keep burning those flags

darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
edited June 2006 in A Moving Train
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5123730.stm

"The US Senate has failed to approve a constitutional amendment which would ban the burning of the American flag.
The proposal, backed by President George W Bush who said it was an important issue, failed by one vote.

The measure has been seen as an attempt by the Republican majority to attract support of conservative voters ahead of November's mid-term elections.

But many Republicans say the flag is a cherished symbol of freedom and value which needs to be protected.

This is not the first time that the Senate has attempted to rally around the flag in this way since the US Supreme Court ruled that burning the Stars and Stripes is an example of free speech and protected by the US constitution.

On this occasion though, the vote could not have been closer.

Just one more senator on board and a ban on the desecration of the American flag would have been sent to individual states for ratification - a very rare occurrence indeed.

'Unpatriotic'

There have been only four recorded acts of flag burning in the United States this year but this did not stop the Senate from spending two days debating the issue.

A majority of Republicans argued that the Stars and Stripes is a cherished symbol of US freedom and values which needs protection.

But Democratic opponents dismissed the amendment as the latest attempt by Republicans to appeal to their conservative base ahead of November's mid-term elections by painting those who voted against the bill as unpatriotic.

Fourteen Democrats backed the measure in the end, earning the praise of President Bush who said he continued to believe that the American people deserved the opportunity to express their views on this important issue."


well i am going to crack open my boxes of flags and start a good old fashioned BURNIN
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Aw shucks ... we didn't join China, Cuba and Iran on the list of countries that ban flag burning.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • It's really a sad commentary when almost a year later, the Gulf Coast is still a shambled wreck, New Orleans is a lawless modern-day ghost town, Iraq is on the verge of civil war, and Congress is wasting time arguing about outlawing the burning of a piece of colored cloth. It's good to know that the Republican led Congress have their priorities in order.

    Make your life a mission - not an intermission. - Arnold Gasglow
  • audome25audome25 Posts: 163
    brink wrote:
    New Orleans is a lawless modern-day ghost town


    but they got vacations and sex changes out of it.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    nice to see a bunch of senators are wholeheartedly against the Bill of Rights.

    I'm sure they'll be lauding "freedom" and "independance" next week.

    Wankers.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • I'm down with flag burning. Maybe I'll celebrate by torching a flag tonight. I've got a nice little recipe here:

    1 part US flag
    1 part IRS tax code book
    1 part printout of whitehouse.gov
    1 part constitution
    1 part us army recuitment materials
    1 part senator hillary clinton fund raising materials, which i get every fucking week in the mail
    1 part amtrak ticket stub
    3 parts lighter fluid
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,444
    You can excersice your right by burning thr flag. I fail to see a problem.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,673
    you know what they say right?

    "Each time you burn a flag, a soldier in iraq dies dies" :(

    Keep those flags on your cars bumpers so birds can shit on them and the sun can burn it.
  • EdVedHedEdVedHed Posts: 100
    brink wrote:
    It's really a sad commentary when almost a year later, the Gulf Coast is still a shambled wreck, New Orleans is a lawless modern-day ghost town, Iraq is on the verge of civil war, and Congress is wasting time arguing about outlawing the burning of a piece of colored cloth. It's good to know that the Republican led Congress have their priorities in order.

    Amen to that - it's truly absurb that time is even being spent on the topic.
    And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.......Nietzsche
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Nothing screams idiocy like burning one of the very symbols which stands for giving a person the freedom to perform that act without retribution. It's funny how people who want to burn the flag always say that they do it in a fashion that represents their distaste for the government and it's leaders, not the country itself, but then they can't seem to reconcile that with the fact that the other good things they feel that America stands for are also represented by that flag, and that when they burn it, they show disrespect for THOSE things too.

    I understand why Iranians burn the American flag...but I'll never understand why an American, who truly loves their country, would ever burn the flag. Burn a picture of Bush if you have that much to express to the world. Leave the flag alone.

    Of course though, there are some of you on here who just pretty much dislike everything about America anyway...so I'll exclude you from my latter points...because you would burn it regardless.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • hailhailkc wrote:
    Nothing screams idiocy like burning one of the very symbols which stands for giving a person the freedom to perform that act without retribution.

    My body and my mind are the symbols that give me freedom.

    The flag is the symbol of that takes which away.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,073
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Nothing screams idiocy like burning one of the very symbols which stands for giving a person the freedom to perform that act without retribution. It's funny how people who want to burn the flag always say that they do it in a fashion that represents their distaste for the government and it's leaders, not the country itself, but then they can't seem to reconcile that with the fact that the other good things they feel that America stands for are also represented by that flag, and that when they burn it, they show disrespect for THOSE things too.

    I generally agree. However, you did not really give say whether you feel it should be legal.

    I think it should. A lot of things can be deemed offensive to somebody. The KKK has the right to get its message out, as much as it may offend me.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Shea Stadium Posts: 13,850
    goes to burn my american flag.and those stupid letters from the army and marines.
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,915
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Nothing screams idiocy like burning one of the very symbols which stands for giving a person the freedom to perform that act without retribution. It's funny how people who want to burn the flag always say that they do it in a fashion that represents their distaste for the government and it's leaders, not the country itself, but then they can't seem to reconcile that with the fact that the other good things they feel that America stands for are also represented by that flag, and that when they burn it, they show disrespect for THOSE things too.

    I understand why Iranians burn the American flag...but I'll never understand why an American, who truly loves their country, would ever burn the flag. Burn a picture of Bush if you have that much to express to the world. Leave the flag alone.

    Of course though, there are some of you on here who just pretty much dislike everything about America anyway...so I'll exclude you from my latter points...because you would burn it regardless.

    Banning flag burning would be disrespectful to those things. Particularly but the fucking feeble weakknee worms in congress and satan and his executive brance.
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    I generally agree. However, you did not really give say whether you feel it should be legal.

    I think it should. A lot of things can be deemed offensive to somebody. The KKK has the right to get its message out, as much as it may offend me.

    That's fine if it's legal. I don't really have a problem with it being legal. I'll just never participate in it. However, like abortion, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it WAS made illegal.

    I do think lines have to be drawn somewhere though. For instance, I don't think "freedom" entails that a man should be allowed to have cosensual (sp?) sex with a 12 year old boy. And I'm not equating flag burning to that example, I'm just saying...freedom is subjective up until the point of what I would describe as "common sense".
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    hailhailkc wrote:
    That's fine if it's legal. I don't really have a problem with it being legal. I'll just never participate in it. However, like abortion, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it WAS made illegal.
    you should loose sleep over both.....

    being able to burn the American Flag is what the American Flag is all about. Once you make it illegal you take the most important aspect of the flag away. Would I ever burn the flag...hell no...but I do and should have the right to do so....oh oh ...kind of like abortion.

    As to Republicans bringing up gay rights, flag burning and abortion...really smart....it works. Sad but that's the current America.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,444
    callen wrote:
    you should loose sleep over both.....

    being able to burn the American Flag is what the American Flag is all about. Once you make it illegal you take the most important aspect of the flag away. Would I ever burn the flag...hell no...but I do and should have the right to do so....oh oh ...kind of like abortion.

    As to Republicans bringing up gay rights, flag burning and abortion...really smart....it works. Sad but that's the current America.

    Bravo! Awesome post. And nobody is seeing through these tactics?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    fuck america...
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,917
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Nothing screams idiocy like burning one of the very symbols which stands for giving a person the freedom to perform that act without retribution. It's funny how people who want to burn the flag always say that they do it in a fashion that represents their distaste for the government and it's leaders, not the country itself, but then they can't seem to reconcile that with the fact that the other good things they feel that America stands for are also represented by that flag, and that when they burn it, they show disrespect for THOSE things too.

    I understand why Iranians burn the American flag...but I'll never understand why an American, who truly loves their country, would ever burn the flag. Burn a picture of Bush if you have that much to express to the world. Leave the flag alone.

    Of course though, there are some of you on here who just pretty much dislike everything about America anyway...so I'll exclude you from my latter points...because you would burn it regardless.

    I actually agree with this post ... Someone who burns their own country's flag is unpatriotic at best, and a fucking asshole at worst. If someone truly wants their country to be a better place, why would they burn a flag? They should save the money spent on Zippos and put it towards protest or some other form of activity that might actually do something helpful.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,073
    hailhailkc wrote:
    That's fine if it's legal. I don't really have a problem with it being legal. I'll just never participate in it. However, like abortion, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it WAS made illegal.

    I do think lines have to be drawn somewhere though. For instance, I don't think "freedom" entails that a man should be allowed to have cosensual (sp?) sex with a 12 year old boy. And I'm not equating flag burning to that example, I'm just saying...freedom is subjective up until the point of what I would describe as "common sense".


    (I know you are not comparing the two in terms of what is worse...)

    Flag burning is a freedom of speech issue. If you can desecrate an Iranian flag to make a point, then not allowing it for an American flag is taking away freedom of speech.

    The sex issue is not a freedom of speech issue. Sex with a 12 year old, regardless of his/her "consent" is harmful to that child (which is why consent does not exist in such a case). Flag desecration is no more harmful to anyone than steamrolling Dixie Chicks CDs.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    I actually agree with this post ... Someone who burns their own country's flag is unpatriotic at best, and a fucking asshole at worst. If someone truly wants their country to be a better place, why would they burn a flag? They should save the money spent on Zippos and put it towards protest or some other form of activity that might actually do something helpful.

    Well said, I agree.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    (I know you are not comparing the two in terms of what is worse...)

    Flag burning is a freedom of speech issue. If you can desecrate an Iranian flag to make a point, then not allowing it for an American flag is taking away freedom of speech.

    The sex issue is not a freedom of speech issue. Sex with a 12 year old, regardless of his/her "consent" is harmful to that child (which is why consent does not exist in such a case). Flag desecration is no more harmful to anyone than steamrolling Dixie Chicks CDs.

    All good points, and well said.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
    ~ Voltaire


    to me, that is THE whole point, and why flag burning should always remain legal. it is a symbol and symbols are potent, powerful tools...so one who is a member of a free society should always have the right to take such a symbol and destroy it symbolically.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 536
    i love the video of that guy over in iran spraying lighter fluid on the american flag, lighting the flag on fire, then the fire spreads to the lighter fluid he spilled on his arm. good stuff.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    I actually agree with this post ... Someone who burns their own country's flag is unpatriotic at best, and a fucking asshole at worst. If someone truly wants their country to be a better place, why would they burn a flag? They should save the money spent on Zippos and put it towards protest or some other form of activity that might actually do something helpful.


    "You can't love your country, and hate your government" -Bill Clinton. Might of been a satire. Still...

    The idea of flag burning is to show discontent with the government, not the country. So you could say they are being more patriotic than those who aren't burning the flags, because they are acting on behalf of their country, are actually motivated enough and care enough about something to get off their asses and do something.
    There's plenty for all.

    You can either repeat conventional platitudes or else sound like you're from Neptune. -chomsky


    The weight of the world don't seem so bad...


    I love you Cate. always will.
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 536
    since when does the flag represent the gov't? i see a flag of any nationality, i think of the country, not the gov't. i can't stand seeing flags burned. not just american, but any flag. it just screams disrespect. in my opinion.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    moeaholic wrote:
    since when does the flag represent the gov't? i see a flag of any nationality, i think of the country, not the gov't. i can't stand seeing flags burned. not just american, but any flag. it just screams disrespect. in my opinion.



    i think it shows discontent with the authority of the nation, to burn their symbol.
    There's plenty for all.

    You can either repeat conventional platitudes or else sound like you're from Neptune. -chomsky


    The weight of the world don't seem so bad...


    I love you Cate. always will.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,452
    moeaholic wrote:
    since when does the flag represent the gov't? i see a flag of any nationality, i think of the country, not the gov't. i can't stand seeing flags burned. not just american, but any flag. it just screams disrespect. in my opinion.

    Yea thats very true, its very disrespectful. But remember its ok to be disrespectful to anything conservative in america.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 536
    Commy wrote:
    i think it shows discontent with the authority of the nation, to burn their symbol.

    ok, i can see that. but as it was said earlier in this thread, i think that message would come across better if you burned a picture of the president.

    again, just my opinion.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 536
    miller8966 wrote:
    Yea thats very true, its very disrespectful. But remember its ok to be disrespectful to anything conservative in america.

    but i meant flags of every country. as much as i would hate a certain place, it wouldn't do anything for me to burn their flag. a countries flag, to me, represents the people (the backbone) of that country. why would i want to spit in the face of the people of said country? i know how i feel when i see people burning american flags, or altering the look of the flag, i wouldn't want average joe of another country to feel that way.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,684
    moeaholic wrote:
    i love the video of that guy over in iran spraying lighter fluid on the american flag, lighting the flag on fire, then the fire spreads to the lighter fluid he spilled on his arm. good stuff.
    I'm gonna go burn a flag....which is far more human than your post.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.