Ghosts Of Abu Ghraib
Vedderlution_Baby
Posts: 2,535
Anyone else watching this? It's on HBO if anyone wants to watch.
It's pretty fucking disgusting
It's pretty fucking disgusting
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It's so fucked up it's hard to actually get your head around it.
VB ... I hear you, what kind explanation was that???
P.S. Cant stand that Yoo guy either.
What!? I don't have HBO anymore but you're saying this woman made the case that it's natural to smile when kneeling over a dead body????
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Reason for smiling - I always smile in photos. or something to that effect
no one is apologists from these disturbed American soldiers. they have made some horrible choices and have been punished accordingly.
Sorry man BS...are you watching this? This was clearly known from at least Rumsfeld down.
The explanation the woman gave for kneeling inches away from a dead body with a smile and a thumbs up sign was this:
She and the photographer was told that the man had died from a heart attack. So on a whim they decided to snap a picture. The woman kneeled down and gave the thumbs up, which she said she had gotten from the children running around Iraq. She then said that she smiled because it was natural, and that's just what everyone did in pictures, they smiled.
And it's pretty clear that this went past a handful of soldiers. One of the soldiers who witnessed the abuse went to a higher ranking officer and reported it to him. The response that the officer gave to him was that he shouldn't have even been over there and to just stay away.
I also found it disgusting that the man who turned in the pictures feared for his well-being when his name, which was never supposed to be released anyway, was used on national television while he was in the mess hall "ten feet away from the t.v."
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'd go to Abu Ghraib about a couple times a week, and I never saw any if this kind of shit.
Otherwise I would have said something.
So to say everyone was in on it, is just ignorant.
Crimes happened. I've served in the marines, they happened because they were allowed to happen.
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Encouraged.
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Didn't these things happen in the middle of the night by a graveyard crew?
Maybe that's why a lot of people, to include myself didn't know that shit was happening.
I don't know how it works in the Marines, or when you were in. But never did my superiors suggest or encourage to me to commit war crimes or crimes against humanity. My soldiers never got that talk from me either.
So I don't know where you're getting this from.
We're dealing with a scenario of the right amount of worthless Reserve/Guard soldiers, placed in an important role and without appropriate supervision/leadership.
If you read the transcripts this was taking place alongside the "USDA-approved" interrogation manners being carried out by the US secret service. As was the mindless occupation itself.
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We're talking about the SOLDIERS who commited crimes at Abu Ghraib. We're not talking about civilians nor are we talking about the occupation or the War for that matter.
Unless it was too long for you to remember, these soldiers had the responsibility to defy unlawful orders given in regards to the handling of detainees.
If no official direct orders were given to mistreat prisoners, then the blame is put squarely on the sadistic troops of that night shift who thought it would be cool or fun to stack naked iraqis.
Don't try to blanket this over a quarter million soldiers in Iraq.
I'm not trying to blanket anything.
I KNOW as an indiviual and a MARINE what i was ORDERED was the word from above. Things mays get grey in that interpretation from the President, but not from a strong President or Secretary of Defense. Those soldiers are doing their time, but at least part of that time is a result from weakness from above.
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So if there is a strong President or SOD, no war crimes are commited?
So when that Staff Sergeant raped and killed that little girl in Kosovo during the Clinton Adminstration, that reflected on their policy directed towards Kosovars?
I guess that's the grey area you were talking about.
I think you're being a propogandist in this argument. This isn't about propaganda.
The abuses in Iraq aren't limited to Abu Gharib and you know it.
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I never said fucked up shit doesn't happen out there. I've heard things.
But to say those disgusting instances is okay by us, "normalized" and frequent is just ridiculous.
I would love to see the SOP on stacking Iraqi's. Maybe you could dig that up for me?
And to blame the president and "loosely interpeted" policy is ridiculous.
If I rolled out the gate, and just started shooting every Iraqi I saw, would you blame the President or his Administration? Or would you blame the sick actions of one individual?
That goes for a mob mentality too.
I'm not advocating mob mentality. I am advocating justice. This Abu Gharaib incident can be looked at as just one of those symptoms of an idea gone horribly wrong. And it is.
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That's vague for me man, you're gonna have to elaborate.
"idea gone horribly wrong"???
LOL.
yeah.
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I'm tired man, if you want, we can finish this up tomorrow.
Later bud.
Did you watch this documentary?
No.