McCain Slips And Admits Truth of JFK Assassination? WTF Is This?

DriftingByTheStorm

ahh.
fuck it.
maybe he does say "of" the tragedy in dallas.
u be the judge

"intervention OF the tragedy in dallas"
or
"intervention, [stumble], the tragedy in dallas."

???

Encuentro

He made a mistake.

The truth is that Oswald did it, and he acted alone. The evidence that Oswald was the lone assassin is overwhelming. The Warren Commission got it right.

The so-called "evidence" for a conspiracy is flimsy at best.

DriftingByTheStorm

Encuentro wrote:

He made a mistake.

The truth is that Oswald did it, and he acted alone. The evidence that Oswald was the lone assassin is overwhelming. The Warren Commission got it right.

The so-called "evidence" for a conspiracy is flimsy at best.

Wow.
I'd LOVE to argue that one with you.

But i'll give you just one question to start with.

If Oswald did it alone, and with no connections to the CIA,
who was framing Oswald in Mexico just several months before the assassination.

here is a summary of many of those events.

On TWO occasions Oswald was impersonated, and on BOTH occasions the CIA was there to record (one with photo, one with tape) the incident.

Then, the day after the assassinaton, LBJ is on the phone asking JEH about Oswald in Mexico, and Hoover concedes that indeed the man on tape talking to the KGB assassin is indeed NOT Oswald, even though he identifies himself as such.

And conveniently, the CIA claims their tapes of the conversation were "routinely deleted".

So, if Oswald had NO connections to the CIA and was just a lone nut,
WHY WAS THE CIA SO CLOSELY FOLLOWING HIM IN MEXICO BEFORE THE ASASSINATION, and why was he FRAMED TWICE?

That should be enough "evidence" to get you thinking twice about Oswald acting alone.

The CIA doesn't follow you and record your conversations, and you don't get framed TWICE, if you are acting alone.

And why does everyone and their mother reference David Atlee Phillips, including E Howard Hunt. And why did LBJ's own henchman, Billy Sol Estes, name JFK as one of the EIGHT people that LBJ had killed?

There are just too many credible people who have too many credible accusations for me to believe Oswald was acting alone.

Here is another one for you,
why did Gerald Ford alter the reports to move JFKs back wound location so that it fit the "single bullet theory"? What kind of honest investigation is THAT?

???

PS - OH, and EXPLAIN THIS DAMNING STATEMENT BY JACK RUBY ! ! !

People in VERY HIGH PLACES ???
Truth never be allowed to surface?

WTF?

HELLO !

MCFLY!

PPS - here is a fascinating short article by the legendary Bertrand Russell ...
16 Questions On The Assassination ... that you may want to read.

And that was written within the year after the murder.
You don't think there are a few more questions about it now?

How about the fact that almost everyone Oswald knew was in the intelligence agencies, from Guy Banister, to David Ferrie, to Clay Shaw, to George DeMohrenschildt (who magically killed himself under highly suspicious circumstances right before his HSCA testimony), to the allegations that he was being supervised by David Atlee Phillips himself.

?

Encuentro

The CIA may have been interested in Oswald, because he was a part of the Fair Play for Cuba movement. He was very outspoken with his views. Oswald went out of his way to get noticed. He was handing out Fair Play for Cuba pamphlets in New Orleans where his views were very contraversial. This resulted in an altercation. Oswald was interviewed both on television and the radio about his views. This taking place at the height of the Cold War, a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis, it's no wonder the CIA was interested in Oswald.

Is there any real evidence that Ford doctored any documents or is that something that was invented by one of the countless pro-conspiracy books that have flooded the market since the assassination? One bullet caused seven wounds to both Kennedy and Connelly. There were four entry wounds and three exit wounds. Objective research has shown that it was one bullet and that that bullet could have come from nowhere else but the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Encuentro

Yes, there are lots of questions, but those questions are usually raised and spun by those who support the idea of a conspiracy. I was one of those people at one time. I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a conspiracy. Eventually, I looked at the evidence objectively and came to the conclusion that there was no conspiracy and the evidence pointed to Oswald being the lone assassin. When questions such as the ones you have raised are compiled in countless books with the intention of proving a "conspiracy" and pro-conspiracy documentaries and Oliver Stones very misleading film, it makes anything other than a conspiracy look ridiculous. There are always going to be questions raised about a national tragedy. It doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy. It just means there are questions yet to be answered. When you look at the facts of the assassination itself, it is evident that Oswald did it.

ledvedderman

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Wow.
I'd LOVE to argue that one with you.

But i'll give you just one question to start with.

If Oswald did it alone, and with no connections to the CIA,
who was framing Oswald in Mexico just several months before the assassination.

here is a summary of many of those events.

On TWO occasions Oswald was impersonated, and on BOTH occasions the CIA was there to record (one with photo, one with tape) the incident.

Then, the day after the assassinaton, LBJ is on the phone asking JEH about Oswald in Mexico, and Hoover concedes that indeed the man on tape talking to the KGB assassin is indeed NOT Oswald, even though he identifies himself as such.

And conveniently, the CIA claims their tapes of the conversation were "routinely deleted".

So, if Oswald had NO connections to the CIA and was just a lone nut,
WHY WAS THE CIA SO CLOSELY FOLLOWING HIM IN MEXICO BEFORE THE ASASSINATION, and why was he FRAMED TWICE?

That should be enough "evidence" to get you thinking twice about Oswald acting alone.

The CIA doesn't follow you and record your conversations, and you don't get framed TWICE, if you are acting alone.

And why does everyone and their mother reference David Atlee Phillips, including E Howard Hunt. And why did LBJ's own henchman, Billy Sol Estes, name JFK as one of the EIGHT people that LBJ had killed?

There are just too many credible people who have too many credible accusations for me to believe Oswald was acting alone.

Here is another one for you,
why did Gerald Ford alter the reports to move JFKs back wound location so that it fit the "single bullet theory"? What kind of honest investigation is THAT?

???

PS - OH, and EXPLAIN THIS DAMNING STATEMENT BY JACK RUBY ! ! !

People in VERY HIGH PLACES ???
Truth never be allowed to surface?

WTF?

HELLO !

MCFLY!

PPS - here is a fascinating short article by the legendary Bertrand Russell ...
16 Questions On The Assassination ... that you may want to read.

And that was written within the year after the murder.
You don't think there are a few more questions about it now?

How about the fact that almost everyone Oswald knew was in the intelligence agencies, from Guy Banister, to David Ferrie, to Clay Shaw, to George DeMohrenschildt (who magically killed himself under highly suspicious circumstances right before his HSCA testimony), to the allegations that he was being supervised by David Atlee Phillips himself.

?

That's one hell of a "one question". I'm with you on this one though Drifting. Warren commission is total garbage. Even the biggest non-conspiracy types know it is bogus.

DriftingByTheStorm

Encuentro wrote:

The CIA may have been interested in Oswald, because he was a part of the Fair Play for Cuba movement. He was very outspoken with his views. Oswald went out of his way to get noticed. He was handing out Fair Play for Cuba pamphlets in New Orleans where his views were very contraversial. This resulted in an altercation. Oswald was interviewed both on television and the radio about his views. This taking place at the height of the Cold War, a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis, it's no wonder the CIA was interested in Oswald.

ALL of that stuff you mentioned had US INTELLIGENCE written ALL over it.
1. The man Oswald got in an altercation with had known intelligence connections, himself.

2. There was NO reason for a film crew to be filming oswald on EITHER the occasion of the altercation, OR the time he was photographed handing out those flyers. It screams intelligence.

3. There are actual known intelligence operatives standing directly behind oswald in the photographs (Chauncey Holt being the most of note) ... you can look at that stuff here ... you might also want to download the "Kennedy Murder Collection" torrent, and watch the entire interview with Chauncey Holt, because it will blow your mind.

4. The entire altercation between Oswald seems most probably a deliberate intelligence plan to GET NOTICED. They marched both Oswald and the man he was fighting (name elludes me) down to the police station to get fingerprinted, and then they were both released. Hmm.

5. There were PLENTY of people involved with Fair Play for Cuba, why the HELL would the CIA trail the ONE guy in a chapter of FP4C that he had started HIMSELF, with NO MEMBERS BUT HIMSELF ... if you were intelligence, and you were going to follow a group of Pro-Cuban protestors, would you waste your time following the idiot who had a chapter with NO MEMBERS, or would you focus on ANY other city with a Fair Play chapter that had legitimate and large membership base?

AND YOU STILL DIDN'T EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT OSWALD WAS FRAMED TWICE, not once, TWICE, and the CIA was there to record it.

Encuentro wrote:

Is there any real evidence that Ford doctored any documents or is that something that was invented by one of the countless pro-conspiracy books that have flooded the market since the assassination.

at the top of this page are the ACTUAL DOCUMENTS with the ACTUAL HAND WRITING OF FORD and then you can go here, NEW YORK TIMES: Ford Made Key Change In Kennedy Death Report ...
i URGE you to read the actual changes Ford made, because they are INEXCUSABLE! Read them from the "conspiratorial" POV and ask yourself how anyone could make those changes in an HONEST fashion.

Encuentro wrote:

One bullet caused seven wounds to both Kennedy and Connelly. There were four entry wounds and three exit wounds. Objective research has shown that it was one bullet and that that bullet could have come from nowhere else but the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

You really believe the Single Bullet Theory?
Really?
THIS BULLET ???

DID ALL THIS?

wiki wrote:

The bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone.

Did you look at that bullet
???

And HOW many times did Connally change his story?
it was SEVERAL times, fyi. First he turned and saw the president, then he didn't. First he heard a noise and looked, then he got hit, felt the pain, then looked. Bizarre, to say the least.


Man, HONESTLY, i have NO problems with being SKEPTICAL of "crazy conspiracy theories", but there is SO MUCH surrounding JFK that it is overwhelming.

It is impossible to get in to earnest investigation of that murder, and NOT come to the conclusion that the government was VERY much involved.

Here is just one more humorous bit of info:
When New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison brought Clay Shaw to trial, his entire body of evidence was "back and to the left", the Zapruder film. However his SUSPICION was that Clay Shaw was a CIA intelligence asset. But he had NO PROOF.

FORTY YEARS LATER, declassified documents PROVE that Clay Shaw was a LONG TIME CIA ASSET.

Just kind've bizarre, right?

I'M JUST A PATSY!

New Science Casts More Doubt on Single Bullet Claim

Destroying the official story about 544 Camp St. ... if Oswald was PRO-castro, and working out of the OTHER side of the building, in a SEPERATE office, why the hell was he printing leaflets with the address of Guy banister's office, and why was he IN BANISTER'S OFFICE??? The guy was ANTI-Castro, and he was also Ex-FBI!

Oswald's CIA Debriefing. He did NOT defect to russia, he was SENT there by US Intelligence.

Encuentro

I didn't answer your question about why he was framed twice, because I don't have the answers.

You've given me a lot to sort through and for the sake of objectivity, I'll look into it.

As far as the bullet you provided the link for, I've seen it before, and although often referred to as "pristine" or "nearly pristine" it is really nothing of the sort. The bullet is damaged though not quite as damaged as conspiracy theorists would have us believe it should be.

Connally's story doesn't change in the Zapruder film. His face says it all, and it is recorded for history. His face shows excrutiating pain just as Kennedy is bringing his hands up to his throat, consistent with one bullet hitting both of them.

Another thing the Zapruder film shows is the front part of Kennedy's head being blasted out which is consistent with a shot from the rear despite the fact that his head jerks back and to the left. When a bullet enters, it enters small. When it exits, it leaves a much larger wound. It appears in the Zapruder film that the bullet is exiting from the front of Kennedy's head.

DriftingByTheStorm

Encuentro wrote:

I didn't answer your question about why he was framed twice, because I don't have the answers.

You've given me a lot to sort through and for the sake of objectivity, I'll look into it.

Yeah. Sorry. I spent about a full year watching Kennedy assassination documentaries, and reading everything i could get my hands on.

I highly encourage you to check out these torrents.

Encuentro wrote:

As far as the bullet you provided the link for, I've seen it before, and although often referred to as "pristine" or "nearly pristine" it is really nothing of the sort. The bullet is damaged though not quite as damaged as conspiracy theorists would have us believe it should be.

Connally's story doesn't change in the Zapruder film. His face says it all, and it is recorded for history. His face shows excrutiating pain just as Kennedy is bringing his hands up to his throat, consistent with one bullet hitting both of them.

Connaly most DEFINATELY changed his story.
HERE.
He said "I heard a shot, and turned to my left, and saw the president slumped." ... HE HEARD a shot, then turned, and THEN he says he was shot. So TWO SEPERATE BULLETS.

IF one bullet missed (according to the Warren commission, itself!), and TWO SEPERATE bullets hit connally and the president, then the head shot would be a FOURTH bullet.

Correct me if i am wrong, because we're getting in to hazy territory for me too ... i've simply watched and read too much to keep it all straight. But connally's story changed. If you watch The Men Who Killed Kennedy, you can watch them play the two testimonies side by side.

Here, destroying the single bullet theory ... i haven't watched it in a while, but i'm pretty sure it does a good job of showing you how fucked up the theory is.

Encuentro wrote:

Another thing the Zapruder film shows is the front part of Kennedy's head being blasted out which is consistent with a shot from the rear despite the fact that his head jerks back and to the left. When a bullet enters, it enters small. When it exits, it leaves a much larger wound. It appears in the Zapruder film that the bullet is exiting from the front of Kennedy's head.

The going theory accepted by most of the avant-garde on the JFK murder at this point (and the one similarly put forth by James Files, who claims to BE the shooter on the knoll) is that the gunman on the knoll was a BACKUP shooter, not intended to fire unless no kill shot had been placed before leaving the plaza.

If you watch the film in super slow motion (available on youtube) you can clearly see that kennedy's head DOES move FORWARD just slightly, before moving VIOLENTLY backwards. And if you look at the autopsy records, it is pretty clear that there is a massive gap in the BACK of kennedy's head ...

THE ASSUMPTION BEING that the knoll gunman fired nearly SIMULTANEOUSLY with the gunman from behind (thought by many to actually be coming from the Dal-Tech building [where Zapruder's office was, by the way], NOT the TSBD) and that the force of the weaker ordinary rifle fired from the greater distance was overwhelmed by the more violent force of the high powered rifle fired from close range from the knoll.

So that would account for your frontal exit ... TWO bullets fired at the same time.

And it would do a lot better job of explaining "back and to the left" than does the official story, which fails pathetically on that point.

DriftingByTheStorm

to clarify, connally's original position can be heard here at around the 2:30 mark.

He UNQUESTIONABLY says that he was SHOT BY A SEPERATE BULLET.

Of course, later his story DID CHANGE.
Unforunately, that doesn't seem to be freely available on youtube as a short clip.

But it is not of importance,
the important part is the ORIGINAL testimony that i have provided you, where Connally says in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, SEPERATE BULLETS!

But god forbid we take in to consideration the accounts of a man actually shot in the incident. He probably wouldn't know.
Right?