What are churches views on phych drugs?

THC

I had a good conversation the other day w/ someone concerning how religious folk...and churches are viewing psych drugs.

More and more people all the time are being put on them. In the past the Churches,etc. (used in this sense to sum up most organized religions) was very negative against drugs and alcohol as it took people away from their spiritual side. Shouldn't organized religions be taking a more pro-active stance against the blantant over prescription of psych drugs to the mass public? - Do these drugs not take you away from your more spiritual side?

Is not 17 million children on ADHD drugs a spiritual attack?

i'm not saying they're aren't cases for some people to be on some kinds of meds. However...I really am beginning to believe these major drug companies (some of which have profits that are larger then many countries' GDP's) are hurting our general spirituality and are a subtle but very direct way of control!

surferdude

I think churches should be more concerned with the poor around the world. People on ADHD drugs pale in comparison to the need to feed, clothe and shelter the poor. I'd love the church to do these three things exceptionally well, then worry about finding God. I'm pretty sure that in doing these three things well they'll find God so it doesn't need to be a priority.

In general, churches lose their way when they get caught on small, governmental regulation type issues.

THC

surferdude wrote:

I think churches should be more concerned with the poor around the world. People on ADHD drugs pale in comparison to the need to feed, clothe and shelter the poor. I'd love the church to do these three things exceptionally well, then worry about finding God. I'm pretty sure that in doing these three things well they'll find God so it doesn't need to be a priority.

In general, churches lose their way when they get caught on small, governmental regulation type issues.

good points....

i think its a issue that's way bigger then people are giving it though.

how can a "disease" that wasn't around 20 years ago....now claim 17 million children alone?

hippiemom

THC wrote:

good points....

i think its a issue that's way bigger then people are giving it though.

how can a "disease" that wasn't around 20 years ago....now claim 17 million children alone?

I recently read an article in our local paper about how Case-Western Reserve University has had to hire additional psychiatric staff because 25% of their incoming students are taking some type of psychiatric drug, typically for either ADHD or depression.

25% of college students are mentally ill enough to require medication?!?!! I find that rather hard to believe. I understand that depression has been historically under-diagnosed and, as you mentioned, attention disorders weren't even recognized a generation ago, but still .... one in four students need to be drugged to get through their day?

Either we are producing a generation of severely screwed up people, or our medical establishment is firmly in the hands of the drug manufacturers and is neglecting the true needs of the patients. No matter which way you look at it, it's a sign of a very sick society.

PJfanFORlife

hippiemom wrote:

or our medical establishment is firmly in the hands of the drug manufacturers and is neglecting the true needs of the patients. No matter which way you look at it, it's a sign of a very sick society.

this is reason.

most physicians are quick to prescribe patients on drugs rather than find the cause and cure it

El_Kabong

read this book and you will understand why
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380633132/sr=8-1/qid=1151708441/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2583445-4756156?ie=UTF8

Laz

surferdude wrote:

I think churches should be more concerned with the poor around the world. People on ADHD drugs pale in comparison to the need to feed, clothe and shelter the poor. I'd love the church to do these three things exceptionally well, then worry about finding God. I'm pretty sure that in doing these three things well they'll find God so it doesn't need to be a priority.

In general, churches lose their way when they get caught on small, governmental regulation type issues.

So you don't think churches aren't concerned with the world's poor? Are you basing this on the fact that there are poor people or have you been to a lot of churches that don't give a flip about the poor? are you currently a member at a church? If so, then is your church unconcerned? If not, then you're just assuming and generalizing of something you don't have first hand experience with.

Who said going to church was about finding God anyhow?

DCGARDEN

Well, we certainly know Tom Cruise's Church is against pre-scription drugs...................

Commy

Laz wrote:

So you don't think churches aren't concerned with the world's poor? Are you basing this on the fact that there are poor people or have you been to a lot of churches that don't give a flip about the poor? are you currently a member at a church? If so, then is your church unconcerned? If not, then you're just assuming and generalizing of something you don't have first hand experience with.

Who said going to church was about finding God anyhow?

I'd go with that. The Vatican has some of the most luxurious buildings and churches in the world, and almost every inner city church has extravagantly lavished decor.

Yet, their are millions dying from cheaply curable diseases...

looks like they could be doing a lot more

Laz

Commy wrote:

I'd go with that. The Vatican has some of the most luxurious buildings and churches in the world, and almost every inner city church has extravagantly lavished decor.

Yet, their are millions dying from cheaply curable diseases...

looks like they could be doing a lot more

I'm not here to defend or condemn lavish worship structures, but I will ask this:

What are we doing about it, other than complaining about churches?

angelica

hippiemom wrote:

Either we are producing a generation of severely screwed up people, or our medical establishment is firmly in the hands of the drug manufacturers and is neglecting the true needs of the patients. No matter which way you look at it, it's a sign of a very sick society.

You can say that again!

This issue gets me up in the mornings! It blows my mind that we know how to psychologically solve basically each psychiatric disorder, and yet, for a combination of reasons, the messed-up-masses whose number continues to grow are getting FURTHER away from solving their problems. This partially due to distorted advertising and the flawed idea that is firmly planted in the collective North American consciousness, saying that chemical imbalances are genetic. The truth is the PREDISPOSITION to such disorders is/may be genetic. The predisposition may come out, and it may also NOT! And if it comes out, IT MAY ALSO GO AWAY. This depends on the environment and the level of coping skills of the patient--both which the patient has an ability to dramatically affect, right on into recovery. Unfortunately, this idea is lost. It looks like someone just might have to write a book about it.

A major aspect to this is that by taking the objective medical view of "chemical imbalances" which are "solved" by medication, many, many people from psychiatrists, to pharmaceutical companies are getting rich and have no need to look for a "better way". Or they have no need to switch to a way that might eventually put their own selves our of business. Add to this that the experts believe what they are taught--even when it is flawed--afterall, it's the "expertise". The patients who are looking to authority figures/"experts" for help, because they are told they are not of sound mind themselves due to being "inherently flawed and imbalanced" are taught/encouraged to trust in those who do not have their best interests at heart. It's infuriating to be trapped in that life, and it's infuriating for me to see it playing out at GREAT detriment to humanity. I once believed I would be on medication for my life, as I was "genetically flawed". In the end, I REAL-ise I'm actually quite competent. What this INSANE state of affairs does is takes away the personal power of the individual to solve the problem.

If we put our energy into the idea that we are flawed and need to be rebalanced by medication, we seal our fate. As the original poster alluded to and that I ENTIRELY agree with--when we look to solving the underlying psychological issues and when we heed our subjective, inner messages, we are led to our personal unfolding, which for many, (especially those with psychiatric predispositions) includes a natural sense of inner mysticism and spirituality. That untapped and natural spiritual giftedness is often tragically medicated away and stifled by labels and mis-treatment that perpetuates the imbalance/medication cycles. Rather than being taught to access and appreciate a deep inner sensitivity and giftedness that can BENEFIT humanity, these individuals are taught they are sick and flawed.


I also believe these medications can be a life saver and are often highly necessary and valid. They are a crutch, to be put into place until the patient is stable enough to "walk" on their own. They do not solve the underlying problems. Unfortunately, our sick objective-obsessed society, --a society who was raised on/programmed by advertising, does literally not know it's own mind, but instead accepts the ugly fallout of many deeply flawed systems as the truth.

Meatwagon

I remember a day when I was a bit younger and energetic and creative and couldn't sit still for more that a split second!!!! Grandma used to joke about bottling up all that energy so she could sell it and we would be rich. Now we take all that energy and creativity and subdue the hell out of while someone else gets rich. Poor grandma.

El_Kabong

Meatwagon wrote:

I remember a day when I was a bit younger and energetic and creative and couldn't sit still for more that a split second!!!! Grandma used to joke about bottling up all that energy so she could sell it and we would be rich. Now we take all that energy and creativity and subdue the hell out of while someone else gets rich. Poor grandma.

i know...i thought kids were supposed to have a lot of energy? maybe i should put my 2 puppies on some medication...they're all over the place

Meatwagon

I've got 4 of the little machines who run and jump and play and read and whatever. Not a bottle of meds in the house to treat their "disorder". They do well in school and have a plenty of confidence and self-esteem to go around. I see kids their same age doing the same things who are labeled with ADHD or whatever, and all most of these kids need is a playground and a stick. GO PLAY AND BE CREATIVE....poor grandma

surferdude

Laz wrote:

So you don't think churches aren't concerned with the world's poor? Are you basing this on the fact that there are poor people or have you been to a lot of churches that don't give a flip about the poor? are you currently a member at a church? If so, then is your church unconcerned? If not, then you're just assuming and generalizing of something you don't have first hand experience with.

Who said going to church was about finding God anyhow?

Mine was not a critique of the church. Only that they should be more concerned with the poor. I'm a very New Testament type guy, where the two most important laws are love God and love thy neighbour. Every time I see any church getting so caught up in things like gay marriage while there are still people dieing from lack of food and potable water I see a church that has lost focus of one and possibly both of the most important laws. The church i attend is no different in this regard. Thet are concerned but easily sidetracked.

And I would hope that it is the goal of everyone attending church to find God.

angelica

surferdude wrote:

Mine was not a critique of the church. Only that they should be more concerned with the poor. I'm a very New Testament type guy, where the two most important laws are love God and love thy neighbour. Every time I see any church getting so caught up in things like gay marriage while there are still people dieing from lack of food and potable water I see a church that has lost focus of one and possibly both of the most important laws. The church i attend is no different in this regard. Thet are concerned but easily sidetracked.

And I would hope that it is the goal of everyone attending church to find God.

I like this post--it is quite apt, indeed. (imo)

Laz

surferdude wrote:

Mine was not a critique of the church. Only that they should be more concerned with the poor. I'm a very New Testament type guy, where the two most important laws are love God and love thy neighbour. Every time I see any church getting so caught up in things like gay marriage while there are still people dieing from lack of food and potable water I see a church that has lost focus of one and possibly both of the most important laws. The church i attend is no different in this regard. Thet are concerned but easily sidetracked.

And I would hope that it is the goal of everyone attending church to find God.

Those 2 are not the most important laws, I think what Jesus said was that you could sum up the Law in those 2 commandments, a subtle but important difference. You can't do the second without doing the first. Remember our 'neighbor' includes those we disagree with and even our enemies, a hard one to swallow

how is your church getting caught up in gay 'marriage'? is your church preventing herself from going out to the least of these by focusing so much on gay 'marriage?'

AngelofIndifference

First let me say that I am a mental health professional who has spent years working in residential care for mental health and mental retardation, children’s homes, hospitals, and now an acute care facility that is the first non hospital based extended acute care program in the United States.

Having said that, here is the problem… First we still don't know everything we can about various disorders and information is changing everyday. Secondly most insurance companies still don't cover half of mental health disorders and often times patients are misdiagnosed in order to keep them able to get any treatment even if it's not the correct treatment. It's important to know that most mental health patients are on government assistance. Thirdly problems occur when people who need treatment can't get it, people who get it get the wrong treatment, and finally the people who are getting treatment aren't being treated as a whole person. What I mean is that they may have, for example, voices in their head so they are given pills to cope but they are lacking recovery that incorporates the treatment of mind, body, and spirit.

I am in a unique opportunity to be apart of this new residential type setting where we are not only treating patients with medication, but with various creative therapies, educating them, and teaching them to express their own spirituality as they see fit with the goal of recovery and independence in mind for them. The idea is to bring balance to the recovery process. So you see the real problem is that until this country believes in treating the whole being and not just the symptoms of this messed up society we live in, we remain out of balance and for lack of a better word, sick. As for the churches role in this, if they want to really help they should support that balance of recovery be providing a healthy spiritual outlet free of judgment and fear and realize that spirituality alone will not necessarily heal the body and the mind.

I'll leave you with this... “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
Buddha

angelica

AngelofIndifference wrote:

First let me say that I am a mental health professional who has spent years working in residential care for mental health and mental retardation, children’s homes, hospitals, and now an acute care facility that is the first non hospital based extended acute care program in the United States.

Having said that, here is the problem… First we still don't know everything we can about various disorders and information is changing everyday. Secondly most insurance companies still don't cover half of mental health disorders and often times patients are misdiagnosed in order to keep them able to get any treatment even if it's not the correct treatment. It's important to know that most mental health patients are on government assistance. Thirdly problems occur when people who need treatment can't get it, people who get it get the wrong treatment, and finally the people who are getting treatment aren't being treated as a whole person. What I mean is that they may have, for example, voices in their head so they are given pills to cope but they are lacking recovery that incorporates the treatment of mind, body, and spirit.

I am in a unique opportunity to be apart of this new residential type setting where we are not only treating patients with medication, but with various creative therapies, educating them, and teaching them to express their own spirituality as they see fit with the goal of recovery and independence in mind for them. The idea is to bring balance to the recovery process. So you see the real problem is that until this country believes in treating the whole being and not just the symptoms of this messed up society we live in, we remain out of balance and for lack of a better word, sick. As for the churches role in this, if they want to really help they should support that balance of recovery be providing a healthy spiritual outlet free of judgment and fear and realize that spirituality alone will not necessarily heal the body and the mind.

I'll leave you with this... “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
Buddha

Thanks for that.

miller8966

Commy wrote:

I'd go with that. The Vatican has some of the most luxurious buildings and churches in the world, and almost every inner city church has extravagantly lavished decor.

Yet, their are millions dying from cheaply curable diseases...

looks like they could be doing a lot more

why is it only the vatican? Ive seen some pretty nice mosques too....

A Surprise Left

surferdude wrote:

I think churches should be more concerned with the poor around the world. People on ADHD drugs pale in comparison to the need to feed, clothe and shelter the poor. I'd love the church to do these three things exceptionally well, then worry about finding God. I'm pretty sure that in doing these three things well they'll find God so it doesn't need to be a priority.

In general, churches lose their way when they get caught on small, governmental regulation type issues.

A church's reason for being is a place for people to "find God". Helping the poor and so forth is meant to spring forth out of that, although this is VERY, VERY important work. If a church becomes primarily concerned with helping the poor it goes down the track toward irrevelance IMO.

angelica

A Surprise Left wrote:

A church's reason for being is a place for people to "find God". Helping the poor and so forth is meant to spring forth out of that, although this is VERY, VERY important work. If a church becomes primarily concerned with helping the poor it goes down the track toward irrevelance IMO.

By definition, wouldn't the idea behind a Christian church be that one has already found the way to God, through Jesus? Isn't the task about aspiring to the path Jesus laid out for people? Jesus already provides the blueprint, when we decide to accept it--and when we internalise this blueprint, it's not about judgment (which we are not equipped to do according to Jesus), but about Love and compassion for everyone.