continuing and expanding the war in afghanistan-will you support it?
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
Under a Obama administration, it seems according to obama himself, he "will continue the war on terror with vigor", and will take troops from Iraq and move them to Afghanistan.
As an antiwar person, this deeply troubles me and suggests what I always pointed out, Obama and mccain werent all that different. Both were going to be starting wars.
How is a Obama war any less illegal or immoral than a Bush one?
If you were a soldier in Iraq, and had come home and gone back to iraq 4 or 5 times, would you be happy or pissed off that obama, wants to bring you back home...and then send you to afghanistan.
I dont wish to demean our troops, and if it comes off this way it isnt meant this way, but lets face it, if the troops are stretched as thin as they are reported to be, and if the multiple reports of my above statements about multiple stop losses are true, are these troops even effective? They have done their duty, but to call them back up, AGAIN seems absurd.
One thing must be made clear to obama the second he takes office. He needs to pull troops from Iraq and afghanistan and not start any war with iran. And I think there will be hell to pay if these demands arent met
As an antiwar person, this deeply troubles me and suggests what I always pointed out, Obama and mccain werent all that different. Both were going to be starting wars.
How is a Obama war any less illegal or immoral than a Bush one?
If you were a soldier in Iraq, and had come home and gone back to iraq 4 or 5 times, would you be happy or pissed off that obama, wants to bring you back home...and then send you to afghanistan.
I dont wish to demean our troops, and if it comes off this way it isnt meant this way, but lets face it, if the troops are stretched as thin as they are reported to be, and if the multiple reports of my above statements about multiple stop losses are true, are these troops even effective? They have done their duty, but to call them back up, AGAIN seems absurd.
One thing must be made clear to obama the second he takes office. He needs to pull troops from Iraq and afghanistan and not start any war with iran. And I think there will be hell to pay if these demands arent met
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He's a Democrat.
I hate to say that but we cant just leave. Then all of our soldiers died for nothing.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
oh i get it. your right. democrats are flawless...
except for their lies and incompetence! Elected in 2006 on a promise to end the war, ask Reid and Pelosi what they have done to end the war! As troops arte still in iraq, I dont think they have done much. And their approval ratings prove it. They have no backbone. And are just as culpable as bush. They lied to us.
A little D next to your name makes little difference in the scheme of it all.
Again, how is continuing and expanding a war in afghanistan any different than wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Obviously we would be fighting in one less country, but still, how?
Its how I always said, democrats arent against the war. They are against the tactics bush used. its tactical and strategic differences. Obama thinks he can fight the war better and more effectively. but he is still pledged to fight it, or rather send others to fight it.
War is war.
one wonders if he would be for sasha and malia being sent to fight the war.
one doesnt even have to consider the question, because it would never happen.
are you gonna sign up and fight? I am not. And I would hate to see friends of mine fight. so if we arent gonna fight, you are effectively okay with sending other people to fight and die in a war.
thats wrong in any context and situation.
no one should ever be sent to fight a war. ever.
Wil obama change the military requirements, so rich people cant dodge the draft? Or institute a draft? That to me would be fairer than people saying "yeah I support the war" but not actually fighting in it.
Real people are dying, and as I said, malia and sasha or michelle aint gonna sign up. So why does Obama have the right to effectively play with others lives.
He refused to suggest he would end the war quickly.
how hard is it, after all that has happened to end a war a majority of americans believe is wrong, shouldnt have been fought, isnt worth the price, and want troops out sooner rather than later...
obviously its tough, considering obama never promised anything.
But I will support an effort to put an end to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and to find bin laden and crew. But that effort has to come with the leadership of a clear mission, and honest progress reports. If an Obama administration can't do that, then get our troops out of there as well.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I guess that makes me not anti-war, then.
take a gander at the u.s. history of warfare.
I am sure there are many students of history on this board.
when has an american war ever not bombed villages or killed scores of innocents?
Thats what war is.
Thats my whole point. Obama, Kerry, Edwards, Clinton and everyone else suggests that war can be fought differently than Bush has fought it. While that may be true, it wont be different as well.
Remember it was Johnson who gave us and prolonged the Vietnam war. He was a dem.
Tactics may change, but ultimately, is that bomb headed to kill civilians in iraq any different if it came at the orders of Bush or Obama? It isnt and thats the whole point of my post.
Its fine to want to find and hunt down Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. But at what cost. How many more soldiers and innocents have to die? How many more bombs dropped?
At what point is enough enough.
I could never look into a kids eye and say "I am sending your mom and dad to possibly die in a war". Maybe that makes me a wimp or a wierdo or a hippie.
reguardless its a standard I pride myself on
It seems every politician in washington is willing to look the kid in the face and say that.
once again, I ask, will Malia and Sasha and Michelle fight?
If its such a noble cause, shouldnt obama make his family serve?
your in a bind my friend. At a debate, it was asked of every dem candidate. "if you had a clear shot at osama bin laden and could kill him, but would kill innocent civilians in the process, would you do it"? EVERY CANDIDATE answered yes, even obama.
The only no vote: Kucinich.
Who said I was a Democrat or even voted for one.
Look it's obvious that you can't stand Obama; and I could care less.
But let's be clear
Iraq had nothing to do with 911, they did not have WMD's, and they were not a threat to the USA
Bush's war was immoral and criminal. We had NO BUSINESS sending our troops to IRAQ.
Now.
Provided that Afghanistan is proven to be harboring terrorists like Bin Laden and proven to be a stronghold for Queda...and unlike IRAQ...have terrorists involved with 911
Do you not think that The USA should step in and do something about that?
if americans were honest about fighting the war on terror - they'd look at themselves in the mirror first ...
How many civillians died in WW1 and WWII?
Were those wars unjust?
Look.
War isn't pretty...War is horrific
But if going into the Afghanistan means that we are going after and capturing the fuckers that killed thousands of Americans on 911...YES, I support it.
You can't "win" in Afghanistan and Iraq. Setting up puppet governments that the people don't support, while killing and displacing tens of thousands is not what ends terror. To justify the deaths of thousands of civilians by some lame remark like "War is horrible" while enjoying the freedom of doing what you want while thousands others die is simply wrong. Capturing the people who did 9/11 is one thing, but killing thousands of more people in order to do so is horrible. If we learned one thing from 9/11 it should have been how to treat other countries, their people, the value of lives, etc... and we didn't learn anything. In fact, all we're doing now is justifying the exact things we were attacked for...
the war on afghanistan ended up being a war on the taliban - a regime the US helped put in place ... there has been no meaningful progress in deconstructing al qaeda - if anything, it's only gotten worse ... in the meantime - innocent people die ...
while approximately 3,000 people died on sep. 11 ... over 1 million innocent lives have been lost in this so called effort to capture the fuckers ... america's response to 9/11 was emotional as expected but as well all know whether it's dealing with anything ... that emotional response usually is followed by irrational decisions ... it's been over 7 years - it's time to rethink ...
You mean all those hijackers from Saudi Arabia and Egypt?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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All of this for 1 man and his crew? seems a bit over the top.
edit: besides, the best way to fight the Taliban and al-quaeda is to attack their funding-the opium trade. they get something like 10% of all the money made from opium sales, something like $100,000,000 a year-around that.
A very simple way to take them down would be to simply buy the opium directly from the farmers, cutting out the warlords that are secretly funding the Taliban.
I see where you're coming from; it's basically an absolutist stance. I think the war in Iraq was wrong and the war in Afghanistan was handled poorly. A "war" on Al Qaeda cannot be waged in one country, something President-elect Obama seems to understand. And in the long run, it's far more important to change attitudes towards America than it is to kill Al Qaeda lieutenants. That being said, violent force will have to be used. It's simply how things are.
I wish I could subscribe to the notions of many of my favorite poets, songwriters and thinkers and believe that "love is all we need", etc. (and I don't mean to be insulting your position with platitudes), but I'm not seeing it. I don't see (practically) anything in an absolute manner. And you're taking an absolute stand, and I'm generally wary of any absolutist position.
The stand "war is never the answer" is absolutist.
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http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
When the world at large quits asking us to play Cop and handles their own shit, then maybe we can begin in earnest to solve the problems we face here at home.We have become the proverbial Big Brother that every punk kid runs to when they either start shit they shouldn't have or when they are bullied, which is the only time I agree with our troops being sent to stand idly by while innocents are raped and murdered(UN)
BTW have YOU signed up for the selective service?Until you have served in that capacity for your country it would be wise to consider those that have and are dying to grant you the PRIVILEDGE to question?
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http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14