Ok stop disputing (man's effect on) climate change

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  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    mca47 wrote:
    I just want to know the level of scientific education and knowledge people have on this board who throw out this bold claims.
    The majority of the scientific community, a collection of some of the smartest men and women on the earth who have done and actually UNDERSTAND science and the research, are all making these claims.
    I just don't know how you can throw out arbitrary "facts" about how this worldwide problem isn't existing.
    That would be like me telling Stephen Hawking that his theory on quantum physics is bullshit. Then again if I want him to be wrong, he will be wrong.

    Or this - scientist have only been keeping mildly accurate data for about the same time that parts of the world have become industrialized. They don't really have a way to compare to changes over that period of time against a set of conditions that did not include industrialization. Therefore, there is no control group. What if the earth had exhibited the exact same weather patterns and temperatures over the last 100 years or so even without industrialization? It just might have, because they can't study that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    UKDave wrote:
    So we ignore it until we have our whole life to study and it's too late?

    Genius argument that one :rolleyes: :D

    Yawn. I'm definitely not saying that. You just made it up for me.

    I am agreeing we should reduce pollution. I am just disagreeing about the level of confidence scientists could possibly have in their claims about the impact on climate change.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    know1 wrote:
    Look at it this way. What if a scientist studied one tenth of a second of your life and then made claims and predictions about the rest of your life. Those predictions might even come true, but there would be absolutely no confidence in them.
    Scientists have enough training, education, intelligence and research to be able to take an analysis and make an objective prediction in their field. Same with anyone else with that much experience...In Their Field. If you are not in the scienctific field, you cannot logically dismiss their findings "just because" you don't agree with it.
  • mca47
    mca47 Posts: 13,337
    know1 wrote:
    Look at it this way. What if a scientist studied one tenth of a second of your life and then made claims and predictions about the rest of your life. Those predictions might even come true, but there would be absolutely no confidence in them.

    Well, if that scientist has the means to study one tenth of a second my life but could figure out a good percentage of the rest from other data and information, and if the worldwide community agrees with it then I might consider what they had to say as being somewhat accurate.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Scientists have enough training, education, intelligence and research to be able to take an analysis and make an objective prediction in their field. Same with anyone else with that much experience...In Their Field. If you are not in the scienctific field, you cannot logically dismiss their findings "just because" you don't agree with it.

    I disagree with that. There are scientists "in their field" who disagree with them as well. How are they allowed to do it?

    You could take the reverse - that if you're not in their field, you can't logically agree with their findings, either.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    mca47 wrote:
    Well, if that scientist has the means to study one tenth of a second my life but could figure out a good percentage of the rest from other data and information, and if the worldwide community agrees with it then I might consider what they had to say as being somewhat accurate.

    There is no other data they can study. They are looking a the tiniest of fractions of the data and that's all they have.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    I've got to say it, yet again...:D

    god is real and climate change/global warming is a myth....
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    inmytree wrote:
    I've got to say it, yet again...:D

    god is real and climate change/global warming is a myth....

    If so, those would both be very good things.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • sapperskunk
    sapperskunk Posts: 684
    Drew263 wrote:
    Polar Ice Caps are melting on Mars.

    Is that b/c of our SUVs also?


    interesting.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    know1 wrote:
    Yawn. I'm definitely not saying that. You just made it up for me.

    I am agreeing we should reduce pollution. I am just disagreeing about the level of confidence scientists could possibly have in their claims about the impact on climate change.

    OK, so you don't have confidence in their claims about the impact, fine, nothing is black and white but you agree on reducing pollution, so the cure we are agreed on, just not the diagnosis? end result same... ;)
    Astoria Crew
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
    Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
    Katowice, Wembley 07
    SBE, Manchester, O2 09
    Hyde Park 10
    Manchester 1&2 12
    This is just g'bye for now...
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    seriously ... lets shift the debate here ... people who still think this is some left wing conspiracy have to be left out of this discussion ... if they aren't willing to listen to ALL the information out there - we're wasting our time ...

    climate change and the environment has become a top-tier issue all around the world - there is a change - let's build on that momentum and start making some definitive actions ...

    it only cost me $250 to offset my entire emissions for last year ... the apartment i rent is on renewable power sources ... i have been increasing my locally grown diet significantly ...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    UKDave wrote:
    OK, so you don't have confidence in their claims about the impact, fine, nothing is black and white but you agree on reducing pollution, so the cure we are agreed on, just not the diagnosis? end result same... ;)

    True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    If so, those would both be very good things.

    you know, I agree with you...:)
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    polaris wrote:
    seriously ... lets shift the debate here ... people who still think this is some left wing conspiracy have to be left out of this discussion ... if they aren't willing to listen to ALL the information out there - we're wasting our time ...

    climate change and the environment has become a top-tier issue all around the world - there is a change - let's build on that momentum and start making some definitive actions ...

    it only cost me $250 to offset my entire emissions for last year ... the apartment i rent is on renewable power sources ... i have been increasing my locally grown diet significantly ...

    How much does it cost you every time you...um...pass gas? :D
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    know1 wrote:
    True. My other point is that by not focusing so much on supposed climate change and instead focusing on things that are much more evident such as more specific and demonstrable effects of pollution, we can be much more convincing when trying to improve the environment.

    Can't say I disagree with that either... all in all I think we are in danger of violently agreeing ;):D
    Astoria Crew
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
    Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
    Katowice, Wembley 07
    SBE, Manchester, O2 09
    Hyde Park 10
    Manchester 1&2 12
    This is just g'bye for now...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    UKDave wrote:
    Can't say I disagree with that either... all in all I think we are in danger of violently agreeing ;):D

    Shocking! ;)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    know1 wrote:
    How much does it cost you every time you...um...pass gas? :D

    Can anyone answer this? Is it carbon neutral....? I really ought to factor this in... ;):D
    Astoria Crew
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
    Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
    Katowice, Wembley 07
    SBE, Manchester, O2 09
    Hyde Park 10
    Manchester 1&2 12
    This is just g'bye for now...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    UKDave wrote:
    Can anyone answer this? Is it carbon neutral....? I really ought to factor this in... ;):D

    She said she had it down to where she was emission neutral, and that it cost her $250, so I was just thinking that everytime she farted, she was probably costing herself at least a couple of cents! ;)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    know1 wrote:
    She said she had it down to where she was emission neutral, and that it cost her $250, so I was just thinking that everytime she farted, she was probably costing herself at least a couple of cents! ;)

    That locally sourced "organic" product (assumption) may be counter-productive on that front!!! :o
    Astoria Crew
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
    Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
    Katowice, Wembley 07
    SBE, Manchester, O2 09
    Hyde Park 10
    Manchester 1&2 12
    This is just g'bye for now...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    UKDave wrote:
    That locally sourced "organic" product (assumption) may be counter-productive on that front!!! :o

    Yikes!
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.

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