too complicated for me? it's funny you question my 'petty comments' comment then act like a dick.

Obama is against the war except in 2004 when he said the only real difference between his and Bush's pisitiin was who was in a position to execute

Or earlier this year when he told a conservative radio show the main reason he was opposed to invading Iraq was because we weren't finished in Afghanistan yet, I guess he forgot how dumb a war he felt it was or he was pandering

Mutiny! he cried

my2hands wrote:

oh, so you mean you have no point?


ok, now thats clear, thanks!

Actually I do, my point is despite what many here say now loooots of people had these beliefs about Obama and saying 'well, no one really thought that anyway!' is just an attempt at avoiding you were fooled by 'just another politician'

unifiedscene

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

Actually I do, my point is despite what many here say now loooots of people had these beliefs about Obama and saying 'well, no one really thought that anyway!' is just an attempt at avoiding you were fooled by 'just another politician'

Just because some people misinterpreted Obama's position does not mean that I personally was fooled by anyone.

my2hands

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

Actually I do, my point is despite what many here say now loooots of people had these beliefs about Obama and saying 'well, no one really thought that anyway!' is just an attempt at avoiding you were fooled by 'just another politician'

who thought Obama was completely "anti-war"?

no one is completely anti-war, NO ONE


obama haters are a funny bunch... he isnt even in office yet and they are scrambling to make shit up and create issues where there are none

Mutiny! he cried

unifiedscene wrote:

Just because some people misinterpreted Obama's position does not mean that I personally was fooled by anyone.

you sure do love absolutes, don't you?

people here said NO ONE thought these things

so I pointed out were many did

now instead of saying 'they were wrong' (as you just did) they say "oh, by anti-war we meant just Iraq!" "by most progressive president in history we meant he will be a centrist!" (what was Clinton, then???)

Maybe YOU didn't think these things but my point is not about YOU or ALL obama supporters.

Mutiny! he cried

my2hands wrote:

who thought Obama was completely "anti-war"?

no one is completely anti-war, NO ONE


obama haters are a funny bunch... he isnt even in office yet and they are scrambling to make shit up and create issues where there are none

what did I make up??

just like by 'most progressive president in history' what you meant was 'a centrist, just like Bill Clinton'

my2hands

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

now instead of saying 'they were wrong' (as you just did) they say "oh, by anti-war we meant just Iraq!" "by most progressive president in history we meant he will be a centrist!" (what was Clinton, then???)

the man has not even taken office yet for gods sake... so how can you lablem him a "centrist"?

the man doesnt want an echo chamber for a cabinet like Bush had... i think that is a brilliant move and a PROGRESSIVE move to actually have debate and discussion with dissenting views in his cabinet

you call it centrist, i call it fresh air


the far right calls him a "socialist" and the far left call him a "centrist"... so make up your mind already...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

my2hands wrote:

who thought Obama was completely "anti-war"?

no one is completely anti-war, NO ONE


obama haters are a funny bunch... he isnt even in office yet and they are scrambling to make shit up and create issues where there are none

If NO ONE believes this, where did the term itself come from? Who ever got this o so super duper crazy idea?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=obama+anti+war&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

clearly NO ONE had this silly idea to begin with

all just haters...

I see more excuses than anything

my2hands

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

If NO ONE believes this, where did the term itself come from? Who ever got this o so super duper crazy idea?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=obama+anti+war&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

clearly NO ONE had this silly idea to begin with

all just haters...

I see more excuses than anything

the man just said yesterday he was going to end the iraq war in 16 monhts just as promised

so whats the beef?


you guys are like a broken record playing a bad song

digster

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

christ, for the last fucking time this is not about Obama but his supporters!

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

Actually I do, my point is despite what many here say now loooots of people had these beliefs about Obama and saying 'well, no one really thought that anyway!' is just an attempt at avoiding you were fooled by 'just another politician'

You can't even keep who you're criticizing in order, or what you're criticizing them about. You say it has nothing to do with Obama but with his supporters, but then you call him 'just another politician.' This is what I have trouble with, I can't even see clearly what you're trying to say currently. Let me put forward this set of possible facts and see if you'd agree with me that they're truthful.


1. The majority of those that voted for Obama were in the so-called American 'moderate.'
2. His policy positions and voting record reveal him to be a moderate Democrat, leaning towards the center on some issues and towards the left on other issues.
3. On foreign policy, specificially in regards to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, he opposed the war in Iraq, considering it needless, and supported the war in Afghanistan.
4. He has proposed a gradual troop withdrawl from Iraq, not an immediate withdrawl, and at no point has promised to do so.

If you agree with all these, and I feel they are all pretty verifiable, then I guess I'm not really sure what the criticism is. Maybe I'm just needlessly confused.

digster

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

If NO ONE believes this, where did the term itself come from? Who ever got this o so super duper crazy idea?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=obama+anti+war&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

clearly NO ONE had this silly idea to begin with

all just haters...

I see more excuses than anything

My goodness.

A section of the text of that famous 2002 speech, re-printed verbatim, with some seemingly necessary emphasis:

"Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."


Obama is completely anti-war? How much clearer does this need to be for people? Even the speech, and corresponding Google search you used as your evidence proves the opposing point.

unifiedscene

Mutiny! he cried wrote:

you sure do love absolutes, don't you?

people here said NO ONE thought these things

so I pointed out were many did

now instead of saying 'they were wrong' (as you just did) they say "oh, by anti-war we meant just Iraq!" "by most progressive president in history we meant he will be a centrist!" (what was Clinton, then???)

Maybe YOU didn't think these things but my point is not about YOU or ALL obama supporters.

Then what is your point? That some Obama supporters were deluded? That's definitely headline news. In other news, so were some of those that supported McCain, Nader, Paul, Clinton, Dubya, Kerry, Dole, Bush Sr., Reagan, Dukakis, Carter... shall I keep going?