Whats the most promising alternative fuel?

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited March 2008 in A Moving Train
It seems all the socially conscious musicians from Pearl jam to Uncle Neil to Radiohead all seem to think biodiesel is the best fuel. And I too think its very promising. But my own research into it seems to suggest it takes more energy and time to make biodiesel than it does to make regular oil. So that would be a problem.

As far as what I consider the best alternative fuel, would be hemp.

Whats everyone elses take?
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Comments

  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I think Hydrogen is the best idea.... I love the honda natural gas concept (FCX) I also like the idea of trying to get it from water

    Right now Biodiesel is the closest to being commercially viable... but just think of the scale it needs to be on to make it so. The best benifit would be to get a vast number of petrolium vehicles out of the loop.

    Best case scenerio commercially is a blend of any and all.

    I think you're thinking of ethanol. Ethanol is freaking crap but ADM loves the idea. Biodiesel is pretty simple really. If anything it's easier than manufacturing regular diesel fuel which is far less refined than gasoline.

    The US will soon get the very efficient diesels they currently have over in europe. This should help push at least locally made biodiesel and maybe get some commercial efforts established.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    Stop eating corn and corn products... they are bad for you...

    Make that mutated grass into fuel...
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.
  • Solar (including wind). It's the only real renewable energy source out there. In fact it surpasses renewable, it's just infinite. Solar power combined with electricity, batteries, etc. are the answer.

    Until we crush the oil-driven automotive industry that holds back these technologies, I like Bio Deisel.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    gabers wrote:
    Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.



    indeed. I think eventually some kind of solar/wind energy powered battery vehicles are the most commercially viable clean solutions.... but I do worry about the materials used to make the batteries and their longevity.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    If any of you ever are in Texas, drop by Willie's Place.

    http://www.biowillieusa.com/inner.php?editorpage=wpl
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    gabers wrote:
    Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

    But how do the batteries get charged? Our power grid is largely powered by non-renewable energy.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • But how do the batteries get charged? Our power grid is largely powered by non-renewable energy.
    Solar power.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE!

    You people need to do some research in to EVERY alternative.

    Biodiesel - as mentioned, requires equal energy input for the output. Further degrades our slim amount of remaining top soil by requiring even more fertilizers be flung on the ground to grow even more monocrops. All of which is bad. It takes away from the food supply too, because farmers get subsidization for corn, but not for wheat or other crops. And in a time where water is running scarce, it puts a strain on the very liquid of life.

    Hydroelectric - Stopping up rivers (especialy on massive scales like China recently did) has a HUGE negative impact on the environment. Not only does it flood out and destroy thousands of indigenous peoples and animals ... but there are effects we are just now starting to understand, like when the river dries up down stream (this is colorado river i'm talkin specificaly here) and we release more water from the dam, it is water from the bottom of the river that is cold ... hence ENTIRE SPECIES of warm water fish are now being wiped out, because the water is too cold and oxygen deprived for them to survive. This in turn could catastrophicaly wipe out an entire food chain and then ecosystem! !!! It also collects massive amounts of polution & garbage since the water is all backed up and stagnant and that leeches in to the soil, the ground water, and the food supply and natural habitats!

    Wind power - It is currently WAY too inefficient for wind power to be remotely practical on the scale necessary to provide the power the world needs. Machining costs and energy inputs required to make the turbines is also way too high.

    Solar - same problem with energy intensive manufacturing reducing the net energy savings. The panels themselves are made of rare elements, making it impractical. I'm sure there are few other problems with solar. Not really something i'm too up on though.

    Hydrogen - IS NOT A POWER SOURCE! It is a power STORAGE mechanism, like a battery. Hydrogen so far as science currently has it is nothing more than a sham of a solution. Sounds great though, as long as you don't dig too deep.

    NUCLEAR POWER.
    People are going to have to suck it up, let the nuclear industry at least start making plans and testing things out and getting to the dirty job of designing and building some new goddamn nuclear facilities.

    That is, unless you want to go with good old dirty ass coal.
    :(

    And as much as i like hemp,
    i just don't see that as any more viable than ethanol as a power supply.
    Although for many other reasons hemp would go a LONG ways towards helping the world.

    Feel free to call me out if i am factualy wrong, but i have been reading books and studying green\environmental issues since just before Eddie started reading Ishmael, and none of these alternative sources really check out.

    If you are concerned about pollution and you want to engage in wind or solar on a personal level, by ALL means go ahead and do it ... however, it isn't much of a net power saving solution to the planet.

    :(

    Now.
    If you REALLY want to start talking alternative,
    maybe we could invest a couple of hundreds of billions in to zero-point energy.
    :D:D:D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Solar power definetly needs developing but it's promising based on the sheer fact that we'll never run out of it.

    The only factual flaw I see is that you listed wind power separate from solar - wind power is a solar power ;)

    The most interesting theory that I've heard came from Tesla.. In the ionosphere there are a ton of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. When they try to bond UV rays from the sun break them apart which creates an enormous amount of energy.

    Telsa theorized that you could use radio waves to send that energy in a useable fashion down to earth. I believe it's claimed that he actually figured this out to some extent but he never published it, so we don't really know anything more about it than the theory itself.

    Please feel encouraged to fact check that, it's based on what a friend of mine (an engineering student at NC State) told me - or what I remember from it to be specific.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • electronblueelectronblue WPB Florida Posts: 3,460
    quartz crystals etc... and other gems, minerals same as aliens use...~


    :)
    ********************************
    "Forgive every being,
    the bad feelings 
    it's just me"


  • quartz crystals etc... and other gems, minerals same as aliens use...~


    :)
    Zircon.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • electronblueelectronblue WPB Florida Posts: 3,460
    Zircon.

    sounds mighty fine to me.
    ********************************
    "Forgive every being,
    the bad feelings 
    it's just me"


  • sounds mighty fine to me.
    Raaaaiiiiise it up..

    baaahhhhh bum bum

    And wax it dowwwn...
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    A good question. I like what this man is doing here in S. Florida with recycle vegetable oil.

    Here's the full story...Stuart Entrepreneur Champions Recycled Vegetable Oil.

    At least it's a start.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • "The day we can harness the power of our own flatus, is the day people will move about freely the world around."

    I forgot who said that....Oh wait....I just made that up... :p
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    http://world.honda.com/fcx/

    this is the Honda I was talking about.

    Roland. That's freaking brilliant :D

    Burritos... for the economy :P
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    I am not a big fan of biodiesel at all. While burning bio-diesel in your car does output less greenhouse gases then gasoline it produces way more particulate matter, which is the stuff that causes smog and respiratory problems.

    Personally I think for generating power nuclear is the best thing we have right now. I wish it didn't get so much bad press, well designed nuclear plants have huge advantages. I think a lot of the fears people have over nuclear power come from all those awful sci-fi movies where you have giant radioactive insects. I also thing hydrogen as a commodity is something that needs continued investment.
  • On the topic of energy,

    Some may be interested in watching this rather informative documentary on the history of oil, the vast importance of it, and how it relates to everything in our lives.

    Here's the Google vid link, however the bit torrent of the DVD rip is always preferred ;)

    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-703701197044020456&q=a+crude+awakening&total=177&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

    .
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gabers wrote:
    Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.


    you are right! they arent the answer.. but yeah i agree i guess baby steps in this country should be taken considering... most of the pop. can only take baby steps because they are gigantic self-righteous whales
  • gabers wrote:
    Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

    VW is has a diesel hybrid in concept right now based Golf body that get 70 miles to the gallon....20 better than the prius I think http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/volkswagen-golf-tdi-hybrid/670951/

    Ultimately it all has to come from the sun...the source.... and go electric. The sooner the better... and it's going to have to start in the next 10-20 years....preferable earlier (as in now) though, as there will be ongoing war for oil until it happens.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    VW is has a diesel hybrid in concept right now based Golf body that get 70 miles to the gallon....20 better than the prius I think http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/volkswagen-golf-tdi-hybrid/670951/

    Ultimately it all has to come from the sun...the source.... and go electric. The sooner the better... and it's going to have to start in the next 10-20 years....preferable earlier (as in now) though, as there will be ongoing war for oil until it happens.


    its amazing... how could the sun be overlooked for so long :)

    lol if there is a god and this is a hint or clue... they are probably laughing at us...

    nature gives us all the answers we have ever gotten..

    AND THE SUN IS OVERLOOKED

    :)


    wooooooow
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    as far as vehicles go ... definitely electric ...

    on a similar topic ... there is a house in my neighbourhood that is off the grid - so to speak ... it is connected to the grid and sells excess power but draws from it when it needs to ...

    it supports a family of four and besides not wasting energy - they have the same electronics as everyone else ...

    surely, if they can live in a home that provides the majority of the energy we need - so, can many of us ... the first alternative is not some miracle energy source - it's dependent on us to acknowledge our footprint and make changes accordingly ...
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    polaris wrote:
    as far as vehicles go ... definitely electric ...

    on a similar topic ... there is a house in my neighbourhood that is off the grid - so to speak ... it is connected to the grid and sells excess power but draws from it when it needs to ...

    it supports a family of four and besides not wasting energy - they have the same electronics as everyone else ...

    surely, if they can live in a home that provides the majority of the energy we need - so, can many of us ... the first alternative is not some miracle energy source - it's dependent on us to acknowledge our footprint and make changes accordingly ...


    are you suggesting the sun is not a miracle?? :)
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    its funny we stole farming systems from indians... we stole their idea for democracy.. we stole their land.... but yet we held on to a waste of a religion known as christianity...



    LOOK UP! but squint! its not heaven.... its hell billions of light years away
  • macgyver06 wrote:
    its amazing... how could the sun be overlooked for so long :)

    lol if there is a god and this is a hint or clue... they are probably laughing at us...

    nature gives us all the answers we have ever gotten..

    AND THE SUN IS OVERLOOKED

    :)


    wooooooow

    "if only we could find some spare energy"

    "yeah...if only..."

    "something else to burn besides oil"

    "yeah..something that burns and releases energy and lasts seemingly forever"

    "hmm..................."

    "ahh...fuck it...I can't think the outside here under the heat of this hot burning sun everywhere it's making me flustered"

    "yeah actually I'm getting a sunburn.....ouch it burns..."

    "uh...can we bomb someone?"

    "definitely.....agreed"

    "sweet I'm hungry... lunch?"
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    "if only we could find some spare energy"

    "yeah...if only..."

    "something else to burn besides oil"

    "yeah..something that burns and releases energy and lasts seemingly forever"

    "hmm..................."

    "ahh...fuck it...I can think the outside here under the heat of this hot burning sun everywhere it's making me flustered"

    "can we bomb someone?"

    "definitely.....agreed"

    "sweet I'm hungry... lunch?"


    can you drive though...im low on gas..
  • macgyver06 wrote:
    can you drive though...im low on gas..

    Sure.....I need to get my sunglasses first though...sometimes the sun gets in my eyes and burns like fire to the point that I'm blinded and I can't even see anything at all...

    "f-ing sun..maybe we should bomb it..."
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    macgyver06 wrote:
    are you suggesting the sun is not a miracle?? :)

    ha! ... no ... just simply the sun is not an alternative ... it should be a primary source right now!
  • eekamouseeekamouse Posts: 267
    Short term: Electric.

    Long term: Helium-3 http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276
    Love is more important to me than faith.
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