Darfur
FinsburyParkCarrots
Posts: 12,223
I'm going to juxtapose three links, here, without any political agenda, but to ask you to read them and tell me what you think.
I'm playing around with the formula of the Moving Train thread starter: rather than starting a thread, by making a shock-jock argument, or alternatively linking and quoting from a news item, I'm putting up three links, and asking you what you make of the relationship between these links. Don't try to presume an agenda from me. I'm interested in you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4936284.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-09-22T191908Z_01_N22202663_RTRUKOC_0_US-SUDAN-UN-USA.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C3-politicsNews-3
Fill in some dots. What's going on?
I'm playing around with the formula of the Moving Train thread starter: rather than starting a thread, by making a shock-jock argument, or alternatively linking and quoting from a news item, I'm putting up three links, and asking you what you make of the relationship between these links. Don't try to presume an agenda from me. I'm interested in you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4936284.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-09-22T191908Z_01_N22202663_RTRUKOC_0_US-SUDAN-UN-USA.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C3-politicsNews-3
Fill in some dots. What's going on?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
What is happening in Sudan was happening long before 9/11 & bin Laden was on the lips of the western world. The same people, with the same religious faiths have been killing and dying before an uncaring world for years.
I would ask why now? What has changed, surely not the conflict, surely not the deaths. People have been pointing to this region for years screaming genocide with no reaction from the nations that could have, should have step in and not let the situation get this far. The world chose to turn a blind eye.
It's not hard to connect the dots, one only has to look at UN resolution 1556 to complete this circle. It's not about bin Laden, it's not about terrorists, it's not about stopping the genocide occurring in that region.
I feel like there are parts of this story that aren't being told.
lemme guess? is that your agenda?
There are plenty of other threads for that kind of rubbish.
It seems like the conflict began as the islam v christian civil war. I remember at school in the late 90's you'd see a few people talking about the rounding up of christians and such, but mostly it was not talked about. Now it seems it's partly over land and resources and partly over the Arabization of the region.
http://www.usafricaonline.com/sudanusafrica.html
This may come off worse than i intend it to, but it seems like now this is the Trendy* cause for people to talk about. If you think back to the late 90's when a lot of this stuff in Darfur escalated the cause was Free Tibet and everyone had their focus on that b/c we had concerts about it and entertainers talking about it...now the entertainers are talking about Darfur AND RIGHTFULLY SO. Darfur is an example of how tough it is to make the call to step in EARLY and to right the wrongs. This is a situation that could have been stopped early but i think the politicians were scared to do anything.
*there are many people for whom both was / is not a trendy cause, if this cause is legit for you, don't be offended b/c i'm not talking about you*
here's a link to the above resolution http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N04/446/02/PDF/N0444602.pdf?OpenElement
it's a pdf
I think one way to look at it is that if the west intervenes in a muslim affair it can be manipulated to look like those countries are going after islam instead of the genocide. I would hope most people would be smart enough to realize that if the EU and US go in and take action it's not b/c they are muslim, rather it is people who are committing genocide and happen to be of the muslim religion. The sad part is, is that this appears to be muslim v muslim violence in addition to the muslim christian violence.
Southern Sudan votes in 2011 on a refendum to decide if they want independence (part of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement in 05)...but there's no way in my opinion that Bashir will let that happen and they will just go to war again with the south. He signed to buy time.
As for the Darfur Peace Agreement "forced" upon the rebel groups and signed in May, it was signed only by one rebel group (Minni Minnawi's faction, the SLA), this group has now splintered and part of the SLA has joined with Khartoum in the new offensive against the "unsigned." Bombs are dropping now...again
Mira Sorvino was on the Hill testifying before the HIRC last week and described a particulary disturbing practice of babies being thrown into boiling gasoline (not sure how gas boils, I figured it would just explode...but I'm no rocket scientist). It's really nasty stuff...kill the men, rape then women, kill the babies, throw the bodies in the wells to make the water unsafe, steal the belongings, burn the town to the ground, move on to the next town. The ineffectiveness of the UN and USG to stop it (as Bashir just ignores all resolutions...yea, that's some resolve we got goin' on) just gives Khartoum more time to finish what they started.
Humanitarian Aid workers are targets (12 killed in the past couple of months). Access is getting more and more limited since the fresh fighting.
This link, http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/sudan.html has good map/sat imagery on Darfur....destroyed villages, humanitarian efforts, etc.
In a week or so, there should be a 60 Minutes piece on Darfur as they just got out a couple weeks ago...
Man, this situation is so sick and sad. Bashir has proved he is incapable of governing humanely. That's why he should go. He is a sick fuck.
Too easy, I don't accept that it's a "muslim" thing. Look at where Sudan lies. To me, if it were a muslim thing. Egypt is right there, always has been. Look around the region, look at the countries that border the Red Sea, the Islamic religion has always been strong in area. Most of southern Sudan was subjected to the Christian religion by the British and other Euro countries. Let's be clear, though that it did not mean that blacks were accepted as Christians in the Euro eyes.
I'll be equally blunt and offer an up front apology to whomever's feelings is hurt. The world basically said, fuck em, its Africa for God's sake. Christians dying in Africa (a nun, a priest, a peace corp worker, etc.) while trying to spread the so-called word, went uncaring almost with the afterthought of "they shouldn't have been there". Honestly, how often have you heard any Pope condemning Christian deaths in Africa. Look how long it took Israel to recognize the Ethiopian Jews. Point is, it's Africa, it's about a natural resource rich country and continent, not a bunch of blacks regardless of their religious afflilation. Darfur is just a drop in the bucket.
Saying it's trendy to now look at Darfur because of entertainers, is like saying a person became aware of the abortion issue because of Pearl Jam's viewpoints, not. The UN has sent troops to the Sudan, southern Sudan, the oil region, not Darfur. The UN doesn't acknowledge that genocide is occurring in Darfur, it's only classified as a civil conflict. Like Bosnia, Armenia and Kozavo.
Yet, out of the blue, another communiqué materializes from binLaden with "specific" implications of Sudan, in particular, Darfur comes into possession of the intelligence community. Now, all of sudden we have a "terrorist" problem in the Darfur region which is being influenced by binLaden that warrants "world attention"; not the fact that the same events which have been ongoing for more than 20 years plus a micro-seconded ago was called "genocide" and completely ignored.
Now its important that the "Arab" world assist in this latest terrorist's threat.
Come on, Egypt borders with Sudan, Egypt, who has "for that region" a strong military. If Darfur had posed any threat don't you think they would have responded by now? Evidently not without some incentitive, so now Egypt gets U.S. nuclear technology if it agrees to lead the effort in sending troops into Darfur. How convenient.
No, to me this one is clearly about oil. The people are incidential. The disease is real.
i posted a link to interview from a man from the sudan who was kicked out of his country and he talked about what it is. It is a fight over resources, but it also as an arabization appeal to it, so he says and I'll take his word since he's from there.
i agree, people don't care that much b/c it is africa adn the world did say fuck off to africa, for the most part.
Maybe trendy was the wrong word, but it seems like this issue has been around for a while and with the recent recognition (thank God for the recognition that stuff was going on) I hope they can get this settled but it is def the cause du jour, and i'm glad that it got recognition. But I never remember hearing about this too much back when tibet needed to be free (which it did, but i'm sure you know people that saw 7 years in tibet or went to a tibetan freedom concert and had no idea where tibet was or why it needed to be free, yet had the bumper stickers.) Also, the UN is an impotent scared organization and this situation is just further proof that it can't do anything or doesn't have the cajone's to do anything.
i agree that oil and resources play a role, but i'm also not naive enough to think that there is no other factor playing (i may have misread what you were saying, if i did; sorry.)
And the Sudan is run by opiate-crazed Islamists so let them kill their local enemies - instead of us, while we ponder at length over an excuse to blow the shit out of them with some arbitrary back-door excuse...'
- The Elusive Mr Hunt, U.N Ambassador for Honesty.
Exactly. Oil is an issue, but there is oil in the North, too (just a whole lot more in the South). Tribal issues abound. The return of refugees and IDPs to the South is gonna be rough. We're talking like 40 years of civil war (with a ten year break from '72 to '83...I could be a little off on the dates. Generations are displaced...people born and living in IDP camps...and they are coming back to no infrastructure whatsoever in the South (well, a little, but an airstrip here and there and a dirt road that washes out every rainy season doesn't count for much). the govt. of Khartoum just loooves that. More instability to take advantage of.
Oh, and oil is not really an issue in Darfur.
PRESS RELEASE
AI Index: AFR 54/056/2006 (Public)
News Service No: 245
21 September 2006
Sudan: Extension of AU peacekeeping mission only first step
Reacting to today’s news that the Sudanese government has agreed to an extension of the African Union peacekeeping mission in Sudan, Amnesty International said that today’s development is a first step towards the protection of civilians in Darfur but must be followed by the deployment of UN peacekeepers.
“The people of Darfur need UN peacekeepers now,” said Irene Khan, Secretary General of Amnesty International. “Sudanese government agreement to an extension of AMIS’ mandate is not a major concession. It is the absolute minimum of what is required to protect the people of Darfur and must be replaced, as soon as possible, with a strong UN peacekeeping force.”
The African Union Peace and Security Council today issued a statement expressing the organization's intention to renew the mandate of the African Union Mission in Sudan (AMIS) until 31 December 2006. It also reiterated its support for a transition to a UN peacekeeping force.
“The Sudanese government has been playing political games for far too long – games that have cost the lives of women, men and children in Darfur,” said Irene Khan. “The international community cannot accept a compromise when it comes to human rights. The rights of civilians in Darfur cannot be bargained away in the interest of political expediency.”
“The extension of AMIS’ mandate in no way absolves the international community of maintaining pressure on Sudan to accept UN peacekeepers.”
For further information regarding Amnesty International’s work on Darfur, please see: http://web.amnesty.org/pages/sdn-index-eng
www.amnesty.org.uk