Does God want you to be rich?
Milhouse VanHouten
Posts: 755
from CNN.com:
Does God want you to be rich?
POSTED: 9:55 a.m. EDT, September 10, 2006
Editor's note: The following is a summary of this week's Time magazine cover story.
(Time.com) -- In three of the Gospels, Jesus warns that each of his disciples may have to "deny himself" and even "take up his Cross."
In support of this prediction, he contrasts the fleeting pleasures of today with the promise of eternity: "For what profit is it to a man," he asks, "if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
Generations of churchgoers have understood that being Christian means being ready to sacrifice. But for a growing number of Christians, the question is better restated, "Why not gain the whole world plus my soul?"
For several decades, a philosophy has been percolating in the 10 million-strong Pentecostal wing of Christianity that seems to turn the Gospels' passage on its head. Certainly, it allows, Christians should keep one eye on heaven. But the new good news is that God doesn't want us to wait.
Known (or vilified) under a variety of names -- Word of Faith, Health and Wealth, Name It and Claim It, Prosperity Theology -- its emphasis is on God's promised generosity in this life. In a nutshell, it suggests that a God who loves you does not want you to be broke.
Its signature verse could be John 10:10: "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." In a Time poll, 17 percent of Christians surveyed said they considered themselves part of such a movement, while a full 61 percent believed that God wants people to be prosperous.
"Prosperity" first blazed to public attention as the driveshaft in the moneymaking machine that was 1980s televangelism and faded from mainstream view with the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals.
But now, after some key modifications (which have inspired some to redub it Prosperity Lite), it has not only recovered but is booming.
Of the four biggest megachurches in the country, three -- Joel Osteen's Lakewood in Houston; T.D. Jakes' Potter's House in south Dallas; and Creflo Dollar's World Changers in Atlanta -- are Prosperity or Prosperity Lite pulpits (although Jakes' ministry has many more facets).
While they don't exclusively teach that God's riches want to be in believers' wallets, it is a key part of their doctrine.
And propelled by Osteen's 4 million-selling book, Your Best Life Now, the belief has swept beyond its Pentecostal base into more buttoned-down evangelical churches, and even into congregations in the more liberal Mainline. It is taught in hundreds of non-Pentecostal Bible studies. One Pennsylvania Lutheran pastor even made it the basis for a sermon series for Lent, when Christians usually meditate on why Jesus was having His Worst Life Then.
The movement's renaissance has infuriated a number of prominent pastors, theologians and commentators. Fellow megapastor Rick Warren, whose book The Purpose Driven Life has outsold Osteen's by a ratio of 7 to 1, finds the very basis of Prosperity laughable. "This idea that God wants everybody to be wealthy?" he snorts. "There is a word for that: baloney. It's creating a false idol. You don't measure your self-worth by your net worth. I can show you millions of faithful followers of Christ who live in poverty. Why isn't everyone in the church a millionaire?"
The brickbats -- both theological and practical (who really gets rich from this?) --come especially thick from Evangelicals like Warren. Evangelicalism is more prominent and influential than ever before. Yet the movement, which has never had a robust theology of money, finds an aggressive philosophy advancing within its ranks that many of its leaders regard as simplistic, possibly heretical and certainly embarrassing.
Prosperity's defenders claim to be able to match their critics chapter and verse. They caution against broad-brushing a wide spectrum that ranges from pastors who crassly solicit sky's-the-limit financial offerings from their congregations to those whose services tend more toward God-fueled self-help.
Advocates note Prosperity's racial diversity -- a welcome exception to the American norm -- and point out that some Prosperity churches engage in significant charity. And they see in it a happy corrective for Christians who are more used to being chastened for their sins than celebrated as God's children.
"Who would want to get in on something where you're miserable, poor, broke and ugly and you just have to muddle through until you get to heaven?" asks Joyce Meyer, a popular television preacher and author often lumped in the Prosperity Lite camp. "I believe God wants to give us nice things."
If nothing else, Meyer and other new-breed preachers broach a neglected topic that should really be a staple of Sunday messages: Does God want you to be rich?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/10/time.cover.tm/index.html
Does God want you to be rich?
POSTED: 9:55 a.m. EDT, September 10, 2006
Editor's note: The following is a summary of this week's Time magazine cover story.
(Time.com) -- In three of the Gospels, Jesus warns that each of his disciples may have to "deny himself" and even "take up his Cross."
In support of this prediction, he contrasts the fleeting pleasures of today with the promise of eternity: "For what profit is it to a man," he asks, "if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
Generations of churchgoers have understood that being Christian means being ready to sacrifice. But for a growing number of Christians, the question is better restated, "Why not gain the whole world plus my soul?"
For several decades, a philosophy has been percolating in the 10 million-strong Pentecostal wing of Christianity that seems to turn the Gospels' passage on its head. Certainly, it allows, Christians should keep one eye on heaven. But the new good news is that God doesn't want us to wait.
Known (or vilified) under a variety of names -- Word of Faith, Health and Wealth, Name It and Claim It, Prosperity Theology -- its emphasis is on God's promised generosity in this life. In a nutshell, it suggests that a God who loves you does not want you to be broke.
Its signature verse could be John 10:10: "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." In a Time poll, 17 percent of Christians surveyed said they considered themselves part of such a movement, while a full 61 percent believed that God wants people to be prosperous.
"Prosperity" first blazed to public attention as the driveshaft in the moneymaking machine that was 1980s televangelism and faded from mainstream view with the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals.
But now, after some key modifications (which have inspired some to redub it Prosperity Lite), it has not only recovered but is booming.
Of the four biggest megachurches in the country, three -- Joel Osteen's Lakewood in Houston; T.D. Jakes' Potter's House in south Dallas; and Creflo Dollar's World Changers in Atlanta -- are Prosperity or Prosperity Lite pulpits (although Jakes' ministry has many more facets).
While they don't exclusively teach that God's riches want to be in believers' wallets, it is a key part of their doctrine.
And propelled by Osteen's 4 million-selling book, Your Best Life Now, the belief has swept beyond its Pentecostal base into more buttoned-down evangelical churches, and even into congregations in the more liberal Mainline. It is taught in hundreds of non-Pentecostal Bible studies. One Pennsylvania Lutheran pastor even made it the basis for a sermon series for Lent, when Christians usually meditate on why Jesus was having His Worst Life Then.
The movement's renaissance has infuriated a number of prominent pastors, theologians and commentators. Fellow megapastor Rick Warren, whose book The Purpose Driven Life has outsold Osteen's by a ratio of 7 to 1, finds the very basis of Prosperity laughable. "This idea that God wants everybody to be wealthy?" he snorts. "There is a word for that: baloney. It's creating a false idol. You don't measure your self-worth by your net worth. I can show you millions of faithful followers of Christ who live in poverty. Why isn't everyone in the church a millionaire?"
The brickbats -- both theological and practical (who really gets rich from this?) --come especially thick from Evangelicals like Warren. Evangelicalism is more prominent and influential than ever before. Yet the movement, which has never had a robust theology of money, finds an aggressive philosophy advancing within its ranks that many of its leaders regard as simplistic, possibly heretical and certainly embarrassing.
Prosperity's defenders claim to be able to match their critics chapter and verse. They caution against broad-brushing a wide spectrum that ranges from pastors who crassly solicit sky's-the-limit financial offerings from their congregations to those whose services tend more toward God-fueled self-help.
Advocates note Prosperity's racial diversity -- a welcome exception to the American norm -- and point out that some Prosperity churches engage in significant charity. And they see in it a happy corrective for Christians who are more used to being chastened for their sins than celebrated as God's children.
"Who would want to get in on something where you're miserable, poor, broke and ugly and you just have to muddle through until you get to heaven?" asks Joyce Meyer, a popular television preacher and author often lumped in the Prosperity Lite camp. "I believe God wants to give us nice things."
If nothing else, Meyer and other new-breed preachers broach a neglected topic that should really be a staple of Sunday messages: Does God want you to be rich?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/10/time.cover.tm/index.html
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
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Comments
Yeah, Mother Theresa must've been a real dumb ass.
I'm not so sure about this whole "God" thing to begin with, but I hope that if God does exist, he's not wasting his time caring about me being in a higher tax bracket.
The whole concept is nothing like what I heard growing up in the Catholic church - it was all about encouraging people to give to the needy and do for the poor, as it should be IMO.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Yeah, it's funny how God's will and man's desires have so much in common here. That's usually not the case in Christianity.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
That said, the Bible does teach that God will help you in your time of need, that you should give and it will be returned to you. But I don't think this applies solely to money. Money is just a tool, it isn't the only blessing in life.
One could argue this theology is really a combination of Christianity and the new age. Metaphysical power of positive thinking stuff.
Dinner for two- $40
2 PJ tickets- $110
2 Movie and snacks- $32
Drinks at the pub- $40
Just an example of money we blow every weekend that instead of pleasing ourselves, could go to helping out that family in need. It doesnt take a millionaire to make a difference or come up with $112
quote=Milhouse VanHouten]from CNN.com:
Does God want you to be rich?
POSTED: 9:55 a.m. EDT, September 10, 2006
Editor's note: The following is a summary of this week's Time magazine cover story.
(Time.com) -- In three of the Gospels, Jesus warns that each of his disciples may have to "deny himself" and even "take up his Cross."
In support of this prediction, he contrasts the fleeting pleasures of today with the promise of eternity: "For what profit is it to a man," he asks, "if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
Generations of churchgoers have understood that being Christian means being ready to sacrifice. But for a growing number of Christians, the question is better restated, "Why not gain the whole world plus my soul?"
For several decades, a philosophy has been percolating in the 10 million-strong Pentecostal wing of Christianity that seems to turn the Gospels' passage on its head. Certainly, it allows, Christians should keep one eye on heaven. But the new good news is that God doesn't want us to wait.
Known (or vilified) under a variety of names -- Word of Faith, Health and Wealth, Name It and Claim It, Prosperity Theology -- its emphasis is on God's promised generosity in this life. In a nutshell, it suggests that a God who loves you does not want you to be broke.
Its signature verse could be John 10:10: "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." In a Time poll, 17 percent of Christians surveyed said they considered themselves part of such a movement, while a full 61 percent believed that God wants people to be prosperous.
"Prosperity" first blazed to public attention as the driveshaft in the moneymaking machine that was 1980s televangelism and faded from mainstream view with the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals.
But now, after some key modifications (which have inspired some to redub it Prosperity Lite), it has not only recovered but is booming.
Of the four biggest megachurches in the country, three -- Joel Osteen's Lakewood in Houston; T.D. Jakes' Potter's House in south Dallas; and Creflo Dollar's World Changers in Atlanta -- are Prosperity or Prosperity Lite pulpits (although Jakes' ministry has many more facets).
While they don't exclusively teach that God's riches want to be in believers' wallets, it is a key part of their doctrine.
And propelled by Osteen's 4 million-selling book, Your Best Life Now, the belief has swept beyond its Pentecostal base into more buttoned-down evangelical churches, and even into congregations in the more liberal Mainline. It is taught in hundreds of non-Pentecostal Bible studies. One Pennsylvania Lutheran pastor even made it the basis for a sermon series for Lent, when Christians usually meditate on why Jesus was having His Worst Life Then.
The movement's renaissance has infuriated a number of prominent pastors, theologians and commentators. Fellow megapastor Rick Warren, whose book The Purpose Driven Life has outsold Osteen's by a ratio of 7 to 1, finds the very basis of Prosperity laughable. "This idea that God wants everybody to be wealthy?" he snorts. "There is a word for that: baloney. It's creating a false idol. You don't measure your self-worth by your net worth. I can show you millions of faithful followers of Christ who live in poverty. Why isn't everyone in the church a millionaire?"
The brickbats -- both theological and practical (who really gets rich from this?) --come especially thick from Evangelicals like Warren. Evangelicalism is more prominent and influential than ever before. Yet the movement, which has never had a robust theology of money, finds an aggressive philosophy advancing within its ranks that many of its leaders regard as simplistic, possibly heretical and certainly embarrassing.
Prosperity's defenders claim to be able to match their critics chapter and verse. They caution against broad-brushing a wide spectrum that ranges from pastors who crassly solicit sky's-the-limit financial offerings from their congregations to those whose services tend more toward God-fueled self-help.
Advocates note Prosperity's racial diversity -- a welcome exception to the American norm -- and point out that some Prosperity churches engage in significant charity. And they see in it a happy corrective for Christians who are more used to being chastened for their sins than celebrated as God's children.
"Who would want to get in on something where you're miserable, poor, broke and ugly and you just have to muddle through until you get to heaven?" asks Joyce Meyer, a popular television preacher and author often lumped in the Prosperity Lite camp. "I believe God wants to give us nice things."
If nothing else, Meyer and other new-breed preachers broach a neglected topic that should really be a staple of Sunday messages: Does God want you to be rich?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/10/time.cover.tm/index.html[/quote]
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
there you are.
- brain of c
Humble for what? Thankful to whom?
Sacrifice to whom? Give of myself to what?
Why?
Sacrifice for others, Give yourself to the will of God
Why? Why not?
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
And who is that?
Sacrifice for others or sacrifice to others?
What's in that for me?
Because my body tells me that comfort means that I'm doing right.
i agree with you for the most part. We should def be humble toward God and this is also shown by being humble to man.
Def give yourself to God
I'll disagree with your last thought though. I don't agree that if you are comfortable you are doing something wrong. No more than if you are poor you're doing things right. I don't think God cares if I'm rich or not; I don't think God cares where I live, as long as i don't lose sight of him and make the place, money, person etc... more important than Him.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Well like I had mentioned, no one can really fulfill this, I don't. The awesome thing is Jesus paid the price for our sins, I've broken all ten commandments a number of times over I deserve to be punished. Thankfully Christ took that for me and for you because of the unfathomable love He has for us.
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
You've murdered people?
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I'm honored to be able to share the good news with you. Jesus is the son of God. God stepped into human history 2000 years ago as a man to live among His creation. There is only one true God revealed in three persons, God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. God made man perfect in the begining with Adam and Eve. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree God had forbid them to eat from they introduced sin into the world. From that point on man has been a slave to sin.God is perfect and rightous we are full of sin. In order for us to be reunited with God there had to be something done to restablish the broken relationship between God and man. Enter Jesus, born of the Virgin Mary. He lived a perfect life, the only human ever to be without sin. He was God in human form therefore he could not sin because He was divine. Jesus came to die for all the sins of man past,present and future. With out His shed blood we would all be damned to spend eternity apart from God. Since Christ was perfect His blood was an exceptible payment for our sin so that we may enter into Gods presence once again. Christ did this as a gift to us, all we have to do to recieve the gift is simply repent of our sins and admit we are sinners and we are in need of a Savior believe that Jesus is our Savior and ask him to enter our heart and change us to what He intended us to be. Jesus loves you and he suffered and died so you could have eternal life. Thank you Lord for your mercy and Grace!
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
Jesus said that if you have ever hated anyone you have murdered them in your heart. So yes I am guilty of murder.
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
But I don't want eternal life. So what does any of the above have to do with me?
Well picture all that was,is,and will be good in your life. Think of how happy these times have made you. Now picture all the bad,sick,nasty and evil that has accoured in your life, not the best stuff to think about right? When you die you pass on to eternity. It is either eternity with God or without Him. With Him you live forever in those good happy times because everything that is good is from God. With out God you will spend eternity with out any chance of good ever again. This is refered to as hell the seperation from God forever. Right now you chose wheter to know God or not to. When you die you no longer have that choice. It depends on the choice you make right now this moment. If you are with Him now then you will see heaven, if you are not with Him before you die then you will apart forever(hell). God simply gives what you choose, He is not out to condem you, He wants a relationship with you, and He wants it to start right away before it is to late to go back.
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
So let me get this straight: In order to get a lifetime of all that "was, is and will be good" in my life, I have to sacrifice it all to something called God based on nothing more than your promise that I'll get it all back after I'm dead?
Perhaps it might help if I rephrase. I already have that which was is and will be good in my life. Why on earth would I give it up to then get it back? Why not just keep it? You say God wants a "relationship" with me. Ok. What does he have to offer?
I think He also wants them to score touchdowns and hit home runs, too.
Hail, Hail!!!
Forever as oppose to 60-80 years.
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
I already told you -- I'm not interested in "eternal life".
You've bowed before guilded images of other gods? Banged your neighbor's wife? Stole shit? Murdered someone?
and you can get away with all of that because you lean heavily on Jesus and dump all of your sins on Him?
Where I haven't done anything like that... except, lied... and stole shit when I was a kid... and I'm accepting all of my sins as my own and not dumping my faults on Jesus because I don't think He was here to take on my crap, but to teach me the right path to take in this life... and I'M going to Hell?
I don't get it.
Hail, Hail!!!
The problem you will enter into a type of eternity. It will be eternally with God or without, either way you are spending it some where, I'm sorry.
Believe in things again like when you were a child.
Or possibility in a void where nothingness is the only thing that exists.
Hail, Hail!!!
But it doesn't sound like God has anything I want, short of some kind of bizarre blackmail deal.