Gulf Of Tonkin\Vietnam & 1st Gulf War - ALL LIES: Why Would This War Be Different?
DriftingByTheStorm
Posts: 8,684
VIETNAM:
GEORGE WASHINTON UNIVERSITY: Tonkin Gulf Intelligence "Skewed"
According to Official History and Intercepts
Excerpt:
Washington, D.C., 1 December 2005 - The largest U.S. intelligence agency, the National Security Agency, today declassified over 140 formerly top secret documents -- histories, chronologies, signals intelligence [SIGINT] reports, and oral history interviews -- on the August 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident. Included in the release is a controversial article by Agency historian Robert J. Hanyok on SIGINT and the Tonkin Gulf which confirms what historians have long argued: that there was no second attack on U.S. ships in Tonkin on August 4, 1964.
GEORGE WASHINTON UNIVERSITY: Flawed Intelligence and the Decision for War in Vietnam
Excerpt: Washington, D.C., 4 August 2004 - Forty years ago today, President Johnson and top U.S. officials chose to believe that North Vietnam had just attacked U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, even though the highly classified signals intercepts they cited to each other actually described a naval clash two days earlier (a battle prompted by covert U.S. attacks on North Vietnam),
OK.
So Vietnam was basicaly "predestined" ... they knew what they wanted, and they just "botched" intelligence to make a case for it ... even though the only recent attack was a retalliation on a covert US attack!
THE PERSIAN GULF WAR:
Christian Science Monitor: In war, some facts less factual - Some US assertions from the last war on Iraq still appear dubious.
Excerpt:
MOSCOW – When George H. W. Bush ordered American forces to the Persian Gulf – to reverse Iraq's August 1990 invasion of Kuwait – part of the administration case was that an Iraqi juggernaut was also threatening to roll into Saudi Arabia.
Citing top-secret satellite images, Pentagon officials estimated in mid–September that up to 250,000 Iraqi troops and 1,500 tanks stood on the border, threatening the key US oil supplier.
But when the St. Petersburg Times in Florida acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border – just empty desert.
"It was a pretty serious fib," says Jean Heller, the Times journalist who broke the story.
...
in the fall of 1990, members of Congress and the American public were swayed by the tearful testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only as Nayirah.
In the girl's testimony before a congressional caucus, well-documented in MacArthur's book "Second Front" and elsewhere, she described how, as a volunteer in a Kuwait maternity ward, she had seen Iraqi troops storm her hospital, steal the incubators, and leave 312 babies "on the cold floor to die."
Seven US Senators later referred to the story during debate; the motion for war passed by just five votes. In the weeks after Nayirah spoke, President Bush senior invoked the incident five times, saying that such "ghastly atrocities" were like "Hitler revisited."
But just weeks before the US bombing campaign began in January, a few press reports began to raise questions about the validity of the incubator tale.
Later, it was learned that Nayirah was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Washington and had no connection to the Kuwait hospital.
She had been coached – along with the handful of others who would "corroborate" the story – by senior executives of Hill and Knowlton in Washington, the biggest global PR firm at the time, which had a contract worth more than $10 million with the Kuwaitis to make the case for war.
...
"This administration is capable of any lie ... in order to advance its war goal in Iraq," says a US government source in Washington with some two decades of experience in intelligence, who would not be further identified. "It is one of the reasons it doesn't want to have UN inspectors go back in, because they might actually show that the probability of Iraq having [threatening illicit weapons] is much lower than they want us to believe."
HISTORY HAS BEEN REPEADTEDLY HIJACKED BY LIES.
For the love of all man's good, PLEASE DON'T BUY IN TO THE LIES NOW!
WAKE UP, AMERICA.
WAKE UP!
GEORGE WASHINTON UNIVERSITY: Tonkin Gulf Intelligence "Skewed"
According to Official History and Intercepts
Excerpt:
Washington, D.C., 1 December 2005 - The largest U.S. intelligence agency, the National Security Agency, today declassified over 140 formerly top secret documents -- histories, chronologies, signals intelligence [SIGINT] reports, and oral history interviews -- on the August 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident. Included in the release is a controversial article by Agency historian Robert J. Hanyok on SIGINT and the Tonkin Gulf which confirms what historians have long argued: that there was no second attack on U.S. ships in Tonkin on August 4, 1964.
GEORGE WASHINTON UNIVERSITY: Flawed Intelligence and the Decision for War in Vietnam
Excerpt: Washington, D.C., 4 August 2004 - Forty years ago today, President Johnson and top U.S. officials chose to believe that North Vietnam had just attacked U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, even though the highly classified signals intercepts they cited to each other actually described a naval clash two days earlier (a battle prompted by covert U.S. attacks on North Vietnam),
OK.
So Vietnam was basicaly "predestined" ... they knew what they wanted, and they just "botched" intelligence to make a case for it ... even though the only recent attack was a retalliation on a covert US attack!
THE PERSIAN GULF WAR:
Christian Science Monitor: In war, some facts less factual - Some US assertions from the last war on Iraq still appear dubious.
Excerpt:
MOSCOW – When George H. W. Bush ordered American forces to the Persian Gulf – to reverse Iraq's August 1990 invasion of Kuwait – part of the administration case was that an Iraqi juggernaut was also threatening to roll into Saudi Arabia.
Citing top-secret satellite images, Pentagon officials estimated in mid–September that up to 250,000 Iraqi troops and 1,500 tanks stood on the border, threatening the key US oil supplier.
But when the St. Petersburg Times in Florida acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border – just empty desert.
"It was a pretty serious fib," says Jean Heller, the Times journalist who broke the story.
...
in the fall of 1990, members of Congress and the American public were swayed by the tearful testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only as Nayirah.
In the girl's testimony before a congressional caucus, well-documented in MacArthur's book "Second Front" and elsewhere, she described how, as a volunteer in a Kuwait maternity ward, she had seen Iraqi troops storm her hospital, steal the incubators, and leave 312 babies "on the cold floor to die."
Seven US Senators later referred to the story during debate; the motion for war passed by just five votes. In the weeks after Nayirah spoke, President Bush senior invoked the incident five times, saying that such "ghastly atrocities" were like "Hitler revisited."
But just weeks before the US bombing campaign began in January, a few press reports began to raise questions about the validity of the incubator tale.
Later, it was learned that Nayirah was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Washington and had no connection to the Kuwait hospital.
She had been coached – along with the handful of others who would "corroborate" the story – by senior executives of Hill and Knowlton in Washington, the biggest global PR firm at the time, which had a contract worth more than $10 million with the Kuwaitis to make the case for war.
...
"This administration is capable of any lie ... in order to advance its war goal in Iraq," says a US government source in Washington with some two decades of experience in intelligence, who would not be further identified. "It is one of the reasons it doesn't want to have UN inspectors go back in, because they might actually show that the probability of Iraq having [threatening illicit weapons] is much lower than they want us to believe."
HISTORY HAS BEEN REPEADTEDLY HIJACKED BY LIES.
For the love of all man's good, PLEASE DON'T BUY IN TO THE LIES NOW!
WAKE UP, AMERICA.
WAKE UP!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
And a good many people on this message board, and a good many people elsewhere, don't buy into them either.
There is hope. We aren't stupid. There is hope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
"Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of simulated or real terrorism and violence on US soil or against US interests, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. As part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative, the plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer."
There's quite a bit of info on this topic on the net.........
waaaay too predictable!
That appears to sound like something this administration would say and would want us to do. The Bay of Tonkin was a hoax that led to the prolonged war in Vietnam.
We've Economic Hit Men who go into third world countries to corupt their governments, offer them loans they'll never be able to pay back.
Then reep what ever natural resource that they may have such as cobalt (used in computers cell phones). I find it unique that we pick on the the weaker countries as we continue our roll of the big bad bully. Nothing about this country's capabilities escapes me as to what they'll do for their agenda and to it's citizens. What's in Iraq, our biggest resource this country NEEDS any ideas?
I'll find the link to the story of our contracted EHM.
Peace
Earle
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I just dont understand. I think our government has many many flaws. bush really pisses me off lately and this country is in dyer need for a change.
but I do not feel america is evil and has been since the beginning....
if I felt that way, I certainly would not live here.
edit: after reading your post. I have no idea how it applies to mine. but whatever
help me understand. your buddy drifin seems to imply that america has been evil for decades and decades. and uses colorful big fonts to prove his point. and believes america was 100% behind the worst attack on our OWN country.
why would you want to live in such a place? I really want to know.
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. I referred to this to show some of the things this government of ours is capable of under a Dem or Repug administration.
It's funny how when one points out right wrong doings of our government, one of the first things that might be said is "if you don't like it then leave". Nonsense, then there wouldn't be any folks willing to think for themselves without the weak media some of us watch and listen to.
Peace gotta go check ya later
Earle
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
yea but this is a little different. I'm glad people call out the government, its our right to do so. but, me personally, if I thought the American government has been a evil institution for say 70 years. I would go. I would go to a place where I respect the government.
earle, I like ya man. you are respectful and somewhat
and if I was 100% convinced that the government PLANNED, orchestrated, and carried out 9/11, I would be so gone. why be a sitting duck?
what does being american mean to you? ... if it's based on what has been done in the name of imperialism - then you might have a point ... but isn't the idea of a democracy that as an individual you will help make the whole that much better?
america is no longer a functioning democracy - it is a large corporation and objective people will realize that not all corporations are gonna act in the interests of morality ... we need to accept what has been done in the past and present in order to ensure it doesn't continue ...
you fix things from the inside ... but you can't fix what you don't know is broke ...
what was it really about?
From the guy with all the right answers! I will save my finger power.
whenever you are ready, i'll be around
That all kinda blows my mind. Whites fighting against whites for ownership of another race. Treating another race like a commodity...whoa.
I think it's always kinda been there, coming and going, but in the last 30 years it seems a concerted effort has been made by the govt to move on groups of people like this again. This is how civil wars start...here we are again full circle with Muslims....whites fighting against whites.
geez...wtf eh?
what's up with the southern mentality? sigh...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
THe american civil war was never about ownership of another race....it was about two groups fighting for control over the U.S. It just got covered over as a race issue to keep most people in the dark, so that it would be easier to get people to take sides. This is well written about in either "shadows of power" or "the creature from jekyll island" can't remember which off hand. But both books should be read by anybody who cares about what has happened in the last 200 years, and what continues to happen.
I write in that fashion only because of my eyesight, it makes it easier for me ot read without straining which in turn puts even more stress on the eyes. I'm a moderator on another music board and it helps to write in that particular manner. However this is your board, being a newbie as I was called by someone so I'll do my best to adjust to the method of the madness here.llol I really do like it here plenty of action and you peeps move fast, keep it up.
Yes, I do have my countries picked out if all hell breaks out here, I'm not going to say at this time but they're far from here. As for not leaving this country it comes down to me not backing down, not content with how this administration operates.
They try to make the American people believe their agenda is righteous and true, they do this very well through media blitze, fearmongering and such. It's worse here in DC. I believe they believe in what their doing is in the BEST interest of people in America and that's total elephant dung. I would rather them say to me we're going into Iraq/Iran for control of this Middle Eastern oil region. Set up our military bases, embassys to have a permanent influence there to benefit our oil constituents. Instead they make up laws, rulings just to implement their ideals in the name of the war on terror. I can't have faith in that, you can call them evil I won't it's just the deceptive nature of it all that gets to me.
If they could and say such things up front I'd respect that just like how I respect how you stand by what you believe is the truth in your mind on 9/II and other matters.
I may differ on most of them but I'll hear ya out.
Peace
Earle
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
cool, keep up the good fight. its your right to do so.
politics sucks in the US. I am for less government in all aspects. I try to live my live the way I want to. so far, they do not bother me much. if I see something I dont like I voice my opinion.
Interesting because there seems to be much debate about that from what I'm reading. It is definitely listed as one of the reasons.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I don't know enough about American history to say...all I recognize is similarities, and patterns throughout history. It all seems to go in cycles all over the world, not just the US. I'd have to spend several hours reading US history to refresh myself of the goings on 100+ years ago.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Though I take this question as an insult, I will answer.
The pragmatic answer would be that getting citizenship in another country as an AMERICAN citizen is VERY hard ...
beyond that,
why the fuck should i have to leave a country that is in theory supposed to be such a great institution, only to watch it be dragged through the mud (or oil) by a bunch of selfish crooks who would step on us, spit on our mothers, and club our babbies to make a buck, and then trample around the world doing the same to every other nation they deem "an easy target" with valuble spoils to plunder !?!
anyhow ...
I feel pretty strongly about the strength and beauty of this country's consitution and founding principals. I am indignant at the numerous disgraces that have been conferred upon it by short-sighted narrow-minded pig-headed politicians, and I'd like to stick around and try for my life to affect some change on that situation. I
"whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. " [declaration of independence]
... are you safe & happy?
I'm not. I bet the people of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan aren't either.
How many countries must one government fuck over in 8 years to qualify for the actions called for in the above passage?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I'll add this link to my previous observation. Iraqi segregation in the military, it would seem to confirm. Seems odd.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/18685.html
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Pure craziness and somewhat surprising.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.