August 6, 1945
EvilToasterElf
Posts: 1,119
This Sunday commemorates the day the first atomic bomb was dropped 2 hours north of my present habitation.
But, the real reasons for dropping the bomb are still under debate. Whether it was truly to bring about the capitulation of Japan, half-motivated by revenge over Pearl Harbor, tortured POW's, and heavy marine losses at Iwa Jima and Okinowa
or...
That it was the first shot in the Cold War, aimed specifically at curtailling Stalin's lust for more territory in Western Europe, and the desire to keep communism from "threatening" capitalism across the planet.
There is plenty of evidence on both sides, but the evidence we don't hear is that Japan was already in the process of capitulation, that terms of surrender were already offered by Hirohito, but the Japanese terms included keeping the Emperor, and was not part of the terms of our "unconditional surrender."
However, even after the two atomic bombs, even after the unconditional surrender, Hirohito was allowed to retain his position until 1989.
It's a topic worthy of discussion, considering that these bombs have led to the policy of going to pre-emptive war to prevent others from acquiring the same bomb.
But, the real reasons for dropping the bomb are still under debate. Whether it was truly to bring about the capitulation of Japan, half-motivated by revenge over Pearl Harbor, tortured POW's, and heavy marine losses at Iwa Jima and Okinowa
or...
That it was the first shot in the Cold War, aimed specifically at curtailling Stalin's lust for more territory in Western Europe, and the desire to keep communism from "threatening" capitalism across the planet.
There is plenty of evidence on both sides, but the evidence we don't hear is that Japan was already in the process of capitulation, that terms of surrender were already offered by Hirohito, but the Japanese terms included keeping the Emperor, and was not part of the terms of our "unconditional surrender."
However, even after the two atomic bombs, even after the unconditional surrender, Hirohito was allowed to retain his position until 1989.
It's a topic worthy of discussion, considering that these bombs have led to the policy of going to pre-emptive war to prevent others from acquiring the same bomb.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
~Ron Burgundy
Millions?
Literally?
Why would that have been necessary? Do you know anything about this topic? The Japanese army had been largely destroyed, to the point that Japan no longer had a functioning army to speak of. The dropping of the A-bombs was simply a way of the U.S shouting to the world that it was now a major superpower, stepping in on the coat-tails of the Russians who had been responsible for defeating the German army and who had made the greatest sacrifice.
The strategical gains the U.S had made during the years 1939 - 1941 when bribing Britain into giving up large chunks of it's terrirtory all over the world in return for supplying Britain with food also helped.
The day that America dropped the first atomic bomb on Japan was the day America made it's Faustian pact with the Devil.
I'd say it makes for interesting discussion. The bomb was used to help end the war and it did. Are there secondary effects from the bomb dropping...there probably are.
also, if there is evidence we don't hear about..how did you learn of it? not trying to be an ass with that question.
Other countries are nuclear. Every country with a nuke should be monitored but there are certain countries that I don't want to have a nuke. The reason the nuke worked so well is b/c no one else had it. Now a lot of people have them and I don't think that the countries that have them currently would use them
your right!!!!! and anyone at war with the united states should drop nukes if they got'em in new york, l.a. and d.c. to avoid a long drawn out ground war as well. right????????
I don't think it worked very well. But I've visited a lot of Japanese websites dedicated to it. I've also seen a dozen documentaries on it. Pretty disgusting stuff.
This brings up the more interesting question of "is terrorism justifiable in any way?" I personally don't think so, but obviously many people do...interestingly enough, many of those same people condemn things like the 9/11 attacks as not justifiable in any way.
I think you have to delve more deeply into the first part of your post and define what "terrorism" is...Personally I feel it is a tactic to instill fear in people that can be done by threat of violence alone. To me that is a terrorist act...ie..threatening to blow up abortion clinics.
it was disgusting stuff, no arguments. But it did help end the war / cement the japanese defeat depending on your opinion of necessity and possibly with fewer casualties...we'll NEVER know the answer to that one, so let's not even go down that road.
Dropping a A-Bomb does not create fear?
I think it created worldwide fear...I am just pointing out that terrorism is very subjective, many see it in different ways..
I think there is no bigger threat and no bigger fear than an A-bomb and regardless of it's inital use any country that would currently use it should be deemed criminals.....all these weapons should be abolished.....
I think the same fear can be instilled from both threats and terrorist acts, but they're still very different things. It's pretty much accepted that terrorism involves violent action against civilians to scare them and influence their government. The threat of violence and actually carrying it out are very different. It's like when you get really mad at someone and say "oh I could kill him!", even though you'd never actually do it.
So while you talk about weeping for Japanese and their families, I, and millions and billions of other Chinese around the world today, THANK the US for doing what it took to bring those atrocities to an end.
More
And of course, the inevitable Wiki
I've been convicted of uttering death threats for that. I said it to my sister when I was a teenager. I also gave a guy that worked for my dad a friendly push and was charged and convicted for assault.
I don't do that shit anymore but I see it happening all the time. What kind of standard do we have? Is it right or wrong?
"I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions." - George Carlin
I've read survivor testimony. Also there is a video on google that provides some. Here it is Google Video: Hiroshima (BBC)
Has there ever been a story on the pilots who actually dropped the bombs? I would like to know how they dealt with that afterwards.
I think the point still stands that the Japanese army was pretty much done for at that time.
That video I linked above your post has testimony from the Enola Gay crew aswell.
Take a look at the big picture--Hiroshima and Nagasaki alone are not why the Japanese surrendered, and as hindsight has proven, it was a necessary event of war in a series of such events.
The japanese population was very much like that of modern-day extremists in the sense that they were willing to sacrifice themselves and their children at the behest of their government. They took patriotism to a whole new level. If anything, the kamikaze pilots were the WWII equivalent of today's suicide bombers, the only difference being that they weren't also using children to carry out those suicide attacks.
So, the fact that the japanese military was virtually non-existent does not mean that an immeasurable amount of lives could not have been lost on both sides had the US decided to invade.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825