U.S. biggest Arms dealer in world - thoughts?

THC
THC Posts: 525
edited August 2007 in A Moving Train
I was wondering what people think (esp. Americans) of the fact that the United States is the biggest arms dealer in the world. This thread comes from the recent news that the U.S. is going to be selling billions of dollars of arms to both Saudi Arabia and Isreal.

what do people think of this? is this responsible? does it matter? is the U.S. just hedging its bets?
“Kept in a small bowl, the goldfish will remain small. With more space, the fish can grow double, triple, or quadruple its size.”
-Big Fish
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    it is insight into what drives US foreign policy ... everything starts here so to speak ...
  • THC
    THC Posts: 525
    polaris wrote:
    it is insight into what drives US foreign policy ... everything starts here so to speak ...

    what i don't like is how economics supercedes security. yes, some u.s. corp. will make millions and millions on these deals, and we may have a say now in what that country does, however, if the U.S. was the only one w/ all the expensive arms we produce and other nations didn't have that stuff....theoretically we would be much more secure. Hell...we used to sell Bin Ladin weapons to fight the Russians...and that came back to bite us in the ass. Also, i've heard when we got to Iraq...have the 'weapon's' they did have were old tanks and stuff made in the U.S.
    “Kept in a small bowl, the goldfish will remain small. With more space, the fish can grow double, triple, or quadruple its size.”
    -Big Fish
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    THC wrote:
    what i don't like is how economics supercedes security. yes, some u.s. corp. will make millions and millions on these deals, and we may have a say now in what that country does, however, if the U.S. was the only one w/ all the expensive arms we produce and other nations didn't have that stuff....theoretically we would be much more secure. Hell...we used to sell Bin Ladin weapons to fight the Russians...and that came back to bite us in the ass. Also, i've heard when we got to Iraq...have the 'weapon's' they did have were old tanks and stuff made in the U.S.

    security is a misnomer ... the only threat to US "security" is in its ability to exploit other countries resources and labour ...
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    it's a capitalistic country so corporations manufacture weapons instead of the government. Thusly, they are always looking to expand their markets. People tend to like being employed and earn money.

    Regardless, the AK47 is probably the most popular and or ubiquitous weapon in the world and it's Russian and Chinese.

    Generally, it's just a fun fact it dosen't really mean anything one way or the other except that the US produces a lot of weapons some of the only things we still manufacture in the US. Kind of a holdover from the Cold War but generally in a global economy (-tarriffs and price supports) the people who produce the best value product generally produce the most because that product is what the market demands.

    Most armies/terrorist groups/freedom fighters/ police forces etc. of the world not in NATO are generally armed by old weapons from the USSR or from China.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • THC
    THC Posts: 525
    polaris wrote:
    security is a misnomer ... the only threat to US "security" is in its ability to exploit other countries resources and labour ...

    I don't quite understand your point here. do you mean the U.S. tries to secure the country by exploiting other countries resources and labour?

    I actually think the gov't believes that the country will be more secure if we have a say in who gets what...and when. In that respect...they think we will always have our hand in the pot so to speak.

    and to the other post. yeah, i can def. see the economic part of it all...i just don't like the potential for war peliferation...it will inevitably lead to. Weapons eventually need to be used...otherwise buying them was pointless.
    “Kept in a small bowl, the goldfish will remain small. With more space, the fish can grow double, triple, or quadruple its size.”
    -Big Fish
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    THC wrote:
    I don't quite understand your point here. do you mean the U.S. tries to secure the country by exploiting other countries resources and labour?

    I actually think the gov't believes that the country will be more secure if we have a say in who gets what...and when. In that respect...they think we will always have our hand in the pot so to speak.

    and to the other post. yeah, i can def. see the economic part of it all...i just don't like the potential for war peliferation...it will inevitably lead to. Weapons eventually need to be used...otherwise buying them was pointless.

    it means there are no real threats to the US except in regards to available markets and resources ... it means that there are arms deals that are for "general defense" type situations and then there are arms deals that are done in the name of maintaining a favourable political climate ...

    you spend more then anyone in the world on defence not because you are more threatened then anyone rather because the gov't is controlled by these interests ...
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    Regardless, the AK47 is probably the most popular and or ubiquitous weapon in the world and it's Russian and Chinese.

    Most armies/terrorist groups/freedom fighters/ police forces etc. of the world not in NATO are generally armed by old weapons from the USSR or from China.
    ...
    Actually... the AK-47 (and derivatives) are manufactured in places outside of Russia and China. Copies are made in Poland, Egypt, Bulgaria, Iran, Pakistan, India... all over the place... even in Iraq.
    from what I understand, because of the monster tolerances in the design, they are reliable and durable and easy to manufacture and maintain... downside being they are not very accurate... especially at longer ranges.
    The best ones are the actual Kalashnikovs made in Russia... ones that show up at Iraqi weddings and soccer celebrations are probably made local to the region... most likely, Egypt.
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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Watch "Lord of War" with Nick Cage. Great movie.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,242
    I agree it was very good

    Peace
    Earle
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    g under p wrote:
    I agree it was very good

    Peace
    Earle

    I loved when he finally got busted, and then told the guy exactly what was going to take place... i.e. let me tell you something....in 5 mins a guy is going to walk through the door and tell you this them I'm going to...

    (don't want to spoil the movie too much)

    wasn't that part screaming reality...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • 69charger
    69charger Posts: 1,045
    THC wrote:
    I was wondering what people think (esp. Americans) of the fact that the United States is the biggest arms dealer in the world. This thread comes from the recent news that the U.S. is going to be selling billions of dollars of arms to both Saudi Arabia and Isreal.

    what do people think of this? is this responsible? does it matter? is the U.S. just hedging its bets?

    Supply vs. Demand! There is a demand so we supply. That's capitalism!

    I have a gun or two I'd like to sell or trade right now :D
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    69charger wrote:
    Supply vs. Demand! There is a demand so we supply. That's capitalism!

    I have a gun or two I'd like to sell or trade right now :D


    so, if canada or the uk or somewhere sold weapons to iran it would be ok, right?




    i can't imagine it being any different now but when clinton was president the US supplied more than 1/2 of the weapons to the 3rd world...try selling your dream of capitalism to their families
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
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    someone above the crowd
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  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    I find that extremely troubling. The biggest sellers are occidental democracies who fight the war against terror and generally try to give moral lessons to "thug countries" (France is the first seller to 3rd world countries).
    Not only is it stupid and hypocrite to sell weapons it clearly shows none of these democracies wish to end wars anytime soon - regardless of the feelings of the people of said countries.
  • 69charger
    69charger Posts: 1,045
    El_Kabong wrote:
    so, if canada or the uk or somewhere sold weapons to iran it would be ok, right?

    Absolutely not! They are the competition! We should! ;)
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    We're only Number One because the Soviet Union broke up....they were in the top spot.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    tybird wrote:
    We're only Number One because the Soviet Union broke up....they were in the top spot.

    So? That's not relevant. I didn't expect much less from communists, they eat babies after all.
    But occidental democracies, with their holier than thou attitudes should stop fuelling conflicts throughout the world, especially while leading a war on terror. That's the biggest problem (imo of course).
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    Kann wrote:
    So? That's not relevant. I didn't expect much less from communists, they eat babies after all.
    But occidental democracies, with their holier than thou attitudes should stop fuelling conflicts throughout the world, especially while leading a war on terror. That's the biggest problem (imo of course).
    Yes, it is. They dropped out of the race (in a fashion), but we never got over the mentality of the race. We love that $$$$.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    I wonder... how do gun advocates feel about Iraq... I mean, their rights to guns. Because seriously, can you think of any other place where you would want.. no, NEED a gun for protection other than Baghdad? Can anyone think of a criminal worse than an insurgent with a shoulder mounted grenade launcher?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!

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