Lebanon: A mess made by the West??

darkcrow

Politicians everywhere are crying and screaming that the demcratically elected government might be toppled by Hezbollah. But I wonder if the West did not support Israel in its bombings then maybe the government, which was hugely populer before the conflict, would still be in a secure position.

Of course there are arguments allover the show. Israel had a right to defend itself, the attacks were disproportionate etc etc.

Maybe we cannot discuss this without discussing the war/conflict etc. It just seems rather farcical. The Americans and the British and others refused to tell Israel to stop fighting and indeed provided them with hundreds of cluster bombs which are killing children to this day, yet their inaction has caused the destablisation.

miller8966

darkcrow wrote:

Politicians everywhere are crying and screaming that the demcratically elected government might be toppled by Hezbollah. But I wonder if the West did not support Israel in its bombings then maybe the government, which was hugely populer before the conflict, would still be in a secure position.

Of course there are arguments allover the show. Israel had a right to defend itself, the attacks were disproportionate etc etc.

Maybe we cannot discuss this without discussing the war/conflict etc. It just seems rather farcical. The Americans and the British and others refused to tell Israel to stop fighting and indeed provided them with hundreds of cluster bombs which are killing children to this day, yet their inaction has caused the destablisation.

Hizbollah shouldnt have kidnapped Israeli soldiers...

darkcrow

miller8966 wrote:

Hizbollah shouldnt have kidnapped Israeli soldiers...

so that means israel can pretty much carpet bomb the country, cripple it, destroy a factory leading to a huge oil spillage across the coast, and then leave with no reparations??... someone pushed me the other day, can i kill them as recomense? some bastard stole my bike a few years back, if i caught them does that mean i could kill them and their family? there is something call proportionality... anyway that isnt the argument...

Scratchin a Letter

miller8966 wrote:

Hizbollah shouldnt have kidnapped Israeli soldiers...

No, they shouldn't have. It was a provocative stir, one which they knew would accomplish nothing. However, it was not a legitimate or constructive excuse to tear Lebanon to shreds, force out its inhabitants and cause grave damage to those left behind. Sure, you can blame it all on Hezbollah, but the fact that the IDF bought about that response demonstrated to the international community that they have no high ground.

No excuse; no merit; no resolve; just damage and hurt. Hezbollah are not to blame for that.

Scratchin a Letter

And to answer your question darkcrow, I wouldn't say it was a mess MADE by the west. But certainly contributed to by ~. Alarmingly, the Bush-Blair alliance seem to have forgotten about it...

dayan

I would just point out that Lebanon was not "ripped to shreds." I'd recommend looking at the newly released Israeli report on the war which relies heavily on photographic and video evidence, as well as the testimony of captured Hezbollah fighters. The report is informative, especially in that it highlights the extreme precision of the majority of Israel's airstrikes. Say what you will, the IDF didn't "carpet bomb" Lebanon.

rebornFixer

The government of Lebanon set the stage for its own downfall by allowing Hezbollah to basically control more than half the country ... Yes, the West could have done more to support non-radical Lebanese, before and during the war. But the West isn't the sole cause of the current problem. In fact, Israel's inability to dismantle Hezbollah was a bad outcome for Lebanon's government. Blame Israel? Again, I don't think so, because completely dismantling Hezbollah probably wasn't possible under the circumstances.

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

Hizbollah shouldnt have kidnapped Israeli soldiers...

and someone can then say 'the idf shouldn't have kidnapped civillians like they did a few days before the soldier was kidnapped <which actuall was a response to the kidnapping of 2 civillians>....

NCfan

darkcrow wrote:

Politicians everywhere are crying and screaming that the demcratically elected government might be toppled by Hezbollah. But I wonder if the West did not support Israel in its bombings then maybe the government, which was hugely populer before the conflict, would still be in a secure position.

Of course there are arguments allover the show. Israel had a right to defend itself, the attacks were disproportionate etc etc.

Maybe we cannot discuss this without discussing the war/conflict etc. It just seems rather farcical. The Americans and the British and others refused to tell Israel to stop fighting and indeed provided them with hundreds of cluster bombs which are killing children to this day, yet their inaction has caused the destablisation.

What's sad is that in the year 2006, a group like Hizbollah is so strong and powerful that it is attempting to take hold of an entire country. The civilized world surely realizes that civil liberties for all are one of the most precious ideals mankind has ever developed, yet we still support Hizbollah.

This shit will continue to happen until the civilized world acts with one voice to denounce governments and organizations who strip people of their liberty and force religion upon them.....

Where are you Europe? Where are you Russia? Where are you China?

NCfan

darkcrow wrote:

Politicians everywhere are crying and screaming that the demcratically elected government might be toppled by Hezbollah. But I wonder if the West did not support Israel in its bombings then maybe the government, which was hugely populer before the conflict, would still be in a secure position.

Of course there are arguments allover the show. Israel had a right to defend itself, the attacks were disproportionate etc etc.

Maybe we cannot discuss this without discussing the war/conflict etc. It just seems rather farcical. The Americans and the British and others refused to tell Israel to stop fighting and indeed provided them with hundreds of cluster bombs which are killing children to this day, yet their inaction has caused the destablisation.

The recent war between Israel and Hizbollah isn't the reason that Hizbollah has grown strong. To me, the reason was the worlds reaction to the war is what has made them powerful. Pretty much everybody in the world denounced Hizbollah, then they turned around and granted them victim status when Israel wouldn't call the dogs off.

Then, in the aftermath, Hizbollah steps in and offers straight cash to all the "victims" of the Israeli army. Where was the rest of the world? We basically let Hizbollah take advantage of the situation. Basically, when Americans fill up their gas tanks, money is sent to Iran - which is then funneled to Hizbollah, which is then given to Lebonese to buy their support.....

El_Kabong

NCfan wrote:

Basically, when Americans fill up their gas tanks, money is sent to Iran - which is then funneled to Hizbollah, which is then given to Lebonese to buy their support.....

at least it's not as obvious as us selling thousands of missiles to iran through israel in the 80's

macgyver06

Scratchin a Letter wrote:

And to answer your question darkcrow, I wouldn't say it was a mess MADE by the west. But certainly contributed to by ~. Alarmingly, the Bush-Blair alliance seem to have forgotten about it...

this is the one think the U.S. gov't made the right decision on is staying out of it. Also, Bush said that Israel has a right to protect itself, as the citizens of Lebanon. No soldiers were sent there.

If you side with Israels obvious terrorist acts against Lebanons citizens, than you are blatant liars and everyone in the world will see you destroyiung a developing country you laid some bricks for.

If you side with Lebanon, your siding with possible funded terrorists with ties throughout the middle-east along with the VERY VERY majority good citizens of Lebanon (left unprotected by the dissapearance of syria).

also we are talking about Israel, a country that can't seem to do wrong nowadays

macgyver06

El_Kabong wrote:

at least it's not as obvious as us selling thousands of missiles to iran through israel in the 80's

don't forget to Iraq also, and Money to kuwait to Pay Iraq to fight Iran.