seriously ... lets shift the debate here ... people who still think this is some left wing conspiracy have to be left out of this discussion ... if they aren't willing to listen to ALL the information out there - we're wasting our time ...
climate change and the environment has become a top-tier issue all around the world - there is a change - let's build on that momentum and start making some definitive actions ...
it only cost me $250 to offset my entire emissions for last year ... the apartment i rent is on renewable power sources ... i have been increasing my locally grown diet significantly ...
OK, so you don't have confidence in their claims about the impact, fine, nothing is black and white but you agree on reducing pollution, so the cure we are agreed on, just not the diagnosis? end result same...
True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
seriously ... lets shift the debate here ... people who still think this is some left wing conspiracy have to be left out of this discussion ... if they aren't willing to listen to ALL the information out there - we're wasting our time ...
climate change and the environment has become a top-tier issue all around the world - there is a change - let's build on that momentum and start making some definitive actions ...
it only cost me $250 to offset my entire emissions for last year ... the apartment i rent is on renewable power sources ... i have been increasing my locally grown diet significantly ...
How much does it cost you every time you...um...pass gas?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment.
Can't say I disagree with that either... all in all I think we are in danger of violently agreeing
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
How much does it cost you every time you...um...pass gas?
Can anyone answer this? Is it carbon neutral....? I really ought to factor this in...
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Can anyone answer this? Is it carbon neutral....? I really ought to factor this in...
She said she had it down to where she was emission neutral, and that it cost her $250, so I was just thinking that everytime she farted, she was probably costing herself at least a couple of cents!
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
She said she had it down to where she was emission neutral, and that it cost her $250, so I was just thinking that everytime she farted, she was probably costing herself at least a couple of cents!
That locally sourced "organic" product (assumption) may be counter-productive on that front!!!
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Attempting to make an argument against global warming is just completely asinine. The facts are there. End of story.
Why anyone would be opposed to cleaning up our planet absolutely boggles my mind.
Those dear right wing politicians are denying global warming to protect their big business cronies who PROFIT off polluting our environment.
In addition, the right appeases their Evangelical base by denying global warming. The fundamentalists actually believe that the Earth is getting warmer because Jesus is coming (but that's a whole other show).
Oh half his life, a hand me down, wasted away
Of he fills it up, with the love, of a girl...
Attempting to make an argument against global warming is just completely asinine. The facts are there. End of story.
didn't the earth used to be far warmer than it currently is? you all can bow down to your alarmists theories all you want, but most people don't buy into them.
Attempting to make an argument against global warming is just completely asinine. The facts are there. End of story.
Why anyone would be opposed to cleaning up our planet absolutely boggles my mind.
Those dear right wing politicians are denying global warming to protect their big business cronies who PROFIT off polluting our environment.
In addition, the right appeases their Evangelical base by denying global warming. The fundamentalists actually believe that the Earth is getting warmer because Jesus is coming (but that's a whole other show).
yawn... why do you always return to the default argument that people are just holding a position because it is anti-american?
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
didn't the earth used to be far warmer than it currently is? you all can bow down to your alarmists theories all you want, but most people don't buy into them.
uhhh ... most people bought in a long time ago ... see my previous posts to determine which one of the ones you are that haven't ...
didn't the earth used to be far warmer than it currently is? you all can bow down to your alarmists theories all you want, but most people don't buy into them.
Maybe one day it was far warmer, but that was with no life on the planet. You want civilization to be wiped out? Continue polluting and treating the planet like it's yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
People are so easily misguided by the fact that we can do whatever we want to our planet and that'll be fine. WE belong to the Earth; the Earth does not belong to us. We must take care of it.
I disagree with that. There are scientists "in their field" who disagree with them as well. How are they allowed to do it?
You could take the reverse - that if you're not in their field, you can't logically agree with their findings, either.
Well, it's a good thing for me I have a degree in Biology/Biochemistry and have taken many, many environmental courses over the years...
"There is no other data they can study. They are looking a the tiniest of fractions of the data and that's all they have."
-Simply not true. Do some research.
"True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment."
-More convincing? We've all known the effects of pollution for many decades and any step is a baby step that takes years of political back and forth to get anything done. Hell, getting lead out of gasoline was no easy process.
I'm not sure how much more convincing you need. Countries all around the world are establishing committees to discuss a course of action, the overwhelming majority of top researching scientists from around the world believe this to be true, a good percentage our own government (dems and repubs) are starting to come around on this.
I think most of the world is convinced, I'm just not sure how others aren't.
I'm beginning to see how Aristotle felt in his day...
"True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment."
-More convincing? We've all known the effects of pollution for many decades and any step is a baby step that takes years of political back and forth to get anything done. Hell, getting lead out of gasoline was no easy process.
I'm not sure how much more convincing you need. Countries all around the world are establishing committees to discuss a course of action, the overwhelming majority of top researching scientists from around the world believe this to be true, a good percentage our own government (dems and repubs) are starting to come around on this.
I think most of the world is convinced, I'm just not sure how others aren't.
I'm beginning to see how Aristotle felt in his day...
Exactly. We've all known the effects of pollution for decades because it's demonstrable. Humans' impact on the climate is simply not. That's why we should stick to the concrete and easily seen in order to make our point instead of muddying the waters by claiming things that can not be proven.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
didn't the earth used to be far warmer than it currently is? you all can bow down to your alarmists theories all you want, but most people don't buy into them.
True. The earth was warmer at one time. It was also colder.
Historically the earth has gone through many climate changes. But these changes happened gradually over time OR due to some type of natural phenomenon (like a meteor). The rate at which our planet is warming is alarming and correlates with the start of the industrial revolution. In addition, there is a HOLE in the ozone.
Most scientists agree that when that meteor hit Earth it immediately generated a wave of toxic gases into the environment. These gases are what caused the drastic change in climate. Today, the toxic gases are not coming from a meteor crash, they are coming from us.
Global warming is not just an American problem. However, we seem to take it upon ourselves to "spread democracy" (oh brother). We should at the very least set an example of environmental responsibility. This is probably the most important issue we are facing today. There will be no terrorism, or taxes, or healthcare, or WMD, or anything if we don't have a planet to live on.
Where is the argument? Why even make one?! Is it so terrible to want to be environmentally responsible?
Oh half his life, a hand me down, wasted away
Of he fills it up, with the love, of a girl...
Look at it this way. What if a scientist studied one tenth of a second of your life and then made claims and predictions about the rest of your life. Those predictions might even come true, but there would be absolutely no confidence in them.
Comparing people of science to a gipsy lady at the carnival: brilliant.
I disagree with that. There are scientists "in their field" who disagree with them as well. How are they allowed to do it?
You could take the reverse - that if you're not in their field, you can't logically agree with their findings, either.
The report was produced by some 600 authors from 40 countries. Over 620 expert reviewers and a large number of government reviewers also participated. Representatives from 113 governments reviewed and revised the Summary line-by-line during the course of this week before adopting it and accepting the underlying report.
There is no other data they can study. They are looking a the tiniest of fractions of the data and that's all they have.
They can look at changes of the air, temperature etc by studying e.g. ice layers, they are just not looking at the last 5 minutes and the weather report.
We're at a point where denying human impact on global warming is like denying evolution. Sure there are those that disagree, but they'll be proven wrong and likely to be paid to disagree.
Miniscule? 257 years.. How old are you? Add to that the knowledge thay can derive from ice and trees and all what you wrote is ridiculous.
Comparing people of science to a gipsy lady at the carnival: brilliant.
The report was produced by some 600 authors from 40 countries. Over 620 expert reviewers and a large number of government reviewers also participated. Representatives from 113 governments reviewed and revised the Summary line-by-line during the course of this week before adopting it and accepting the underlying report.
They can look at changes of the air, temperature etc by studying e.g. ice layers, they are just not looking at the last 5 minutes and the weather report.
We're at a point where denying human impact on global warming is like denying evolution. Sure there are those that disagree, but they'll be proven wrong and likely to be paid to disagree.
257 years compared to billions of years of earth existence is miniscule. Even when you look at ice layers, it's still a fraction of the data.
The numbers of government and people doesn't do anything to convince me. There are idiots and people with agendas everywhere.
I believe in evolution...just not in evolution as creation.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
257 years compared to billions of years of earth existence is miniscule. Even when you look at ice layers, it's still a fraction of the data.
Thats your opinion and mine and the mayority of the scientific world is that you are wrong, they can extrapolate based on this data. Science is not what might be the case, it's what the evidence points at, researched, tested and peer reviewed and than you have facts, not opinions.
Maybe one day it was far warmer, but that was with no life on the planet. You want civilization to be wiped out? Continue polluting and treating the planet like it's yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
People are so easily misguided by the fact that we can do whatever we want to our planet and that'll be fine. WE belong to the Earth; the Earth does not belong to us. We must take care of it.
I disagree..its my earth and ill do what i see fit. Its here to benefit me, not for me to benefit the earth.
Thats your opinion and mine and the mayority of the scientific world is that you are wrong, they can extrapolate based on this data. Science is not what might be the case, it's what the evidence points at, researched, tested and peer reviewed and than you have facts, not opinions.
OK - so where is the control group? How do they know how the Earth's climate would have reacted without people and industrialization?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I disagree..its my earth and ill do what i see fit. Its here to benefit me, not for me to benefit the earth.
What a short sighted and egocentric idea. It's not your earth, if it is owned it's ours, and without it or without it being able to sustain us we're dead, see how you benefit from that.
OK - so where is the control group? How do they know how the Earth's climate would have reacted without people and industrialization?
They don't genius, or you know another earth like planet able to support life? They know how it was, how it changed and what changed it and we added the things that changed it.
They don't genius, or you know another earth like planet able to support life? They know how it was, how it changed and what changed it and we added the things that changed it.
Without a control group, they have no way of definitively knowing whether things that were added caused the change or whether the change would have occurred on its own.
There's no denying that the earth's climate has gone through many, many changes without man's assistance.
Now if the earth's climate had remained perfectly constant since the beginning of time, their assertions would be more compelling.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
climate change and the environment has become a top-tier issue all around the world - there is a change - let's build on that momentum and start making some definitive actions ...
it only cost me $250 to offset my entire emissions for last year ... the apartment i rent is on renewable power sources ... i have been increasing my locally grown diet significantly ...
True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
you know, I agree with you...:)
How much does it cost you every time you...um...pass gas?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Can't say I disagree with that either... all in all I think we are in danger of violently agreeing
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Shocking!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Can anyone answer this? Is it carbon neutral....? I really ought to factor this in...
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
She said she had it down to where she was emission neutral, and that it cost her $250, so I was just thinking that everytime she farted, she was probably costing herself at least a couple of cents!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
That locally sourced "organic" product (assumption) may be counter-productive on that front!!!
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Yikes!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Why anyone would be opposed to cleaning up our planet absolutely boggles my mind.
Those dear right wing politicians are denying global warming to protect their big business cronies who PROFIT off polluting our environment.
In addition, the right appeases their Evangelical base by denying global warming. The fundamentalists actually believe that the Earth is getting warmer because Jesus is coming (but that's a whole other show).
Of he fills it up, with the love, of a girl...
didn't the earth used to be far warmer than it currently is? you all can bow down to your alarmists theories all you want, but most people don't buy into them.
from my window to yours
yep global warming is purely an american thing
yawn... why do you always return to the default argument that people are just holding a position because it is anti-american?
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
la "defense" du jour...c'est facile.
from my window to yours
agreed... 100%
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
uhhh ... most people bought in a long time ago ... see my previous posts to determine which one of the ones you are that haven't ...
People are so easily misguided by the fact that we can do whatever we want to our planet and that'll be fine. WE belong to the Earth; the Earth does not belong to us. We must take care of it.
Well, it's a good thing for me I have a degree in Biology/Biochemistry and have taken many, many environmental courses over the years...
"There is no other data they can study. They are looking a the tiniest of fractions of the data and that's all they have."
-Simply not true. Do some research.
"True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment."
-More convincing? We've all known the effects of pollution for many decades and any step is a baby step that takes years of political back and forth to get anything done. Hell, getting lead out of gasoline was no easy process.
I'm not sure how much more convincing you need. Countries all around the world are establishing committees to discuss a course of action, the overwhelming majority of top researching scientists from around the world believe this to be true, a good percentage our own government (dems and repubs) are starting to come around on this.
I think most of the world is convinced, I'm just not sure how others aren't.
I'm beginning to see how Aristotle felt in his day...
Since you're "in the field" why don't you explain how the data that they have ISN'T just a fraction of the possible data since the earth began.
Exactly. We've all known the effects of pollution for decades because it's demonstrable. Humans' impact on the climate is simply not. That's why we should stick to the concrete and easily seen in order to make our point instead of muddying the waters by claiming things that can not be proven.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
True. The earth was warmer at one time. It was also colder.
Historically the earth has gone through many climate changes. But these changes happened gradually over time OR due to some type of natural phenomenon (like a meteor). The rate at which our planet is warming is alarming and correlates with the start of the industrial revolution. In addition, there is a HOLE in the ozone.
Most scientists agree that when that meteor hit Earth it immediately generated a wave of toxic gases into the environment. These gases are what caused the drastic change in climate. Today, the toxic gases are not coming from a meteor crash, they are coming from us.
Global warming is not just an American problem. However, we seem to take it upon ourselves to "spread democracy" (oh brother). We should at the very least set an example of environmental responsibility. This is probably the most important issue we are facing today. There will be no terrorism, or taxes, or healthcare, or WMD, or anything if we don't have a planet to live on.
Where is the argument? Why even make one?! Is it so terrible to want to be environmentally responsible?
Of he fills it up, with the love, of a girl...
We're at a point where denying human impact on global warming is like denying evolution. Sure there are those that disagree, but they'll be proven wrong and likely to be paid to disagree.
257 years compared to billions of years of earth existence is miniscule. Even when you look at ice layers, it's still a fraction of the data.
The numbers of government and people doesn't do anything to convince me. There are idiots and people with agendas everywhere.
I believe in evolution...just not in evolution as creation.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I disagree..its my earth and ill do what i see fit. Its here to benefit me, not for me to benefit the earth.
OK - so where is the control group? How do they know how the Earth's climate would have reacted without people and industrialization?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Without a control group, they have no way of definitively knowing whether things that were added caused the change or whether the change would have occurred on its own.
There's no denying that the earth's climate has gone through many, many changes without man's assistance.
Now if the earth's climate had remained perfectly constant since the beginning of time, their assertions would be more compelling.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.