Jonestown
FinsburyParkCarrots
Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
I know in November it'll be thirty years since whatever happened out there in Guyana, happened. I'm wondering if anyone here or their families were in California in the seventies and remember Jim Jones and the People's Temple, before the move to the jungle. Also, I'm interested in reading as many theories on the events of November 18th 1978 as you'd like to present.
Oh, before we start. It wasn't Kool-Aid. It was Flavor-Aid.
Oh, before we start. It wasn't Kool-Aid. It was Flavor-Aid.
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knitting chain-mail balaclavas in preparation for Armageddon?.. either that or at Helen's hoose building an Anderson shelter
Seriously, a friend of a friend was one of the peeps to actually drink the stuff.
Ah, shit. How horrible.
"on bended knee is no way to be free"
and
the most important thing in this world is CHOICE.
sorry, no conspirary theories behind it all. I saw an hour long show about it on History Channel a few years ago and with all the witnesses that were there I believe there is little to be answered.
That last recording that Jones made certainly seemed pretty unequivocal, to be sure. Not that I could stomach listening to any of it, after the sounds of the apparent suicides actually began. Horrific. I felt sick and switched off.
However, there were needle marks found in many bodies on discovery, and lots of bent syringes that suggested a struggle.
There are some odd anomalies concerning the death count in the first few days. It went up from around 400 to 900. The excuses given were that the Guyanese officials couldn't count (although they had to turn over each body and puncture it in the abdomen, to stop it from exploding in the heat), or that the bodies were piled five deep (although there's no photographic evidence of this). Rapid gun fire was heard by people fleeing the scene. There will always be unanswered questions.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1115145/index.htm
Very interesting... the History Channel didn't bring up any of these points (not the best source of information, I know). I guess there are unanswered questions.
Yeah, I remember the people's temple. I saw some concerts in the building in the 70's too. On Geary st...with stained glass windows...
(I think one band I saw there was the Clash. And I vividly remember some chick in clear plastic pants...
Of course, this was after the cult was outta there.
Oh, sorry...Flavor-Aid
I'm guessing we haven't seen the last of Doomsday Churches in this country. I have a feeling they are out there... and we won't know about them until they have acted.
That is something I question about that whole, Second Coming and Judgement Day and all that Last Days stuff. 'FOLLOWERS' will follow someone who says those days are here. Followers who gleefully believe they will be saved and me and the Jews will spend our eternities in the Lake of Fire. It makes it easy for some nutcase Jim Jones to convince people... who are looking for something.
...
How about people quit following religious leaders and take their own paths towards God? Lead yourself... let your Bible (or other Holy scripture) lead you. Not some guy that... who knows... might like nuzzling Man-ass.
Hail, Hail!!!
SAN FRANCISCO (CNN) -- Twenty years after the world was shocked by the mass murder-suicide in the supposedly utopian community known as Jonestown, the questions linger: How and why did 913 people die? Some believe answers may lie in more than 5,000 pages of information the U.S. government has kept secret.
"Twenty years later, it would be nice to know what went down," said J. Gordon Melton, founder and director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion.
The full article: http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/18/jonestown.anniv.01/
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
The second coming and Judgement Day are in the Bible...along with warning signs to watch for that indicate how close we are to the end days. The Bible makes it very clear that we are to listen to the Word of God on these matters...and NOT some cult leader, etc.
The catch is that many crazy people intertwine half truths and convincing lies about these things, which makes it easy to convince people who don't have faith in the Biblical text that something may be happening NOW.
God said that NO MAN, not even the angels in heaven, would know the time of his return.
The key is to make sure that the information being given to us is information that is Biblically sound. That's why we have the Bible, and should study it. It allows us to weed out the truth from the flavor-aid...so to speak.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
I'm 100% skeptical of the "official" Jonestown story.
Check out this video:
Evidence of Revision, Part 5
Fast forward through the end of the RFK bit if you want, but it is amazing stuff as well.
Highlights are basicaly:
Jim Jones had very apparent CIA..intelligence connections.
Jonestown had a state of the art hospital
Jonestown had enough psychedelic..psychotropic drugs on hand to keep over 100,000 people drugged up for some three years straight ... yet only had 1000 residence.
The residence of Jonestown were nearly all black.
The operators of Jonestown were all white.
The residence of Jonestown were mostly pulled off the welfare rolls and other government programs.
Many of the children were orphans taken from CPS.
Between 70 and 80% of the victims were found with needle wounds either in their upper arms or above the scapula in their backs. Over 100 victims were found with gunshot wounds.
The bodies had been stacked 2 to 3 people deep, with drag marks all over the place. They did not just "fall down dead". They were stacked up in piles.
Zbigniew Brizinsky sent down an order to have the identification tags removed from all the bodies, and to have the bodies stacked in large piles in the sun. This made it impossible to identify the bodies, and the maggots & rot from stacking in piles made it imposible to autopsy the bodies or perform toxicology reports to determine what..how many drugs they had in their systems.
The "State Department official" that accompanied Congressman Ryan on his trip to investigate Jonestown was actualy an undercover CIA agent.
This man dissapeared from the runway just before the congressman and those fleeing Jonestown were gunned down by a Jonestown mercinary.
This same man (CIA guy, Dwyer) claims he never went back to jonestown.
The last recording of Jim Jones has Jones himself yelling for his men to "get Dwyer out of here! Dwyer, get him out! Not Ohiju, i said DWYER, DWY-ER ... Get him out of here before something happens to him!"
The distress call that aletered the world of Jonestown came over a radio ... and the only working radio in the area? Belonged to? ... DWYER ... and the channel this signal went out over? A "hidden" CIA channel!
Jim Jones was one of, if not the, last person to die in Jonestown ... by gunshot, shortly after midnight, and shortly before the distress signal went out.
Why would Jim Jones be so concerned about a visiting State Department official's saftey, when he allegedly had the congressman this man was traveling with murdered?
Wouldn't it make more since if both Jones and this Dwyer fellow were CIA?
Watch the video.
ITS FUCKED UP!
Any comments?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I would assume estimate vs actual count. Large crowds (especially if bodies were piled on top of each other) are hard to count. Obviously it's a bigger scale, but think about when they try to estimate huge concerts. "Woodstock had between 250K and 600K". That's a massive gap.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I think this is very informative.
i.e. as per wikipedia:
"Guyanese Coroner Dr. Leslie C. Mootoo, determined that all but three of the people in Jonestown had been murdered: 80-90% had been injected with poison, while the remainder were shot or strangled."
odd...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Here is a snippet of a better documentary:
Jim Jones, the CIA Operative
From "Evidence of Revision, Part 5"
THE KIDS AREN'T ALL RIGHT:
1. 287 children died in the Jonestown massacre.
2. According to the Guyanese court which had jurisdiction in the matter, all but three of the deaths in Jonestown were ruled to be the result of murder, not suicide. Source: The New York Times, 12/12/78
3. In spite of this fact, the US news media persists in erroneously calling these deaths a "mass suicide."
4. Many of the children who died in Jonestown were wards of the State of California who had been turned over to Jim Jones and other Temple members by California judges.
5. It was illegal for these children to be removed from California yet, according to the House Foreign Affairs Committee which investigated the matter, no California official ever requested a check into the welfare or whereabouts of these children.
- Michael S. McCready
There was an excellent documentary on this last year on PBS. It was basically interviews with pretty much everone alive who had any connection to Jim Jones' church. They also indicated that the people who didn't drink the Kool-Aid by choice were forced to drink it at gun point.
http://www.theconspiracy.us/9408/0027.html