Discard their personal beliefs about race and religion if you'd like, but Hitler military ideas were actually pretty brilliant.
If the Japanese hadn't gotten the U.S. involved, Hitler would have certainly taken all of Europe. Then it would've come down to the U.S. as the last defense. I daresay we'd be speaking German today if the U.S. hadn't gotten involved when it did.
But I'll leave that for the war buffs.
There's no way the U.S. would ever have "spoken German." Europe, maybe, but even that's debatable. Much of Hitler's stratagy relied on "blitzkrieg" tactics and keeping his front line troops hopped up on meth. Tactics like that look impressive - downright terrifying - in the beginning, but can't be maintained.
And Russia had as much, if not more, to do with Germany's defeat as the Americans. Not to mention the hell continental Europe gave 'em. Hitler's plan would never have panned out in the long term - under any circumstances, really.
There's no way the U.S. would ever have "spoken German." Europe, maybe, but even that's debatable. Much of Hitler's stratagy relied on "blitzkrieg" tactics and keeping his front line troops hopped up on meth. Tactics like that look impressive - downright terrifying - in the beginning, but can't be maintained.
And Russia had as much, if not more, to do with Germany's defeat as the Americans. Not to mention the hell continental Europe gave 'em. Hitler's plan would never have panned out in the long term - under any circumstances, really.
Maybe if the right butterfly in South America had farted at the right time on May 22, 1941, things would have been different........but joking aside, there are probable paths that Adolf could have ventured down that changed the outcome....some may be far-fetched, but anything can happen in warfare.
Possible paths:
1) Operation Sea Lion: actually invade England instead of listening to Goering about how an air force can conquer a country....not listening to Goering is far-fetched.
2) Blockade England via U-boats and increased spending on naval surface assests. Following the sinking of the KMS Bismarck, Hitler basically grounded his surface fleet. He probably did not trust the Naval leaders because they were not steadfast Nazi party members....at least some of them. The main surviving Naval leader was acceptable to the Allies as leader of the country at the time of surrender, and he was later cleared of any war crimes.
3) Keep peace with Russia longer......invading Russia while still hammering at Great Britain was way beyond stupid. He really hated Stalin.
4) Abandon the Blitzkrieg when you do attack Russia. The fate of Charles XII of Sweden and Napoleon should have forewarned the Nazis about the tatics needed to invade and conquer Russia.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
3) Keep peace with Russia longer......invading Russia while still hammering at Great Britain was way beyond stupid. He really hated Stalin.
Well, you can't continually demonize communists without doing something about them, right?
You obviously know quite a bit about WWII - plenty more than I do. My point, and I think you've detailed it here, is that Hitler and his strategies weren't nearly as brilliant as they're often made out to be. In fact, in hindsight they actually seem kind of stupid and infeasible. Terrifying, but infeasible.
Well, you can't continually demonize communists without doing something about them, right?
You obviously know quite a bit about WWII - plenty more than I do. My point, and I think you've detailed it here, is that Hitler and his strategies weren't nearly as brilliant as they're often made out to be. In fact, in hindsight they actually seem kind of stupid and infeasible. Terrifying, but infeasible.
Well, they did have a signed non-agression pact with the demon communists...and you did divide Poland up with them.
He was a mad genius......and the mad part won out. The use of the Blitzkrieg had its place....just the vast landmass of Russia wasn't it. Its initial was especially wise considering the fact that a lot of thinkers and leaders assumed that the next "great war" was going to be just like WWI.....trenchs and stalemates.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Well, they did have a signed non-agression pact with the demon communists...and you did divide Poland up with them.
He was a mad genius......and the mad part won out. The use of the Blitzkrieg had its place....just the vast landmass of Russia wasn't it. Its initial was especially wise considering the fact that a lot of thinkers and leaders assumed that the next "great war" was going to be just like WWI.....trenchs and stalemates.
Oh, most definitely. But I have a hard time applying the term "genius," in a military sense, to someone incapable of adapting - like a one hit wonder who keeps trying to rewrite the same song.
Now, on the social/propaganda front, the guy was something else, and I'd certainly call him a genius there. I can't even understand German, but I understand Hitler's motivating influence when I see that old footage.
Oh, most definitely. But I have a hard time applying the term "genius," in a military sense, to someone incapable of adapting - like a one hit wonder who keeps trying to rewrite the same song.
Now, on the social/propaganda front, the guy was something else, and I'd certainly call him a genius there. I can't even understand German, but I understand Hitler's motivating influence when I see that old footage.
I think I heard somewhere that he used a different voice for his speeches and that his actual voice sounded ... funny, at least not powerful. I think people found some recordings or something.
well, i guess my perspective is not a political one... and it wasn't intended to bring up political issues. it was more a philosophical one.... i mean, how can we truly dare say that if someone killed a loved one of ours we wouldn't want to pay them back? i guess that Yeah, Yeah, Yeah song comes to mind... "if you had all the power in the world would you save it? no we cannot know for sure or what we'd really do with all your power" it's easy to say now but when it comes to it who's to know for sure that we'll "turn the other cheek?"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Oh, most definitely. But I have a hard time applying the term "genius," in a military sense, to someone incapable of adapting - like a one hit wonder who keeps trying to rewrite the same song.
Now, on the social/propaganda front, the guy was something else, and I'd certainly call him a genius there. I can't even understand German, but I understand Hitler's motivating influence when I see that old footage.
The "genius" tag is for overall efforts, as the "mad" tag since he was mad as a hatter convention. In the realm of warfare, adaption is the keystone to success, for example some of the Polish forces fighting the Blitzkrieg did so from horseback.....horses against tanks??? The Poles did not adapt to the lessons learned from WWI nor did they get a practice run in the Spanish Civil War like the Nazis. His forces did have a run of success....then the madness trumped the genius, and it came down like a house of cards....but not overnight.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Discard their personal beliefs about race and religion if you'd like, but Hitler military ideas were actually pretty brilliant.
If the Japanese hadn't gotten the U.S. involved, Hitler would have certainly taken all of Europe. Then it would've come down to the U.S. as the last defense. I daresay we'd be speaking German today if the U.S. hadn't gotten involved when it did.
But I'll leave that for the war buffs.
man, im sorry... i bet that still disappoints you. you were so close to the dream... no homos, no minorities, now jews, just a world full of lily-white christians. maybe next time eh?
yeah, id have executed hitler. along with many, many other people.
Execute him? no...just get Prescott Bush to stop funding him, and he'd run out of gas soon enough.
Such a small little world of evil, murderous politicians it is.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
man, im sorry... i bet that still disappoints you. you were so close to the dream... no homos, no minorities, now jews, just a world full of lily-white christians. maybe next time eh?
yeah, id have executed hitler. along with many, many other people.
It must be nice to have so much power over other people's lives.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I think a case like that, I'd have no problem losing my humanity, and dipping him in steak juices, then turning Micheal Vicks dogs on him after they hadn't been fed in a few days....but then that would be cruel and unusual punishment for the dogs, so instead I'd shoot him in the liver and watch him die painfully and somewhat slowly, it takes 8 to 20 minutes I believe. I wouldn't consider this a government sanctioned execution, just murder, and if lived back then I'd probably have no problem spending the rest of my life in prison for doing it....but now reality is setting in, and I'd leave it to someone else...if someone else did it, then I'd wouldn't have a problem in that case, but I doubt I could realistic do it, though I never had a problem with the idea of using my M16 if warranted when I was in the Army...guess this isn't as easy a question as my personal feelings on Hitler.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
"If only the public would understand! If only the public were more intelligent, which in this case at least would mean more human! If only the statement I repeat so often could be understood! There are no accidents; everything is the result of law. All phenomena are a succession of causes and effects. The criminal is the result of all that went before him and all that surrounds him. Like every other mortal, he is a subject for pity and not for hatred. If society is not safe while he is at large, he must be confined and kept under guard and observation. He must be kept until he is safe and a favorable environment found for him. If he will never be safe for society, he should never be released. He must not be humiliated, made to suffer unduly, despised or harried. He must be helped if he can be helped. This should be the second, if not the first object of his confinement."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"If only the public would understand! If only the public were more intelligent, which in this case at least would mean more human! If only the statement I repeat so often could be understood! There are no accidents; everything is the result of law. All phenomena are a succession of causes and effects. The criminal is the result of all that went before him and all that surrounds him. Like every other mortal, he is a subject for pity and not for hatred. If society is not safe while he is at large, he must be confined and kept under guard and observation. He must be kept until he is safe and a favorable environment found for him. If he will never be safe for society, he should never be released. He must not be humiliated, made to suffer unduly, despised or harried. He must be helped if he can be helped. This should be the second, if not the first object of his confinement."
so thats a no then to executing hitler is it ryan?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"If only the public would understand! If only the public were more intelligent, which in this case at least would mean more human! If only the statement I repeat so often could be understood! There are no accidents; everything is the result of law. All phenomena are a succession of causes and effects. The criminal is the result of all that went before him and all that surrounds him. Like every other mortal, he is a subject for pity and not for hatred. If society is not safe while he is at large, he must be confined and kept under guard and observation. He must be kept until he is safe and a favorable environment found for him. If he will never be safe for society, he should never be released. He must not be humiliated, made to suffer unduly, despised or harried. He must be helped if he can be helped. This should be the second, if not the first object of his confinement."
So I will go on about Hitler. He kept the population down. Good thing. His scientists came up with revolutionary stuff. Good thing. He went a little too far to control the world. Bad thing. He wanted to keep Germany, German. Good thing. No I don't think he should have been put to death if he was caught. Life in prison would be good enough.
Keeping the population down via systematic murder is good?
If another such leader rises to power, will you serve-up your family to help keep the population down?
For personal reasons (revenge for my grandparents), I would torture him to a slow death.
i would say i wouldn't do that... but i dunno... if the situation were at hand, considering how i can lose it sometimes... without making any sense of anything, i'd probably do the same. God forbid.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
i would say i wouldn't do that... but i dunno... if the situation were at hand, considering how i can lose it sometimes... without making any sense of anything, i'd probably do the same. God forbid.
I am usually a very gentle fella, but, growing up the son of a holocaust survivor, I would risk my life for revenge!
so thats a no then to executing hitler is it ryan?
Correct!
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
No obviously you don't understand sarcastic disgust when you see it.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
And Russia had as much, if not more, to do with Germany's defeat as the Americans. Not to mention the hell continental Europe gave 'em. Hitler's plan would never have panned out in the long term - under any circumstances, really.
Possible paths:
1) Operation Sea Lion: actually invade England instead of listening to Goering about how an air force can conquer a country....not listening to Goering is far-fetched.
2) Blockade England via U-boats and increased spending on naval surface assests. Following the sinking of the KMS Bismarck, Hitler basically grounded his surface fleet. He probably did not trust the Naval leaders because they were not steadfast Nazi party members....at least some of them. The main surviving Naval leader was acceptable to the Allies as leader of the country at the time of surrender, and he was later cleared of any war crimes.
3) Keep peace with Russia longer......invading Russia while still hammering at Great Britain was way beyond stupid. He really hated Stalin.
4) Abandon the Blitzkrieg when you do attack Russia. The fate of Charles XII of Sweden and Napoleon should have forewarned the Nazis about the tatics needed to invade and conquer Russia.
You obviously know quite a bit about WWII - plenty more than I do. My point, and I think you've detailed it here, is that Hitler and his strategies weren't nearly as brilliant as they're often made out to be. In fact, in hindsight they actually seem kind of stupid and infeasible. Terrifying, but infeasible.
He was a mad genius......and the mad part won out. The use of the Blitzkrieg had its place....just the vast landmass of Russia wasn't it. Its initial was especially wise considering the fact that a lot of thinkers and leaders assumed that the next "great war" was going to be just like WWI.....trenchs and stalemates.
"Hallowed are the Ori"
http://www.freewebs.com/alnkirk - it ain't shabby!
Now, on the social/propaganda front, the guy was something else, and I'd certainly call him a genius there. I can't even understand German, but I understand Hitler's motivating influence when I see that old footage.
I think I heard somewhere that he used a different voice for his speeches and that his actual voice sounded ... funny, at least not powerful. I think people found some recordings or something.
Anyway, he was a propaganda master.
naděje umírá poslední
man, im sorry... i bet that still disappoints you. you were so close to the dream... no homos, no minorities, now jews, just a world full of lily-white christians. maybe next time eh?
yeah, id have executed hitler. along with many, many other people.
Such a small little world of evil, murderous politicians it is.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
It must be nice to have so much power over other people's lives.
-Enoch Powell
if i had so much power over other people's lives, i wouldnt be so pissed off at how fucking stupid most of you are
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
I wouldn't. I think it's hypocritical and wrong. I'd lock him up in solitary as secure as possible.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
so thats a no then to executing hitler is it ryan?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Skinner again?
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For personal reasons (revenge for my grandparents), I would torture him to a slow death.
Keeping the population down via systematic murder is good?
If another such leader rises to power, will you serve-up your family to help keep the population down?
I am usually a very gentle fella, but, growing up the son of a holocaust survivor, I would risk my life for revenge!
Correct!
Darrow