This Is How It Happens, Folks: The EU Treaty: Brown Surrenders Britain's Sovereignty

Heineken Helen

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Cheers, guy. I just hope the rest of Ireland is as strongly anti-Lisbon as me and Hels.

I doubt it :( I've a feeling it's gonna be a yes vote :mad:

Unsung... we're quite a different country compared to the Baltic states pre 1991... so are the UK.

Heineken Helen

I just realised this morning... it's incredibly ironic that the governments, who have been voted in by the people, don't trust the people to vote 'the right way'

RolandTD20Kdrummer

NMyTree wrote:

Drifting is just about always right on the money.

Ignore the silliness of Farmer (and the others), Drifting.

Agreed.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Typically, the seven (7) stages of grief are described as:

- Shock or Disbelief
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Guilt
- Depression
- Acceptance and Hope

I see the first three cycles of this play out here often. Some users are father along towards the end of the cycle, as others come into the earlier stages and loop around a few times before moving forward.

It can also be summarized more aptly as

1. Shock: Feeling numb. You may wake up wondering, "Is this real?"

2. Denial: Being unable to accept the situation. You may find yourself thinking, "This can't be happening. It's not real."

3. Anger: Wanting to lash out at everyone. You may continually ask, "How can this happen?"

4. Resolution and Hope

nuffingman

Heineken Helen wrote:

I just realised this morning... it's incredibly ironic that the governments, who have been voted in by the people, don't trust the people to vote 'the right way'

... and it's taken you how long? Has always been and always will. A bit of posturing bullshit, a few empty promises and some baby holding before an election, then treat us like mushrooms afterwards.

Heineken Helen

nuffingman wrote:

... and it's taken you how long? Has always been and always will. A bit of posturing bullshit, a few empty promises and some baby holding before an election, then treat us like mushrooms afterwards.

Oh Ive always known that.. but for them to come out and SAY it :eek: several times in several different forms... well that's fucking amazing!

Specifics

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh Ive always known that.. but for them to come out and SAY it :eek: several times in several different forms... well that's fucking amazing!

personally i liked the poetry in what you said.
I guess we're even

dunkman

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

British history.[/b] Despite a rebellion by 29 of its own backbenchers, the Labour-led government defeated a Conservative proposal to hold a popular vote on the Lisbon Treaty by 311 votes to 248 in the House of Commons on March 5. Brown's refusal to support a referendum represented a stunning reversal of the government's 2005 manifesto pledge to hold a plebiscite on the European Constitution.

29 backbenchers is in bold??? thats not a huge rebellion by any means... its less than 1/10th of the backbench.

labour defeated the motion in which all MP's have a vote... Conservatives are anti-Euro (by and large) so any integration with Europe will be contested.

the stunning reversal was a referendum on the European Constitution... the EC was abandoned in 2005... how can there be a referendum on an non-existent proposal?

the lisbon treaty does not have any constitutional bearing on the UK.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

the lisbon treaty does not have any constitutional bearing on the UK.

you sure about that? Have you read it?

good to see you know it all now

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

you sure about that? Have you read it?

good to see you know it all now

BBc News, no disrepect but they know more about it than you, said:-

Ireland and the UK currently have an opt-out from European policies concerning asylum, visas and immigration. Under the new treaty they will have the right to opt in or out of any policies in the entire field of justice and home affairs.

The government and the Lib Dems say the treaty does not have constitutional implications, so a referendum on it is not needed.

The government says most changes are minor and procedural and it has secured "opt-outs" where necessary.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

BBc News, no disrepect but they know more about it than you, said:-

Ireland and the UK currently have an opt-out from European policies concerning asylum, visas and immigration. Under the new treaty they will have the right to opt in or out of any policies in the entire field of justice and home affairs.

The government and the Lib Dems say the treaty does not have constitutional implications, so a referendum on it is not needed.

The government says most changes are minor and procedural and it has secured "opt-outs" where necessary.

Hmm... right! Yes we have a lot of opt outs... but not to everything! Also, the British govt sent troops to Iraq, do you think that was in the peoples best interests or what they wanted? do you just accept everything a government does on your behalf... cos hey, you voted for them? And yes, this trustworthy wonderful government says most changes are minor and procedural we all know governments never ever BEND the truth ever so slightly!

Kann

Heineken Helen wrote:

That's my main reason for voting no... that less than 1% get to decide the fate of the 100% simply cos our government is the only one with no choice BUT to have a referendum... and they want us to vote our vote away... 'in the name of democracy' :rolleyes: It's disgusting what's going on.

It actually is. I voted yes when we held our referendum because I honestly believed it was a good thing. But today, seeing how the results of the popular vote (with which I disagreed) are just ignored seems disgusting, dangerous and is (imo) a good reason to vote no.

Heineken Helen

Kann wrote:

It actually is. I voted yes when we held our referendum because I honestly believed it was a good thing. But today, seeing how the results of the popular vote (with which I disagreed) are just ignored seems disgusting, dangerous and is (imo) a good reason to vote no.

well I did and now we wait counting starts right about now... so we should know in a few hours. I think the turnout was only about 45% which COULD be good for the no vote... or for either vote realistically