Viva Cuba! Leading The World Towards Sustainable Culture

RolandTD20Kdrummer

lol...true

jlew24asu

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Uh.
The environment.
Duh.

Once we've done our damage,
mother nature will cut us out of the picture.

:rolleyes:

oops I should have said, preserving the environment. mother nature will always win. I know that

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jlew24asu wrote:

oops I should have said, preserving the environment. mother nature will always win. I know that

you're drunk... admit it..

jlew24asu

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

you're drunk... admit it..

LOL

MakingWaves

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Hahahahha!
Buddy you have another thing or 20 coming.
It WILL happen in the US.
And a LOT sooner than you think, apparently.

Global peak oil will be here between 2010 and 2013 by ALL best estimates (and the first guy, Hubbel, to estimate was DEAD ON TO THE YEAR - 1970 - for US production) at that time YOU WILL SEE.

:rolleyes:

Oh to be young and ignorant again.
:(

Ummm..Ok, whatever dude. Money rules the world and guess what? You are delusional. I will be sure to message you in 2013 (yes i will give you the maximum of your prediction) and ask you why this tractor and farming equipment is still being used on the land behind my land. Trust me, I'm not worried about being wrong on this one.

MakingWaves

And if you needed more proof. Companies like Chevron or BP, if oil production or whatever was going to cause things such as farming equipment to cease to exist by 2013 they would be building and producing new sources of energy as I type this. Trust me, they know more then you and I about how much money they plan to make and where the oil reserves of the world stands as of today.
Where I work we are working on an expansion of an oil refinery that is planned to be completed in 2010. If they knew they wouldn't be making as much oil by then guess what.....they wouldn't be building it!

DriftingByTheStorm

MakingWaves wrote:

And if you needed more proof. Companies like Chevron or BP, if oil production or whatever was going to cause things such as farming equipment to cease to exist by 2013 they would be building and producing new sources of energy as I type this. Trust me, they know more then you and I about how much money they plan to make and where the oil reserves of the world stands as of today.
Where I work we are working on an expansion of an oil refinery that is planned to be completed in 2010. If they knew they wouldn't be making as much oil by then guess what.....they wouldn't be building it!

Peak Oil.
It's not some stupid internet theory.
It's widely discussed in scientific circles as an evident truth.

You can stand around and argue over dates with your head in the sand trying to ignore that truth, but the day of reckoning for global oil over-dependence is coming.

Do you choose to disbelieve the entire theory,
or you just some how think that because USA is the "greatest nation on earth" that we would never actually have to deal with reality like other people?

Or maybe you just don't like that i said 2013?
How bout 2023? Would you agree that we might be a little bit oil-fucked by 2023?

Sheesh.
:(

MakingWaves

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Peak Oil.
It's not some stupid internet theory.
It's widely discussed in scientific circles as an evident truth.

You can stand around and argue over dates with your head in the sand trying to ignore that truth, but the day of reckoning for global oil over-dependence is coming.

Do you choose to disbelieve the entire theory,
or you just some how think that because USA is the "greatest nation on earth" that we would never actually have to deal with reality like other people?

Or maybe you just don't like that i said 2013?
How bout 2023? Would you agree that we might be a little bit oil-fucked by 2023?

Sheesh.
:(

You are doing a lot of assuming about what I think and enough of this assuming people are macho USA dumbasses.

I understand the Peak Oil theory and of course one day this will become a major issue in the world, however I think you and some other people think it will be a lot sooner then it actually will.
And you are right, the part I didn't like was you saying 2013. There is no way we will be "oil-fucked" by 2013 and personally I think 2023 is too soon also.
Things I have read suggest we will be "oil-fucked" in about 40-50 years and I am willing to bet that by the time this rolls around companies will either have found a way to drill oil that is currently inaccesible or would have found alternative energies.
Money makes the world go around and some of the richest companies in the world will make damn sure they still have the capability of producing energy and making billions of dollars.

jlew24asu

I hope you are right waves. cuz right now, I do not see a usable, sustainable, replacement. but I do believe oil companies will continue to discover more oil as time goes on. nevertheless, its a problem that should not be ignored until it cant be anymore. I hope to see much more proactiveness.

Federico

Nice to read about Cuba here, since i am reading all this discussion from the third world...we tend to think that americans doesnt really know a shit about whats going on in the rest of the world (you know ..the typical Simpsonesque joke that shows a regular joe that cant even point Canadá on the map), so it is gratifying to see this....
Driftin, if you are more interested in some Cuban topics...try a little research on this name: Rodolfo Livingston. argentine architect whom has developed dramatical innovations in eco-friendly construction for homeless all around Cuba...

MakingWaves

jlew24asu wrote:

I hope you are right waves. cuz right now, I do not see a usable, sustainable, replacement. but I do believe oil companies will continue to discover more oil as time goes on. nevertheless, its a problem that should not be ignored until it cant be anymore. I hope to see much more proactiveness.

I agree 100% that it should not be ignored and I would love to see some alternate energy out there to stop our reliance on oil. I guess I just tend to think that sometimes these doomsday warnings also have a political agenda behind them in some way and that things are not as bad as they make it out to be.

Yoyoyo

MakingWaves wrote:

I agree 100% that it should not be ignored and I would love to see some alternate energy out there to stop our reliance on oil. I guess I just tend to think that sometimes these doomsday warnings also have a political agenda behind them in some way and that things are not as bad as they make it out to be.

A very large portion of the oil that is imported into the US is coming from Alberta oil sands, which has a consumption:production ratio of 1:1.1. The oil there will last a long time, but the cost of getting it out of the ground is going to start rising exponentially with natural gas reserves running low. Also, they are now forced to dig deeper and use very costly insitue extraction on the deeper tar beds. The easy sand won't last forever and neither will the cheap gas at the pump. Expect oil and gas prices to increase by 50% within the year.

Farming in the US is pretty much unprofitable without subsidies, the cost of inputs has exploded, partly due to control of GM seed by Monsanto and Cargill. These companies claim that the increase in yields, which has not been proven, relieve stress on the world's food shortage...but all it really does is put more of the worlds food production under their control.

DriftingByTheStorm

Mestophar wrote:

Farming in the US is pretty much unprofitable without subsidies

Farming in the US is pretty much unprofitable BECAUSE of subsidies.

That would be like saying
"My coke-head mother is pretty much unproductive without coke".

No. Your mother would actually be very productive, in all likelyhood, if she would just get off the fucking coke and straighten up her life. But the coke "works" for her, and she is addicted to it. So it looks like it does wonders for her.

I dunno.
I think this cuba video kind've proves that point.
Big tractors, mechanized harvester, all that equipment, and all that OIL to run those machines, along with all the big-oil fertilizers and pesticides and all the trucks and oil needed to transport california oranges to maine ... are EXPENSIVE.

THAT is why farmers need subsidies ... because in that kind've production environment, they ARE running in the red.

But Cuba proves that once the oil goes, and farmers STOP using that shit, and they start growing local and carting to market etc ... then the cost of farming goes down (and by the way, you can employ a shit ton more workers!), the quality of the produce improves imeasurabley, and the quality of the soil and the environment as a whole is greatly improved!

WOO!

Yoyoyo

Good point. Oranges should cost $15 per pound(or a value that is actually reflects the costs to produce and market them).

Can't get the video...