Whats the most promising alternative fuel?

musicismylife78

It seems all the socially conscious musicians from Pearl jam to Uncle Neil to Radiohead all seem to think biodiesel is the best fuel. And I too think its very promising. But my own research into it seems to suggest it takes more energy and time to make biodiesel than it does to make regular oil. So that would be a problem.

As far as what I consider the best alternative fuel, would be hemp.

Whats everyone elses take?

Pacomc79

I think Hydrogen is the best idea.... I love the honda natural gas concept (FCX) I also like the idea of trying to get it from water

Right now Biodiesel is the closest to being commercially viable... but just think of the scale it needs to be on to make it so. The best benifit would be to get a vast number of petrolium vehicles out of the loop.

Best case scenerio commercially is a blend of any and all.

I think you're thinking of ethanol. Ethanol is freaking crap but ADM loves the idea. Biodiesel is pretty simple really. If anything it's easier than manufacturing regular diesel fuel which is far less refined than gasoline.

The US will soon get the very efficient diesels they currently have over in europe. This should help push at least locally made biodiesel and maybe get some commercial efforts established.

MasterFramer

Stop eating corn and corn products... they are bad for you...

Make that mutated grass into fuel...

gabers

Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

Pearl Jam and toast

Solar (including wind). It's the only real renewable energy source out there. In fact it surpasses renewable, it's just infinite. Solar power combined with electricity, batteries, etc. are the answer.

Until we crush the oil-driven automotive industry that holds back these technologies, I like Bio Deisel.

Pacomc79

gabers wrote:

Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

indeed. I think eventually some kind of solar/wind energy powered battery vehicles are the most commercially viable clean solutions.... but I do worry about the materials used to make the batteries and their longevity.

gabers

If any of you ever are in Texas, drop by Willie's Place.

http://www.biowillieusa.com/inner.php?editorpage=wpl

blackredyellow

gabers wrote:

Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

But how do the batteries get charged? Our power grid is largely powered by non-renewable energy.

Pearl Jam and toast

blackredyellow wrote:

But how do the batteries get charged? Our power grid is largely powered by non-renewable energy.

Solar power.

DriftingByTheStorm

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE!

You people need to do some research in to EVERY alternative.

Biodiesel - as mentioned, requires equal energy input for the output. Further degrades our slim amount of remaining top soil by requiring even more fertilizers be flung on the ground to grow even more monocrops. All of which is bad. It takes away from the food supply too, because farmers get subsidization for corn, but not for wheat or other crops. And in a time where water is running scarce, it puts a strain on the very liquid of life.

Hydroelectric - Stopping up rivers (especialy on massive scales like China recently did) has a HUGE negative impact on the environment. Not only does it flood out and destroy thousands of indigenous peoples and animals ... but there are effects we are just now starting to understand, like when the river dries up down stream (this is colorado river i'm talkin specificaly here) and we release more water from the dam, it is water from the bottom of the river that is cold ... hence ENTIRE SPECIES of warm water fish are now being wiped out, because the water is too cold and oxygen deprived for them to survive. This in turn could catastrophicaly wipe out an entire food chain and then ecosystem! !!! It also collects massive amounts of polution & garbage since the water is all backed up and stagnant and that leeches in to the soil, the ground water, and the food supply and natural habitats!

Wind power - It is currently WAY too inefficient for wind power to be remotely practical on the scale necessary to provide the power the world needs. Machining costs and energy inputs required to make the turbines is also way too high.

Solar - same problem with energy intensive manufacturing reducing the net energy savings. The panels themselves are made of rare elements, making it impractical. I'm sure there are few other problems with solar. Not really something i'm too up on though.

Hydrogen - IS NOT A POWER SOURCE! It is a power STORAGE mechanism, like a battery. Hydrogen so far as science currently has it is nothing more than a sham of a solution. Sounds great though, as long as you don't dig too deep.

NUCLEAR POWER.
People are going to have to suck it up, let the nuclear industry at least start making plans and testing things out and getting to the dirty job of designing and building some new goddamn nuclear facilities.

That is, unless you want to go with good old dirty ass coal.
:(

And as much as i like hemp,
i just don't see that as any more viable than ethanol as a power supply.
Although for many other reasons hemp would go a LONG ways towards helping the world.

Feel free to call me out if i am factualy wrong, but i have been reading books and studying green\environmental issues since just before Eddie started reading Ishmael, and none of these alternative sources really check out.

If you are concerned about pollution and you want to engage in wind or solar on a personal level, by ALL means go ahead and do it ... however, it isn't much of a net power saving solution to the planet.

:(

Now.
If you REALLY want to start talking alternative,
maybe we could invest a couple of hundreds of billions in to zero-point energy.

Pearl Jam and toast

Solar power definetly needs developing but it's promising based on the sheer fact that we'll never run out of it.

The only factual flaw I see is that you listed wind power separate from solar - wind power is a solar power

The most interesting theory that I've heard came from Tesla.. In the ionosphere there are a ton of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. When they try to bond UV rays from the sun break them apart which creates an enormous amount of energy.

Telsa theorized that you could use radio waves to send that energy in a useable fashion down to earth. I believe it's claimed that he actually figured this out to some extent but he never published it, so we don't really know anything more about it than the theory itself.

Please feel encouraged to fact check that, it's based on what a friend of mine (an engineering student at NC State) told me - or what I remember from it to be specific.

electronblue

quartz crystals etc... and other gems, minerals same as aliens use...~

Pearl Jam and toast

eddie's Tone rocks wrote:

quartz crystals etc... and other gems, minerals same as aliens use...~

Zircon.

electronblue

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Zircon.

sounds mighty fine to me.

Pearl Jam and toast

eddie's Tone rocks wrote:

sounds mighty fine to me.

Raaaaiiiiise it up..

baaahhhhh bum bum

And wax it dowwwn...

g under p

A good question. I like what this man is doing here in S. Florida with recycle vegetable oil.

Here's the full story...Stuart Entrepreneur Champions Recycled Vegetable Oil.

At least it's a start.

Peace

RolandTD20Kdrummer

"The day we can harness the power of our own flatus, is the day people will move about freely the world around."

I forgot who said that....Oh wait....I just made that up...

Pacomc79

http://world.honda.com/fcx/

this is the Honda I was talking about.

Roland. That's freaking brilliant

Burritos... for the economy :P

Kel Varnsen

I am not a big fan of biodiesel at all. While burning bio-diesel in your car does output less greenhouse gases then gasoline it produces way more particulate matter, which is the stuff that causes smog and respiratory problems.

Personally I think for generating power nuclear is the best thing we have right now. I wish it didn't get so much bad press, well designed nuclear plants have huge advantages. I think a lot of the fears people have over nuclear power come from all those awful sci-fi movies where you have giant radioactive insects. I also thing hydrogen as a commodity is something that needs continued investment.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

On the topic of energy,

Some may be interested in watching this rather informative documentary on the history of oil, the vast importance of it, and how it relates to everything in our lives.

Here's the Google vid link, however the bit torrent of the DVD rip is always preferred

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-703701197044020456&q=a+crude+awakening&total=177&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

.

macgyver06

gabers wrote:

Alternative fuels really aren't the answer - electric cars or cars that run on battery power are. But for now, go with biodiesel. I look forward to the next generation of diesel engines for smaller cars. I know VW is cooking up something good.

you are right! they arent the answer.. but yeah i agree i guess baby steps in this country should be taken considering... most of the pop. can only take baby steps because they are gigantic self-righteous whales