Survey of 6,000 active duty soldiers reveals anger about war
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
A poll of 6,000 active duty soldiers by several agencies the other day, despite a blackout of media coverage revealed that our soldiers are exactly in line with the american people about the war. The majority of the 6,000 are against the war, most dont think bush sending more troops makes any sense at all, and most want the troops to come home.
This is a bad sign. When the people who are fighting the war, start questioning it, and protesting it, then we have fraggings and such incidents. Although I dont think such things are good, they are inevitable when things like this happen, things like sending troops to die in iraq with out proper equipment and ttraining, and then sending troops to die in iraq and having those same soldiers say the war is complete crap and not worth fighting.
Lets end this goddamn war.
I would love to hear from those on this board who think the war is still winnable and that the war is still good.
How do you respond to this post and my other posts?
If the majority of americans are against the war
The majority of Iraqis are against the war
And the majority of soldiers are against the war,
then why are you still supporting this illegal and immoral war?
Published:
Dec. 29, 2006
Down on the war
Poll: More troops unhappy with Bush’s course in Iraq
By Robert Hodierne
Senior managing editor
The American military — once a staunch supporter of President Bush and the Iraq war — has grown in creasingly pessimistic about chances for victory.
For the first time, more troops disapprove of the president’s han dling of the war than approve of it. Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, ac cording to the 2006 Military Times Poll.
When the military was feeling most optimistic about the war — in 2004 — 83 percent of poll re spondents thought success in Iraq was likely. This year, that number has shrunk to 50 percent.
Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The president’s approval rating among the military is only slight ly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bush’s handling of the war. While ap proval of the president’s war lead ership has slumped, his overall approval remains high among the military.
Just as telling, in this year’s poll only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.
Professor David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Mil itary Organization at the Univer sity of Maryland, was not sur prised by the changing attitude within the military.
“They’re seeing more casualties and fatalities and less progress,” Segal said.
He added, “Part of what we’re seeing is a recognition that the in telligence that led to the war was wrong.”
Whatever war plan the presi dent comes up with later this month, it likely will have the re placement of American troops with Iraqis as its ultimate goal. The military is not optimistic that will happen soon. Only about one in five service members said that large numbers of American troops can be replaced within the next two years. More than one-third think it will take more than five years. And more than half think the U.S. will have to stay in Iraq more than five years to achieve its goals.
Almost half of those responding think we need more troops in Iraq than we have there now. A surpris ing 13 percent said we should have no troops there. As for Afghanistan force levels, 39 per cent think we need more troops there. But while they want more troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, nearly three-quarters of the re spondents think today’s military is stretched too thin to be effective.
The mail survey, conducted Nov. 13 through Dec. 22, is the fourth annual gauge of active-duty mili tary subscribers to the Military Times newspapers. The results should not be read as representa tive of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.
Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.
The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis. The margin of error on this year’s poll is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
While approval of Bush’s han dling of the war has plunged, ap proval for his overall performance as president remains high at 52 percent. While that is down from his high of 71 percent in 2004, it is still far above the approval rat ings of the general population, where that number has fallen into the 30s.
While Bush fared well overall, his political party didn’t. In the three previous polls, nearly 60 percent of the respondents identi fied themselves as Republicans, which is about double the popula tion as a whole. But in this year’s poll, only 46 percent of the mili tary respondents said they were Republicans. However, there was not a big gain in those identifying themselves as Democrats — a fig ure that consistently hovers around 16 percent. The big gain came among people who said they were independents.
Similarly, when asked to de scribe their political views on a scale from very conservative to very liberal, there was a slight shift from the conservative end of the spectrum to the middle or moderate range. Liberals within the military are still a rare breed, with less than 10 percent of re spondents describing themselves that way.
Seeing media bias
Segal was not surprised that the military support for the war and the president’s handling of it had slumped. He said he believes that military opinion often mir rors that of the civilian popula tion, even though it might lag in time. He added, “[The military] will always be more pro-military and pro-war than the civilians. That’s why they are in this line of work.”
The poll asked, “How do you think each of these groups view the military?” Respondents over whelmingly said civilians have a favorable impression of the mili tary (86 percent). They even thought politicians look favorably on the military (57 percent). But they are convinced the media hate them — only 39 percent of mili tary respondents said they think the media have a favorable view of the troops.
The poll also asked if the senior military leadership, President Bush, civilian military leadership and Congress have their best in terests at heart.
Almost two-thirds (63 percent) of those surveyed said the senior military leadership has the best interests of the troops at heart. And though they don’t think much of the way he’s handling the war, 48 percent said the same about President Bush. But they take a dim view of civilian military lead ership — only 32 percent said they think it has their best inter ests at heart. And only 23 percent think Congress is looking out for them.
Despite concerns early in the war about equipment shortages, 58 percent said they believe they are supplied with the best possi ble weapons and equipment.
While President Bush always portrays the war in Iraq as part of the larger war on terrorism, many in the military are not convinced. The respondents were split evenly — 47 percent both ways — on whether the Iraq war is part of the war on terrorism. The rest had no opinion.
On many questions in the poll, some respondents said they didn’t have an opinion or declined to an swer. That number was typically in the 10 percent range.
But on questions about the president and on war strategy, that number reached 20 percent and higher. Segal said he was surprised the percentage refus ing to offer an opinion wasn’t larger.
“There is a strong strain in mili tary culture not to criticize the commander in chief,” he said.
One contentious area of military life in the past year has been the role religion should play. Some troops have complained that they feel pressure to attend religious services. Others have complained that chaplains and superior offi cers have tried to convert them. Half of the poll respondents said that at least once a month, they attend official military gather ings, other than meals and chapel services, that began with a prayer. But 80 percent said they feel free to practice and express their religion within the military.
heres the key part:
It also found that only 38 percent of the troops think there should be more troops in Iraq than there are now -- in other words, only 38 percent support an escalation. By contrast, 39 percent of respondents think there should be the same or less troops there.
This is a bad sign. When the people who are fighting the war, start questioning it, and protesting it, then we have fraggings and such incidents. Although I dont think such things are good, they are inevitable when things like this happen, things like sending troops to die in iraq with out proper equipment and ttraining, and then sending troops to die in iraq and having those same soldiers say the war is complete crap and not worth fighting.
Lets end this goddamn war.
I would love to hear from those on this board who think the war is still winnable and that the war is still good.
How do you respond to this post and my other posts?
If the majority of americans are against the war
The majority of Iraqis are against the war
And the majority of soldiers are against the war,
then why are you still supporting this illegal and immoral war?
Published:
Dec. 29, 2006
Down on the war
Poll: More troops unhappy with Bush’s course in Iraq
By Robert Hodierne
Senior managing editor
The American military — once a staunch supporter of President Bush and the Iraq war — has grown in creasingly pessimistic about chances for victory.
For the first time, more troops disapprove of the president’s han dling of the war than approve of it. Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, ac cording to the 2006 Military Times Poll.
When the military was feeling most optimistic about the war — in 2004 — 83 percent of poll re spondents thought success in Iraq was likely. This year, that number has shrunk to 50 percent.
Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The president’s approval rating among the military is only slight ly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bush’s handling of the war. While ap proval of the president’s war lead ership has slumped, his overall approval remains high among the military.
Just as telling, in this year’s poll only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.
Professor David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Mil itary Organization at the Univer sity of Maryland, was not sur prised by the changing attitude within the military.
“They’re seeing more casualties and fatalities and less progress,” Segal said.
He added, “Part of what we’re seeing is a recognition that the in telligence that led to the war was wrong.”
Whatever war plan the presi dent comes up with later this month, it likely will have the re placement of American troops with Iraqis as its ultimate goal. The military is not optimistic that will happen soon. Only about one in five service members said that large numbers of American troops can be replaced within the next two years. More than one-third think it will take more than five years. And more than half think the U.S. will have to stay in Iraq more than five years to achieve its goals.
Almost half of those responding think we need more troops in Iraq than we have there now. A surpris ing 13 percent said we should have no troops there. As for Afghanistan force levels, 39 per cent think we need more troops there. But while they want more troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, nearly three-quarters of the re spondents think today’s military is stretched too thin to be effective.
The mail survey, conducted Nov. 13 through Dec. 22, is the fourth annual gauge of active-duty mili tary subscribers to the Military Times newspapers. The results should not be read as representa tive of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.
Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.
The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis. The margin of error on this year’s poll is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
While approval of Bush’s han dling of the war has plunged, ap proval for his overall performance as president remains high at 52 percent. While that is down from his high of 71 percent in 2004, it is still far above the approval rat ings of the general population, where that number has fallen into the 30s.
While Bush fared well overall, his political party didn’t. In the three previous polls, nearly 60 percent of the respondents identi fied themselves as Republicans, which is about double the popula tion as a whole. But in this year’s poll, only 46 percent of the mili tary respondents said they were Republicans. However, there was not a big gain in those identifying themselves as Democrats — a fig ure that consistently hovers around 16 percent. The big gain came among people who said they were independents.
Similarly, when asked to de scribe their political views on a scale from very conservative to very liberal, there was a slight shift from the conservative end of the spectrum to the middle or moderate range. Liberals within the military are still a rare breed, with less than 10 percent of re spondents describing themselves that way.
Seeing media bias
Segal was not surprised that the military support for the war and the president’s handling of it had slumped. He said he believes that military opinion often mir rors that of the civilian popula tion, even though it might lag in time. He added, “[The military] will always be more pro-military and pro-war than the civilians. That’s why they are in this line of work.”
The poll asked, “How do you think each of these groups view the military?” Respondents over whelmingly said civilians have a favorable impression of the mili tary (86 percent). They even thought politicians look favorably on the military (57 percent). But they are convinced the media hate them — only 39 percent of mili tary respondents said they think the media have a favorable view of the troops.
The poll also asked if the senior military leadership, President Bush, civilian military leadership and Congress have their best in terests at heart.
Almost two-thirds (63 percent) of those surveyed said the senior military leadership has the best interests of the troops at heart. And though they don’t think much of the way he’s handling the war, 48 percent said the same about President Bush. But they take a dim view of civilian military lead ership — only 32 percent said they think it has their best inter ests at heart. And only 23 percent think Congress is looking out for them.
Despite concerns early in the war about equipment shortages, 58 percent said they believe they are supplied with the best possi ble weapons and equipment.
While President Bush always portrays the war in Iraq as part of the larger war on terrorism, many in the military are not convinced. The respondents were split evenly — 47 percent both ways — on whether the Iraq war is part of the war on terrorism. The rest had no opinion.
On many questions in the poll, some respondents said they didn’t have an opinion or declined to an swer. That number was typically in the 10 percent range.
But on questions about the president and on war strategy, that number reached 20 percent and higher. Segal said he was surprised the percentage refus ing to offer an opinion wasn’t larger.
“There is a strong strain in mili tary culture not to criticize the commander in chief,” he said.
One contentious area of military life in the past year has been the role religion should play. Some troops have complained that they feel pressure to attend religious services. Others have complained that chaplains and superior offi cers have tried to convert them. Half of the poll respondents said that at least once a month, they attend official military gather ings, other than meals and chapel services, that began with a prayer. But 80 percent said they feel free to practice and express their religion within the military.
heres the key part:
It also found that only 38 percent of the troops think there should be more troops in Iraq than there are now -- in other words, only 38 percent support an escalation. By contrast, 39 percent of respondents think there should be the same or less troops there.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
In other news, ol' Bushie wants to send more troops over there to serve as cannon fodder. It's hard to not be angry about this when you think about how he couldn't even be bothered to show up for his National Guard gig in Alabama.
oh well, I guess the information in the article posted can be ignored...
move on, nothing to see here, "freedom" is on the march....
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Kind of funny how Cindy Sheehan is a household name, but Casey Sheehan isn't? Something to think about maybe.
A military survey is fuckin ridiculous, that's the dumbest shit I ever saw. If you fuckin caught me on a bad day in Iraq I would've told you the most crazy left wing opinion on the planet.
um...are you saying that once a person joins the military, they can't have an opinion...?
wow, that's messed up...
No - not exactly. I'm not saying they can't...I'm saying they voluntarily gave it up. It's pretty pathetic to join a military of your own free will and then oppose being sent into action.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
oh ok, I was just checking, I didn't want to assume..:)
I would be willing to bet, many who freely joined the military did not forsee being sent into battle based on faulty intel...sent into battle without proper equipment, you know, things like that...
You mean like this guy.
http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/20070102/hz_specialfeatures_1/blogs19056
"EHREN WATADA: Sure. I think that in March of 2003 when I joined up, I, like many Americans, believed the administration when they said the threat from Iraq was imminent — that there were weapons of mass destruction all throughout Iraq; that there were stockpiles of it; and because of
Saddam Hussein's ties to al-Qaeda and the 9/11 terrorist acts, the threat was imminent and we needed to invade that country immediately in order to neutralize that threat.
Since then I think I, as many, many Americans are realizing, that those justifications were intentionally falsified in order to fit a policy established long before 9/11 of just toppling the Saddam Hussein regime and setting up an American presence in Iraq. "
But see....those things like faulty intel do not matter. The nature of joining the military is that you're agreeing to immediately do what your superior(s) ask you to without questioning.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
no, it's not a fact...it's a poll...it's statistics...it's bullshit...i don't believe what any survey or poll says
from my window to yours
exactly, if you don't want to do that...then don't join...
from my window to yours
a "shut up and do it" kind of thing...right?
sorry, but you can't take human nature out of solider, they are human, too...
Don't be fooled by that fuckhead. Why didn't he dissent while stationed in Korea? Funny how he got orders to deploy then decided it was unjust, you know his family's in politics? We'll see him running for something someday, I'll bet on it.
He says he has an obligation to refuse for the good of the troops, what about his obligation to his men, he left them high and dry without their platoon leader just to deploy without him, they got wives and kids and shit.
I met him two months ago and we talked briefly, not impressed, sorry.
Everybody has an agenda.
Then they shouldn't volunteer because that's exactly how the military works.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Can you post a link please to the source? I know that soldiers are not allowed to talk to the press without serious consequences, so I doubt that there was any "survey". The gov't controls all mainstream media, so I have trouble finding this article valid. Sad to say, but until people wake up and realize that everything we hear and read aren't truths, you can't believe anything you read.
I would LIKE to believe it, but if we can't even see a covered casket of a killed soldier on tv, then there's no way a poll was taken for all of us to read.
I guess you were saying that once they sign the dotted line, they have no opinion...ever...
perhaps we should call soliders and military personnel "robots"...
by the way, how do you know "exactly how the military works"...? I'm curious...
If I may, it's called article 86 or 68 or something. Officers can not conduct interviews, polls, lettors to the editor etc. that publicly denounce the president of the United States or the US government.
Enlisted men and women can't voice their negative opinions towards the president because the president is the "Commander in Chief" the highest person in ones chain of command, making fun of the president or policy by enlisted is no different than making fun of your drill sergeant, repurcussions may follow.
Although it's not really enforced on the enlisted side, to think that such a poll could be taken accurately seems sketchy.
That's why they're sticking it to Watada, he's the first officer to publicly voice his opinion.
fuckhead?
kind of hard to have a logical discussion when you preface your point with that.
Check it out at pbs.org
Let me again apologize for my language, it's a real problem especially in the work I do as a radio DJ. I'm working on it though.
Don't let my colorful vocabulary lead you away from the facts though.
I watched part of it before I feel asleep. Nothing I hadn't heard before, but it was interesting to hear from the people that were there.
-they captured and killed the sons of Saddam
-they captured and killed several would be replacement leaders
-they defeated the formal Iraqi military
-they found no weapons of mass destruction
-they captured Saddam so that he could be brought to trial
-they made it possible for Iraq to hold elections for the formation of a democratic style governing body
-they fought insurgents
-they fought the faceless enemy of the citizen turned bomber, police trainee with a gun to their back
They did what our President asked and succeeded.
-No weapons of mass destruction were found.
-Iraq has an "elected" governing body "voted" in by the "people" of Iraq.
-Saddam is dead
-Iraq is FREE
This is the military oath of our enlisted service personnel, it varies for Officers.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
So help me God.
The "military" men and women of the U.S. and coalition forces did their duties without question and hesitation.
What possible reason is great enough for us to send an additional 20,000 more troops to Iraq. U.S. soldiers killing civilians engaged in a civil war does not constitute a military action only a necessity to defend and survive. The soldiers are realizing this. So their opinion, when expressed in a general survey, may have no effect whatsoever, yet it is their right to express such and they do not lose that right because they "volunteered" to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic ...
Civil wars are politically inspired, tragic aftermaths of wars with no end game. This one is no different. That is why we have a Department of State - SO GET TO THE TABLE and end this sh-t and stop playing games with the lives of our military personel.
That's why we use punctuation, and why it is so important.
His quote was "Don't be fooled by that fuckhead". Had he written what you thought you read, it would have been "Don't be fooled by that, fuckhead."
Subtle, but important.
No, they do not. They don't become robots for chrissakes. Taking orders is something we all do, civilian or soldier.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
That was pretty interesting. I always enjoy Frontline. I could have done without that douche Joe Wilson.
i was merely referring to him calling someone a fuckhead. but, i do see your point as it relates to puncuation