Kosovo claimed independence from Serbia yesterday
OutOfBreath
Posts: 1,804
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249909.stm
It was bound to happen, I suppose, but I'm not so sure it was really the best solution. The Albanian leadership is made up of the militants from the conflict back in the day. Furthermore, what about the serbs caught inside the province borders? I think they are right to be worried. Perhaps the serb parts should not be included in a new state.
Most European countries are now thinking over what they'll do in regards to recognizing Kosovo as a state. Russia is opposed, as is other countries with seperatist minorities.
Peace
Dan
It was bound to happen, I suppose, but I'm not so sure it was really the best solution. The Albanian leadership is made up of the militants from the conflict back in the day. Furthermore, what about the serbs caught inside the province borders? I think they are right to be worried. Perhaps the serb parts should not be included in a new state.
Most European countries are now thinking over what they'll do in regards to recognizing Kosovo as a state. Russia is opposed, as is other countries with seperatist minorities.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
_______________________________________________________________
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_re_eu/kosovo_independence
PRISTINA, Serbia - Tiny Kosovo — poor, mostly Muslim but feverishly pro-Western — braced itself Saturday for a historic declaration of independence from Serbia, a decade after a war that killed 10,000 people and years of limbo under U.N. rule.
The province's bold bid for statehood, expected Sunday, and its quest for international recognition set up an ominous showdown with Serbia and Russia. Moscow contends the move will set a dangerous precedent for secessionist groups worldwide.
Revelers took to the streets in giddy anticipation. Prime Minister Hashim Thaci — a former leader of the guerrilla Kosovo Liberation Army — marked the eve of the new nation's birth by visiting a village where Serbian troops massacred ethnic Albanians in 1998.
"Tomorrow is a historic day in our effort to create a state," Thaci said in Prekaze, about 25 miles southeast of the capital, Pristina.
Thaci, a former leader of the now-disbanded Kosovo Liberation Army, was expected to call a special session of parliament Sunday afternoon to declare an independent Republic of Kosovo and unveil a new flag and national crest.
In a televised address later Saturday, Thaci said "everything is a done deal."
"We are getting our independence," he said. "The world's map is changing."
In the provincial capital Pristina, the icing was on celebratory cakes and bottles of "Independence" wine chilled as the new reality sank in.
"Independence is a dream for all the people of Kosovo, and I am very happy, like everybody," said Lumturije Bytyqi, 20.
But Kosovo's small Serb population greeted the secession as though it were an amputation. Many vowed never to accept the loss of a region they consider the heart of their ancestral homeland.
"I'm asking all the Serbs to reject the monster state of Kosovo, and to do everything to prevent its birth," said Marko Jaksic, a Kosovo Serb hard-line leader.
The dancing and drum-beating that pulsed through Pristina — awash in red and black Albanian flags with the distinctive double-headed eagle — contrasted sharply with the gloom gripping the ethnically divided northern town of Kosovska Mitrovica, a Serb stronghold and a flashpoint for violence.
"We are Serbs and this will always be Serbia," said a defiant Djordje Maric, 18. "We are ready to defend our territories at all costs, including with our lives."
Although it is formally part of Serbia, Kosovo has been administered by the U.N. since 1999, when NATO airstrikes ended the late Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic's brutal crackdown on ethnic Albanian separatists.
Ninety percent of Kosovo's 2 million people are ethnic Albanian — most moderate or non-practicing Muslims, the rest Roman Catholics — and they see no reason to stay joined to the rest of Christian Orthodox Serbia.
With Russia, a staunch Serbian ally, determined to block the bid, Kosovo looked to the U.S. and key European powers for swift recognition as the continent's newest nation. That recognition was likely to come Monday at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels, Belgium.
The EU gave its final go-ahead Saturday to send an 1,800-member mission to replace the current U.N. administration. The mission is designed to help build a police, justice and customs system for Kosovo.
Thaci announced the creation of a new Cabinet ministry to focus on minority rights.
But the imminent independence of the territory, roughly the size of Connecticut, threatened to touch off a diplomatic crisis and possible unrest.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, arguing that independence without U.N. approval would set a dangerous precedent for "frozen conflicts" across the former Soviet Union and around the world, pressured the Security Council to intervene.
In the Serbian capital Belgrade, about 1,000 protesters waved Serbian flags and chanted "Kosovo is the heart of Serbia." Officials ruled out any military response, but warned that Serbia would downgrade relations with any foreign government that recognizes Kosovo's independence.
NATO, which still has 16,000 peacekeepers in Kosovo, boosted patrols in the tense north and in scattered isolated enclaves where most of the Serbs live in hopes of easing the chances of violence, and international police deployed Saturday to back up local forces.
Some Serbs have suffered reprisal attacks carried out by ethnic Albanians seeking to avenge the bloodshed of the 1998-99 war. There were concerns that edgy Serbs might pack up and leave, but the head of the influential Serbian Orthodox Church appealed to them Saturday to "stay in their homes and guard this holy Serbian land."
Many ethnic Albanian Kosovars, their long-awaited nationhood almost upon them, expressed disbelief that it would actually happen. For others, the joy was tempered by the what lies ahead: Building a multiethnic society and lifting themselves out of poverty and 50 percent unemployment.
But new posters implored people — ethnic Albanians, at least — to relax and enjoy the moment.
"Celebrate with dignity," read the posters, illustrated with bright red hearts.
_______________________________________________________________
I suppose my question is this...........Is it the Kosovar leadership that does not want to recognize the Serbian enclaves? In the article it said "Many ethnic Albanian Kosovars, their long-awaited nationhood almost upon them, expressed disbelief that it would actually happen. For others, the joy was tempered by the what lies ahead: Building a multiethnic society and lifting themselves out of poverty and 50 percent unemployment." I ask this question because I honestly do not know the answer, what will the ramifications for the the Serb enclaves? Are the Serbs not part of this 'multiethnic society' vision due to the 'history' there? Do the Serbs anticipate a repressive reign by the Albanian Kovosars? The Serbs appear to deny even recognizing this new arrangement, "In the Serbian capital Belgrade, about 1,000 protesters waved Serbian flags and chanted "Kosovo is the heart of Serbia." Officials ruled out any military response, but warned that Serbia would downgrade relations with any foreign government that recognizes Kosovo's independence."
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
It is my understand that the Kosovar leadership is denying ethnic Serbs the right to secede from the newly formed Kosovo and align themselves with Serbia and/or an independent state of their own. As it stands today, the Kosovar leadership believes that its people have the right to secede from a state they do not identify with while at the same time denying that right to Serbs within their own territory.
Just playing devil's advocate here (really just thinking)......How do you seeing this all working out exactly?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080217/ap_on_re_eu/kosovo_independence
From the article........"PRISTINA, Kosovo - Kosovo's parliament declared the disputed territory a nation on Sunday, mounting a historic bid to become an "independent and democratic state" backed by the U.S. and European allies but bitterly contested by Serbia and Russia.
. . . .
"Kosovo is a republic — an independent, democratic and sovereign state," Kosovo's parliament speaker Jakup Krasniqi said as the chamber burst into applause.
Serbia immediately denounced the declaration as illegal, and Russia also rejected it, demanding an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council."
From our Declaration of Independence.........
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation".
Serbia brutalized the people of Kosovo, so does that mean they forfeit any rights and privileges to Kosovo?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I'm not sure I understand your question. I foresee an independent Kosovo that continues to deny secession rights to Serbs within their borders. Are you asking me, rather, what I would like to see, ideally?
Serbia had no "rights and privileges" to Kosovo to begin with. The people in this region have every right to form their own state. However, excercising that right without recognizing it in others is the definition of hypocrisy. Ethnic Serbs living within the new state of Kosovo should have every opportunity to align themselves with the Serbian state or form their own independent nation.
I guess what I am saying is I do not understand the logistics of a Serb secession. Is there a Serb region, or are they scattered throughout Kovoso? How would such a secession have worked in our country after we declared independence from the British? Perhaps two different situations............I don't know, that is why I asked the question.
Again, see above. I'm not disagreeing with your logic, just wondering how it will 'work out.' The situation, again, sounds familiar. Does either side have any respect for life outside of their own ethnic group?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
It is my understanding that Serbs make up about 5% of Kosovo's population and that the majority live on the Northwest border, though many are scattered throughout the nation.
We had a similar large-scale secession by the Southern states, of course. That secession was squashed by violence. I'm not sure the situations are all that comparable, however.
Regardless, I fail to see why ethnic Serbs within Kosovo cannot align themselves with Serbia or form their own state.
That's a question beyond my knowledge as I'm not really familiar with the attitudes on either side beyond some of the basics. Obviously, ethnicity is of great importance to many on both sides. Whether or not there is a large-scale amount of animosity between the two populations, I'm not sure.
The majority of the serb minority in Kosovo are in a region bordering with Serbia. There is a tiny province on the other side of Kosovo bordering Macedonia, Strpce, which is serb. The rest are 'integrated' within the population of the rest of the country.
The serb provinces/regions of Kosovo still bordering with Serbia could easily secede and realign themselves with Serbia. It would be more difficult for Strpce.
When Kosovo had their automony withdrawn, a massive amount of albanians lost their jobs, there was ethnic cleansing, etc. One wonders if the Albanians will do the same with the Serbs now (even if they say they won't). The wounds of war are still fresh and most of them still have problems with the various ethnic groups.
However, the problem here is that different ethnic groups have lived alongside eachother for centuries, and are many places seriously intertwined into eachother. When people then become ethnic nationalists, who has claim to what land really? Who draws up the borders between the regions that are to decide for themselves? What about all those who then are trapped on the wrong side of a border? For Kosovo, it's not that difficult for the areas that are 90% + albanian. The areas with big serb minorities or even majorities are the tricky ones.
I think it would perhaps have been best if Kosovo had stayed formally under Serbia, but with a lot of internal self-rule, but I suppose the hostilities 10 years ago spoiled that. I'm not so sure two mutually hostile nationalistic nations is that good of an outcome. Kinda what I feel about Palestine too actually.
It will be interesting to see what happens internationally with recognition etc from other nations.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
good point. BUT...all the other countries/areas that suffered from Serb brutality gained independence long ago...and Kosovo has been seeking the same for over a decade. Serbia lost their grip on / control over Kosovo back then and Kosovo deserves its status as an independent nation. i dont think its totally comparible with Palestine, seeing as Serbia & Kosovo do have quite clear borders based on ethnic populations, and are not fighting over one "plot of land". (but i think you're right, a split involving ethnic minorities is never straightforward)
Thats interesting, where did you read about this?
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
Kosovo being placed where it is, I cant quite see how a free Kosovo is a hindrance unless the line was meant to go to Albania. If it is to reach a mediterranean port, they have to go through Montenegro, Bosnia or Greece anyway...
They dont live that seperately, really. There have always been serbs all over the area with a gradual influx of ethnic albanians over the centuries. There are areas that are 90% albanian, but also many areas that are much more evenly divided, or even with a Serb majority. I dont think the comparisons to Palestine are that far off, although they arent completely alike of course.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I found this map of the distribution of ethnic Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo that helped me out a bit http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249034.stm#map
I also stumbled across this: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVC1KMTOgwiSoMQyT2LwZc9HyAgA
I realize the US supports the Kosovo secession. Why not a secession of its own?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
The thought has crossed my mind...........What would NATO do if (or when) Russia decides to get involved with the Serbs and station their troops inside Serbia? Would Russia lend/lease the material needed to reclaim Kosovo? Do you have a recent link, btw?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Should check that out.