Experts warn North Pole will be ice free by 2040, and that is optomistic

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
Experts warn North Pole will be 'ice free' by 2040
Lewis Smith, Environment Reporter of The Times
Ice is melting so fast in the Arctic that the North Pole will be in the open sea in 30 years, according to a team of leading climatologists.

Ships will be able to sail over the top of the world and tourists will be able visit what was, until climate change, one of planet’s most inaccessible landscapes.

Researchers assessing the impact of carbon emissions on the world’s climate have calculated that late summer in the Arctic will be ice-free by 2040 or earlier - well within a lifetime.

Some ice would still be found on coastlines, notably Greenland and Ellesmere Island, but the rest of the Arctic Ocean, including the pole, would be open water.

The Nasa-funded US team of researchers said the ice retreat is likely to remain fairly constant until 2024 when there will be a sudden speeding up of the process.

In between 30 and 50 years, they concluded, summer sea ice will have vanished from almost the entire Arctic region.

Their finding may, however, already be out of date and something of an over-optimistic forecast, said Professor Chris Rapley, head of the British Antarctic Survey.

He said a recent study by the Global Carbon Project suggests emissions are rising more than twice as fast as in 2000 which is likely to speed up ice-loss even further.

"The study findings may be an under estimate of when the Arctic summer ice might be all gone," he said. "It could well be their assumptions are more optimistic than they might be."

He described the report as "worrying" but said it fitted into recent findings based on satellite observations of the speed at which ice is retreating.

Arctic ice is being hit by the double effects of loss of reflectivity and warmer currents being washed into the ocean.

Scientists have long realised that ice reflects heat and as the quantity reduces so, too, does the amount of heat that can be bounced away from the Earth.

However, the study team from the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Colorado, US, and two US universities, identified warmer ocean currents as an additional factor to be considered.

Disappearing ice is already causing problems for the Polar Bear and it is likely to be driven to the brink of extinction unless it can find ways of adapting.

Other wildlife, including seals, are also likely to suffer, though not so badly but the removal of sea ice is likely to benefit a range of marine creatures, including cod, which could move in to the open waters.

For people the open waters are likely to lead to fresh opportunities, though the Inuit lifestyle would be damaged.

Tourist could open up to allow visitors Arctic cruises with cocktail parties over the North Pole that previously defied the best efforts of many explorers.

Oil companies would move in to tap resources previously protected by the ice and freight firms could use the ocean as a shortcut.

Winter ice will still remain because temperatures will plunge during the winter when there is no sun to heat up the region but it will melt faster each year because less will form.

The US study team modified one of the climate models used by the United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change to establish what will happen to the ice as carbon emissions rise.

"We have already witnessed major losses in sea ice, but our research suggests that the decrease over the next few decades could be far more dramatic than anything that has happened so far," said Professor Marika Holland who led the study. "These changes are surprisingly rapid."

"As the ice retreats, the ocean transports more heat to the Arctic and the open water absorbs more sunlight, further accelerating the rate of warming and leading to the loss of more ice. This is a positive feedback loop with dramatic implications for the entire Arctic region."
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Comments

  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    sounds like this is inevitable. whether it be 2040 or 2140. is there really anything anyone can do to stop it from happening?
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    it is inevitable ... not because a solution is difficult but because people will always be people who would choose their own self-interests over that of everyone else's ...
  • Its inevitable because the earths axis is tilted and its orbit eliptical... We have had ice ages and thaws before, and its gonna happen again... Maybe we are speeding it up a little bit, but its gonna happen even if we completly stop putting out carbon...
    "Almost unconsciously he traced with his finger in the dust on the table: 2+2=5" 1984
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Magus wrote:
    Its inevitable because the earths axis is tilted and its orbit eliptical... We have had ice ages and thaws before, and its gonna happen again... Maybe we are speeding it up a little bit, but its gonna happen even if we completly stop putting out carbon...

    I completely agree...the earth goes through cycles. We cant stop it.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • gobrowns19gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    I love your signature Cheguevara6, every one of them. Some cool Neil ones too. I thought of Be The Rain while reading this article..... :(
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Experts warn North Pole will be 'ice free' by 2040
    Lewis Smith, Environment Reporter of The Times
    Ice is melting so fast in the Arctic that the North Pole will be in the open sea in 30 years, according to a team of leading climatologists.

    Ships will be able to sail over the top of the world and tourists will be able visit what was, until climate change, one of planet’s most inaccessible landscapes.

    Researchers assessing the impact of carbon emissions on the world’s climate have calculated that late summer in the Arctic will be ice-free by 2040 or earlier - well within a lifetime.

    Some ice would still be found on coastlines, notably Greenland and Ellesmere Island, but the rest of the Arctic Ocean, including the pole, would be open water.

    The Nasa-funded US team of researchers said the ice retreat is likely to remain fairly constant until 2024 when there will be a sudden speeding up of the process.

    In between 30 and 50 years, they concluded, summer sea ice will have vanished from almost the entire Arctic region.

    Their finding may, however, already be out of date and something of an over-optimistic forecast, said Professor Chris Rapley, head of the British Antarctic Survey.

    He said a recent study by the Global Carbon Project suggests emissions are rising more than twice as fast as in 2000 which is likely to speed up ice-loss even further.

    "The study findings may be an under estimate of when the Arctic summer ice might be all gone," he said. "It could well be their assumptions are more optimistic than they might be."

    He described the report as "worrying" but said it fitted into recent findings based on satellite observations of the speed at which ice is retreating.

    Arctic ice is being hit by the double effects of loss of reflectivity and warmer currents being washed into the ocean.

    Scientists have long realised that ice reflects heat and as the quantity reduces so, too, does the amount of heat that can be bounced away from the Earth.

    However, the study team from the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Colorado, US, and two US universities, identified warmer ocean currents as an additional factor to be considered.

    Disappearing ice is already causing problems for the Polar Bear and it is likely to be driven to the brink of extinction unless it can find ways of adapting.

    Other wildlife, including seals, are also likely to suffer, though not so badly but the removal of sea ice is likely to benefit a range of marine creatures, including cod, which could move in to the open waters.

    For people the open waters are likely to lead to fresh opportunities, though the Inuit lifestyle would be damaged.

    Tourist could open up to allow visitors Arctic cruises with cocktail parties over the North Pole that previously defied the best efforts of many explorers.

    Oil companies would move in to tap resources previously protected by the ice and freight firms could use the ocean as a shortcut.

    Winter ice will still remain because temperatures will plunge during the winter when there is no sun to heat up the region but it will melt faster each year because less will form.

    The US study team modified one of the climate models used by the United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change to establish what will happen to the ice as carbon emissions rise.

    "We have already witnessed major losses in sea ice, but our research suggests that the decrease over the next few decades could be far more dramatic than anything that has happened so far," said Professor Marika Holland who led the study. "These changes are surprisingly rapid."

    "As the ice retreats, the ocean transports more heat to the Arctic and the open water absorbs more sunlight, further accelerating the rate of warming and leading to the loss of more ice. This is a positive feedback loop with dramatic implications for the entire Arctic region."

    very good work but you left out a few facts. coastal towns are already being relocated due to rising waters. the fresh water melting will dilute the salt SG killing many fish and causing methane emmissions. if the earths temperature rises another 4 degrees F; the frozen methane deposits will melt (it's happening now in the carribean) causing another 4 to 5 degree F rise which will cause a repeat of the permian extinction as verified by scientific discovery in greenland in 1998 or 99. canada's frozen tundra will stratify and sink as many places in alaska have in recent earthquakes.
    nobody listens so i say
    WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN!
  • Oh, and the real problem with global tempuratures increasing is the fresh water diluting the salinaty of the sea in the north, thus screwing with density and convection of the ocen currents, thus warm waters from the equator stop being transported to the north... gloabl warming with result in an ice age...dont worry about the glaciers, they will be back, and all the way into the USA in a century or so...and for everyone screaming... the animals are losing their habitats... something like 98+% of all species that have existed on earth have gone extinct... deal with it. Ya the seals and polar bears are majestic creatures...but they are too specialized and will suffer the consequences, unless as it says they adapt, like every other creature still around does...
    "Almost unconsciously he traced with his finger in the dust on the table: 2+2=5" 1984
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Magus wrote:
    Oh, and the real problem with global tempuratures increasing is the fresh water diluting the salinaty of the sea in the north, thus screwing with density and convection of the ocen currents, thus warm waters from the equator stop being transported to the north... gloabl warming with result in an ice age...dont worry about the glaciers, they will be back, and all the way into the USA in a century or so...and for everyone screaming... the animals are losing their habitats... something like 98+% of all species that have existed on earth have gone extinct... deal with it. Ya the seals and polar bears are majestic creatures...but they are too specialized and will suffer the consequences, unless as it says they adapt, like every other creature still around does...

    the ice age will come after the extinction. nature heals itself. it has for billions of years. most creatures can't adapt to what's coming. mostly because there will be no way to obtain food. humans can live underground but can't produce the food needed underground.
  • Wow... uhh, we lived pretty well through the last ice age... in fact thats how people made it to the Americas... The extinction? Did i miss the asteroid coming in, are we shooting of the nukes already? The planet is fine... have we inhabited places we shouldnt have? Have we overpopulated this planet? Yup we have...but we are going survive for a long time...as long as nothing big hits us, and we dont cause nuclear winter...
    "Almost unconsciously he traced with his finger in the dust on the table: 2+2=5" 1984
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Learn to swim :D

    Wouldn't it be badass if the thaw released the Kraken? :p
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Magus wrote:
    Wow... uhh, we lived pretty well through the last ice age... in fact thats how people made it to the Americas... The extinction? Did i miss the asteroid coming in, are we shooting of the nukes already? The planet is fine... have we inhabited places we shouldnt have? Have we overpopulated this planet? Yup we have...but we are going survive for a long time...as long as nothing big hits us, and we dont cause nuclear winter...

    the conditions are right for a repeat of the permien extinction. this is the difference. all factors that caused this mass extinction (more then 90%) are in place now. it's not the siberian flats spewing CO2 and sulfer dioxide into the atmosphere this time; it's man. and the frozen methane pockets which would have solved the worlds energy crisis and dependency on oil will be the clean burning fuel that kills us.
  • nobody listens until it affects them directly. they ignore the warnings. once we get slapped in the face, we usually listen. but this will be one hell of a slap in the face.
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Well, while you're all planning how to stop global warming. I'm planning how I'm going to survive it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I also saw a story today about a complete dinosaur fossil found in Antarctica from "a time when the earth was much warmer than now"....and when humans didn't exist.

    (Note: the above post does not advocate blatantly harming the environment)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    honestly im not scared of global warming. People are overreacting to this.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    miller8966 wrote:
    honestly im not scared of global warming. People are overreacting to this.

    No doubt, my apartment is freezing. :cool:
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No doubt, my apartment is freezing. :cool:

    its 50 degrees here in Nj...im loving global warming.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • gobrowns19gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    nobody listens until it affects them directly. they ignore the warnings. once we get slapped in the face, we usually listen. but this will be one hell of a slap in the face.

    That's one hell of a post. Post of the year. Some people are just so ignorant..... :(
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    gobrowns19 wrote:
    That's one hell of a post. Post of the year. Some people are just so ignorant..... :(

    its fear mongering by the left. You have a better chance being blown up by a terrorist than some polar ice caps melting 45 years from now.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Something I don't understand about the theories of flooding. And I'm not being a wise ass, i really don't understand it.

    If you fill a glass with a bunch of ice, then put some water in it, and allow the ice to melt...the volume actually drops.

    Why wouldn't we have more land and less water if the ice melts? I really don't know much about earth science but i could never understand this. The only possible explanation I can think of is that it has something to do with gravity.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • gobrowns19gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    miller8966 wrote:
    its fear mongering by the left. You have a better chance being blown up by a terrorist than some polar ice caps melting 45 years from now.

    It's always fear mongering. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It may well be, but the big thing is this is happening because of what WE are doing, and we aren't doing anything about it while we still have a chance...
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Something I don't understand about the theories of flooding. And I'm not being a wise ass, i really don't understand it.

    If you fill a glass with a bunch of ice, then put some water in it, and allow the ice to melt...the volume actually drops.

    Why wouldn't we have more land and less water if the ice melts? I really don't know much about earth science but i could never understand this. The only possible explanation I can think of is that it has something to do with gravity.

    I think because of two reasons. A lot of the ice is on ground, and the rest floats.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    gobrowns19 wrote:
    It's always fear mongering. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It may well be, but the big thing is this is happening because of what WE are doing, and we aren't doing anything about it while we still have a chance...

    Global warming has very little to do with us. It's inevitable.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I think because of two reasons. A lot of the ice is on ground, and the rest floats.

    That's a good point about the ice on the ground..but still...the ice that melts that is floating...should reduce water levels. Ice cubes float too.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • gobrowns19gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Global warming has very little to do with us. It's inevitable.

    Yeah, but we're still not helping it at all, we're hurting it badly!

    Be The Rain!!!
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    gobrowns19 wrote:
    Yeah, but we're still not helping it at all, we're hurting it badly!

    Be The Rain!!!

    Check it out
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Co2-temperature-plot.svg

    Notice the temperature raises and drops with the Co2 levels.

    This is how they came to "realize" that Co2 effects global warming.

    Now notice that the current Co2 level is almost 3 times that of the last ice-age. And yet, we haven't kick-started anything. This clearly tells me that Co2 is not the cause of global warming. Rather... when the earth's temperature increases more permafrost melts releasing more greenhouse gases, including Co2 so the level of Co2 historically goes up with the earth's temperature, then bam, ice-age and everything get's frozen over again and the Co2 levels go down.

    That's my theory anyway, but hey, I'm not an expert.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    Damn this global warming. We better elect a new Jesus.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • the conditions are right for a repeat of the permien extinction. this is the difference. all factors that caused this mass extinction (more then 90%) are in place now. it's not the siberian flats spewing CO2 and sulfer dioxide into the atmosphere this time; it's man. and the frozen methane pockets which would have solved the worlds energy crisis and dependency on oil will be the clean burning fuel that kills us.

    The Permian extinction was a product of volcanism on a massive scale in addition to possibly a meteor strike. People have a massive ego if they think that humanity could ever hope to repeat the extinction at the P/T boundary which killed 90% of all species.
  • gobrowns19 wrote:
    the big thing is this is happening because of what WE are doing, and we aren't doing anything about it while we still have a chance...

    This remains contentious in the scientific literature despite what Bono, Greenpeace and others might have you believe- In fact the rate of warming has decreased since the 70's. I hate George Bush as much as the next bloke (who aint an evangelist) but the evidence for anthropogenic warming is inconclusive at best.
  • seanw1010seanw1010 Posts: 1,205
    yeah! itll be summer year 'round!


    JK
    they call them fingers, but i never see them fing. oh, there they go
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