I've read his page. I'm still not impressed and still don't understand the draw.
I wanted Kucinich, I've voted for Nader twice - I am aware that I am very much in the minority. Obama is not my guy and I think a lot of people are settling for him or banking on his potential to move people with his influential speeches.
With his speeches, I think people are hearing what they want to hear. If it does move people to action, I can only hope our country starts living greener and more peacefully and requires our policy makers to act accordingly. But, I wouldn't bet on that happening.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
You know, you'll probably get a kick out of this, but i want to somewhat put my foot in my mouth with regards to Obama.
In fact, having read the above it is now 100% obvious to me why "the system" is so bloody desperate to get Hillary elected.
On what do i base the "desperate" claim? Well, when you have every hack neo-con in the book (Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and others) advocating Hillary over McCain, it seems pretty clear that "the establishment" is trying to push as many voters towards Hillary as possible to cover the gap that Obama has run away with in the Democratic party himself (in other words, they need Repubs to vote Hillary or they are fucked).
SO WHY AM I SAYING THIS?
Well, i want to first disclaim that i have serious (massive red flag) issues with his Healthcare and Education goals, but OTHER THAN THAT, his plan DOES read like an honest man's intentions.
Some of what he says is so clear & specific, that unless he is just truly full of shit (possible, but i think he believes what he says, just that he is naive on some issues) there is no way to misinterpret what he is saying. AND THAT SHIT HAS TO PISS THE ELITE OFF LIKE NO ONES BUSINESS! I mean, it is a few steps shy of Ron Paul, but ...
1. He mentions drasticaly reforming NAFTA, saying it was "oversold" to the US public, and that it isn't really good for the American worker. Very much true, and very much NOT what the establishment wants to hear.
2. He wants MASSIVE legislative reform that impededs on the ability of industry and the government to fuck over the people with lies and deception. The predatory credit card stuff. The subprime mortgage stuff. The porkbarel stuff. The Pay-Go budget stuff. There are a good few more (i think) but most of those ARE decent (hell, they are good) ideas. Maybe i don't agree that the government should be involved in them at all. But given the choice of things i'd not mind seeing the government fuck around with, those are good ones!
Anyhow.
I just wanted to throw that out there.
If anyone is like me, sitting there saying, "Yeah but this guy reads just like the rest of em." ... i'm here to say, having read he point-by-points on the issues ... assuming he means what he says, SOME of that stuff is so in the face of big business and the political machine that it does make me smile a bit.
THAT BEING SAID,
i just want to caution Obama supporters that the two things i mentioned before, his plan for Education and Healthcare SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME!
Like i said, i am really starting to believe that Obama is trying hard to be an honest man, and that he IS a man of "integrity" ... HOWEVER ...
I have very strong reservations about subsidized health care. To anyone who says other countries have it, and it is proven to work. No its not proven. Subidization IS proven to subvert the way markets work, and it has lots of negative implications, but the bottom line is YOU DONT SEE THOSE IMPLICATIONS because the UNPAID COSTS (in other words, you cant guarantee cheap healthcare coverage to someone who just flat out doesn't qualify for cheap health care coverage without passing the buck somewhere) end up coming out of the value of YOUR DOLLAR through inflation. That cost is hidden over time, and in budget deficits and the national debt. It is a cost that someday will cause the whole system to come crashing own. So don't give me this line that "Yeah Europe has it and they aren't broke." Okay. Give em 50 years.
Now.
EDUCATION.
This scares me WAY WORSE than healthcare.
Why?
Because all the shit i'm starting to discover about our education system, and all of what i just read about Obamas plan (again, i assume it is a well intentioned plan) ... but basicaly he wants to FUND THE EVILDOERS.
Yeah. He wants to throw massive amounts of money at a system that is designed to do little more than brainwash your children and turn them in to life-long workers with no critical thinking ability. Only the monkey-like mentality needed to do this or that all day long. And he wants to mandate indoctrination (ability\skill tests) of ALL teachers before they can teach. Look. I don't have space to go in to it all, but the system is BROKEN and heavily infiltrated by elitist assfuckers who want little more than to feed your child lies and dumb them down.
Unless Obama understands that and has some plan around it, this education plan will just massively accelerate their plans to wipe the "american intellect" off the face of the planet.
Case in point, his solution to No-Child-Left-Behind?
FUND IT.
??!!??
THE PROGRAM SUCKS!
Its bad policy!
It doesn't need funding.
In needs to be abolished!
So anyway.
Take it for what its worth.
(i know. i'm a kook. right?)
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You know, you'll probably get a kick out of this, but i want to somewhat put my foot in my mouth with regards to Obama.
In fact, having read the above it is now 100% obvious to me why "the system" is so bloody desperate to get Hillary elected.
On what do i base the "desperate" claim? Well, when you have every hack neo-con in the book (Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and others) advocating Hillary over McCain, it seems pretty clear that "the establishment" is trying to push as many voters towards Hillary as possible to cover the gap that Obama has run away with in the Democratic party himself (in other words, they need Repubs to vote Hillary or they are fucked).
SO WHY AM I SAYING THIS?
Well, i want to first disclaim that i have serious (massive red flag) issues with his Healthcare and Education goals, but OTHER THAN THAT, his plan DOES read like an honest man's intentions.
Some of what he says is so clear & specific, that unless he is just truly full of shit (possible, but i think he believes what he says, just that he is naive on some issues) there is no way to misinterpret what he is saying. AND THAT SHIT HAS TO PISS THE ELITE OFF LIKE NO ONES BUSINESS! I mean, it is a few steps shy of Ron Paul, but ...
1. He mentions drasticaly reforming NAFTA, saying it was "oversold" to the US public, and that it isn't really good for the American worker. Very much true, and very much NOT what the establishment wants to hear.
2. He wants MASSIVE legislative reform that impededs on the ability of industry and the government to fuck over the people with lies and deception. The predatory credit card stuff. The subprime mortgage stuff. The porkbarel stuff. The Pay-Go budget stuff. There are a good few more (i think) but most of those ARE decent (hell, they are good) ideas. Maybe i don't agree that the government should be involved in them at all. But given the choice of things i'd not mind seeing the government fuck around with, those are good ones!
Anyhow.
I just wanted to throw that out there.
If anyone is like me, sitting there saying, "Yeah but this guy reads just like the rest of em." ... i'm here to say, having read he point-by-points on the issues ... assuming he means what he says, SOME of that stuff is so in the face of big business and the political machine that it does make me smile a bit.
THAT BEING SAID,
i just want to caution Obama supporters that the two things i mentioned before, his plan for Education and Healthcare SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME!
Like i said, i am really starting to believe that Obama is trying hard to be an honest man, and that he IS a man of "integrity" ... HOWEVER ...
I have very strong reservations about subsidized health care. To anyone who says other countries have it, and it is proven to work. No its not proven. Subidization IS proven to subvert the way markets work, and it has lots of negative implications, but the bottom line is YOU DONT SEE THOSE IMPLICATIONS because the UNPAID COSTS (in other words, you cant guarantee cheap healthcare coverage to someone who just flat out doesn't qualify for cheap health care coverage without passing the buck somewhere) end up coming out of the value of YOUR DOLLAR through inflation. That cost is hidden over time, and in budget deficits and the national debt. It is a cost that someday will cause the whole system to come crashing own. So don't give me this line that "Yeah Europe has it and they aren't broke." Okay. Give em 50 years.
Now.
EDUCATION.
This scares me WAY WORSE than healthcare.
Why?
Because all the shit i'm starting to discover about our education system, and all of what i just read about Obamas plan (again, i assume it is a well intentioned plan) ... but basicaly he wants to FUND THE EVILDOERS.
Yeah. He wants to throw massive amounts of money at a system that is designed to do little more than brainwash your children and turn them in to life-long workers with no critical thinking ability. Only the monkey-like mentality needed to do this or that all day long. And he wants to mandate indoctrination (ability\skill tests) of ALL teachers before they can teach. Look. I don't have space to go in to it all, but the system is BROKEN and heavily infiltrated by elitist assfuckers who want little more than to feed your child lies and dumb them down.
Unless Obama understands that and has some plan around it, this education plan will just massively accelerate their plans to wipe the "american intellect" off the face of the planet.
Case in point, his solution to No-Child-Left-Behind?
FUND IT.
??!!??
THE PROGRAM SUCKS!
Its bad policy!
It doesn't need funding.
In needs to be abolished!
So anyway.
Take it for what its worth.
(i know. i'm a kook. right?)
how does him saying that he wants to reform it mean that supports it as is and just wants to throw more money at it?
though i do agree that he should scrap the NCLB name and call his education reform plan something entirely different
Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
On the other hand, I guess that would make him like every other politician ... only better at it.
he's a very good one. he knows what politicians (and religious leaders) throughout history know all too well, and what science has recently proven: that human beings are hard-wired for optimism. so you just gotta know how to tingle that little optimism nerve, and you've got them hooked.
how does him saying that he wants to reform it mean that supports it as is and just wants to throw more money at it?
though i do agree that he should scrap the NCLB name and call his education reform plan something entirely different
Because everyone of his plans for the current system does nothing more than throw more money at it.
"reforming the accountability process" is not going to help. The accountability process is THE PROBLEM. Reforming it ignores that it is the problem. Children and teachers don't need to jump through hoops! That is what you "teach" a kid if all you care about is ensuring he will make a good little monkey.
What kids need is FUNDAMENTALS.
Our school system has completely thrown those out.
Also, everywhere in that plan he calls for creating a new program ... that is INCREASING THE PROBLEM.
Child care program.
Afterschool program.
Summerschool program.
EARLY EDUCATION ! ! !
That reads to me as
indoctrinate & brainwash them when they aren't in school.
Indoctrinate and brainwash them after school.
Indoctrinate & brainwash them in the summertime.
and indoctrinate & brainwash them BEFORE they even get to school in the first 5 most formative years of their life!
THAT IS FUCKED UP!
WE DON'T NEED IT!
We need LESS LESS LESS LESS LESS Government in school. Not MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.
I understand that everyone wants kids to get a good education, but people need to wake up and realize that the people that are the problem are controling the school system. They are the ones writing the books, training the teachers, and setting the standards. How come the cost of education keeps going up up and up, and the education level goes down down and down.
ITS NOT THE KIDS.
ITS NOT THE TEACHERS.
ITS THE SYSTEM!
It is deliberately RIGGED to make them dumb.
And the teachers are DELIBERATELY being mis-taught on how to educate!
The department of MISeducation needs to 100% SCRAPED.
And all educational initiatives MUST go back to the states. Idealy they should go 100% away from government, PERIOD, but we STILL have the problem that the assholes who want to rape your childs minds are the ones publishing the books, training the teachers, putting out all this bad information online, setting up foundations to miseducate the educators, etc.
But we CERTAINLY don't need more money for them right now! And DEFINATELY don't need to add to their already deliberately malicious policies (ie. No Child Left Behind).
Do yourself a favor, ANYTIME you hear a program being named by the government, just flip it.
No Child Left Behind?
EVERY Child Left Behind.
Department of Education?
Department of Stupification.
Because everyone of his plans for the current system does nothing more than throw more money at it.
"reforming the accountability process" is not going to help. The accountability process is THE PROBLEM. Reforming it ignores that it is the problem. Children and teachers don't need to jump through hoops! That is what you "teach" a kid if all you care about is ensuring he will make a good little monkey.
What kids need is FUNDAMENTALS.
Our school system has completely thrown those out.
Also, everywhere in that plan he calls for creating a new program ... that is INCREASING THE PROBLEM.
Child care program.
Afterschool program.
Summerschool program.
EARLY EDUCATION ! ! !
That reads to me as
indoctrinate & brainwash them when they aren't in school.
Indoctrinate and brainwash them after school.
Indoctrinate & brainwash them in the summertime.
and indoctrinate & brainwash them BEFORE they even get to school in the first 5 most formative years of their life!
THAT IS FUCKED UP!
WE DON'T NEED IT!
We need LESS LESS LESS LESS LESS Government in school. Not MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.
I understand that everyone wants kids to get a good education, but people need to wake up and realize that the people that are the problem are controling the school system. They are the ones writing the books, training the teachers, and setting the standards. How come the cost of education keeps going up up and up, and the education level goes down down and down.
ITS NOT THE KIDS.
ITS NOT THE TEACHERS.
ITS THE SYSTEM!
It is deliberately RIGGED to make them dumb.
And the teachers are DELIBERATELY being mis-taught on how to educate!
The department of MISeducation needs to 100% SCRAPED.
And all educational initiatives MUST go back to the states. Idealy they should go 100% away from government, PERIOD, but we STILL have the problem that the assholes who want to rape your childs minds are the ones publishing the books, training the teachers, putting out all this bad information online, setting up foundations to miseducate the educators, etc.
But we CERTAINLY don't need more money for them right now! And DEFINATELY don't need to add to their already deliberately malicious policies (ie. No Child Left Behind).
Do yourself a favor, ANYTIME you hear a program being named by the government, just flip it.
No Child Left Behind?
EVERY Child Left Behind.
Department of Education?
Department of Stupification.
Because everyone of his plans for the current system does nothing more than throw more money at it.
"reforming the accountability process" is not going to help. The accountability process is THE PROBLEM. Reforming it ignores that it is the problem. Children and teachers don't need to jump through hoops! That is what you "teach" a kid if all you care about is ensuring he will make a good little monkey.
What kids need is FUNDAMENTALS.
Our school system has completely thrown those out.
Also, everywhere in that plan he calls for creating a new program ... that is INCREASING THE PROBLEM.
Child care program.
Afterschool program.
Summerschool program.
EARLY EDUCATION ! ! !
That reads to me as
indoctrinate & brainwash them when they aren't in school.
Indoctrinate and brainwash them after school.
Indoctrinate & brainwash them in the summertime.
and indoctrinate & brainwash them BEFORE they even get to school in the first 5 most formative years of their life!
THAT IS FUCKED UP!
WE DON'T NEED IT!
We need LESS LESS LESS LESS LESS Government in school. Not MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.
I understand that everyone wants kids to get a good education, but people need to wake up and realize that the people that are the problem are controling the school system. They are the ones writing the books, training the teachers, and setting the standards. How come the cost of education keeps going up up and up, and the education level goes down down and down.
ITS NOT THE KIDS.
ITS NOT THE TEACHERS.
ITS THE SYSTEM!
It is deliberately RIGGED to make them dumb.
And the teachers are DELIBERATELY being mis-taught on how to educate!
The department of MISeducation needs to 100% SCRAPED.
And all educational initiatives MUST go back to the states. Idealy they should go 100% away from government, PERIOD, but we STILL have the problem that the assholes who want to rape your childs minds are the ones publishing the books, training the teachers, putting out all this bad information online, setting up foundations to miseducate the educators, etc.
But we CERTAINLY don't need more money for them right now! And DEFINATELY don't need to add to their already deliberately malicious policies (ie. No Child Left Behind).
Do yourself a favor, ANYTIME you hear a program being named by the government, just flip it.
No Child Left Behind?
EVERY Child Left Behind.
Department of Education?
Department of Stupification.
look, there's a lot of problems with the public school system. just one of the main problems with the current NCLB standardized tests is that they only teach english and math(as you call them the FUNDAMENTALS) and the way that it's set up kids are only taught to take the test. that's what is turning them into good little worker monkeys.
there's always been some type of assessment testing in school (even way back in the stone age when i was in school) how else can it be decided who gets into college or who gets the job?
but i guess you overlooked this part:
He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner.
so is it still your solution to totally scrap public education making it so that if parents want their child to educated they must pay for a private school education? what of those kids with parents that can't afford a private school education? shall the US bring back child labor??
how does him saying that he wants to reform it mean that supports it as is and just wants to throw more money at it?
though i do agree that he should scrap the NCLB name and call his education reform plan something entirely different
Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
Actually, speaking as an educator, the name is about the ONE good thing about the program. You're right thouhgh. Obama recognizes that it is a horribly flawed, horribly implemented program with an admirable mission statement. He aims to completely retool and reform it, and part of that is through educational funding.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Child care program.
Afterschool program.
Summerschool program.
EARLY EDUCATION ! ! !
That reads to me as
indoctrinate & brainwash them when they aren't in school.
Indoctrinate and brainwash them after school.
Indoctrinate & brainwash them in the summertime.
and indoctrinate & brainwash them BEFORE they even get to school in the first 5 most formative years of their life!
In all due respect, you really have absolutely no understanding of the issues surrounding education. A huge part of the problem is that kids are showing up for kindergarten already way behind. They are showing up completely unprepared to begin kindergarten. Early childhood education is essential to addressing the educational issues we face. Another problem is the facts that kids go home for the summer and lose much of what they learned during the school year. Kids leave school in the afternoon and go to an empty home. These are serious socio-cultural issues that have a huge impact on a child's academic success. Brainwashing?! Sorry, but this sounds like nothing more than one of your crazy conspiracy theories. Look, you obviously are one of those education is brainwashing guys and i won't try to influence you otherwise. i am interested though. How would YOU fix our educational issues. What would YOU see done?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Actually, speaking as an educator, the name is about the ONE good thing about the program. You're right thouhgh. Obama recognizes that it is a horribly flawed, horribly implemented program with an admirable mission statement. He aims to completely retool and reform it, and part of that is through educational funding.
Well his understanding of the flaws and implementation is going to have to run extremely deep if he plans on fixing it.
Look. I maintain it is a problem that can not be fixed. As long as your own money is being used against your best wishes by the government (or more appropriately, by the people abusing the government system) to reprogram your child how it sees fit, there is going to be a problem.
The problem is you have no choice.
Your child is YOURS. It should be your god given right to educate them as YOU see fit, not your government.
The only way around this is to 100% subvert government intervention by forcing them to allow substantial tax credits for individuals with children, and for individuals and businesses that would like to donate to scholarship grants for children of parents who are too poor to get a tax credit. I was for vouchers until i read this. Not the biggest CATO institute fan, but within the framework of "the system" they are okay, i guess.
Now, along with the tax credits to attend private school, you are going to need to keep the government from exerting ANY regulatory influence on private schools.
The school choice on how to educate MUST remain in the hand soley of the parents who FUND them, NOT a bureaucratic process totaly rampant with corruption and abuse.
Of course this will piss off parents of children already in private (especialy catholic) schools, because the initial wave of children under this system will come pouring in to these existing private schools before the infrastructure of private schools expands to meet the new demand.
And i'm sure someone is going to argue that it can't be afforded either. But i hardly buy that assumption, given that the cost of educating a child on the FREE market is, dollar for value recieved INFINITELY greater than that value per dollar that is achieved by public schooling!
Obama already admits he plans to dump countless amounts of money in to fix a problem that can't be fixed.
We need to be thinking about how to get kids OUT of that system ... with the eventual end goal of total elimination of the department of education, and a "re-privatization" initiative where public schools are gradualy auctioned off to the private schools or repurposed entirely.
I'm sorry.
I want to believe that the department of education can be fixed, but it is systemic and it STEMS from ONE root cause: your dollar is being spent by someone other than you on that education. PROBLEM. PERIOD.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
These are serious socio-cultural issues that have a huge impact on a child's academic success.
I am not digging any deeper in to your reply than to comment on the above and say, with all due respect, that the very insightful commentary above regarding the massive "socio-cultural" issue which you have identified is by-and-large an end result of the system you are trying to save.
I could get all crazy "conspiracist" about it, but i think as an educator you should just be able to think about it for a minute and realize it is true. Children have, since the end of the 50s, grown up programmed by class rooms that have removed the focus from nurture, creative expression, rigorous route study which develops character and personal responsibility, and moral truth (real right from wrong) and replaced ALL of it with a moraly repugnant behavioral approach that only rewards kids for being right, and punishes them for being wrong and conditions them to be little more than cogs in a machine. It imparts skills for JOB success, not LIFE success, and THAT is where humanity is failing miserably.
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I am not digging any deeper in to your reply than to comment on the above and say, with all due respect, that the very insightful commentary above regarding the massive "socio-cultural" issue which you have identified is by-and-large an end result of the system you are trying to save.
I could get all crazy "conspiracist" about it, but i think as an educator you should just be able to think about it for a minute and realize it is true. Children have, since the end of the 50s, grown up programmed by class rooms that have removed the focus from nurture, creative expression, rigorous route study which develops character and personal responsibility, and moral truth (real right from wrong) and replaced ALL of it with a moraly repugnant behavioral approach that only rewards kids for being right, and punishes them for being wrong and conditions them to be little more than cogs in a machine. It imparts skills for JOB success, not LIFE success, and THAT is where humanity is failing miserably.
:(
Speaking as someone who actually knows what goes on in the classroom, who not only sees it, but practices it, i have to say you are mistaken. Does some of this happen? Of course it does. Are there teachers in our system who skate by? Yes. Just like in any profession. That is the problem with current NCLB legislation as implemented by the current administration. It emphasizes standardized test scores and handcuffs educators into teaching to these tests. They have no choice for they risk being fired if students don't perform well on these tests. The implementation of NCLB is terribly flawed. The fact that the vast majority of educators despise NCLB is witness to your mistake in judgement of educators and their goals. Is it the goal of the education system to indoctrinate and brainwash childern? That is simply not the case. Is it the goal of the Obama plan, which is really at the heart of this discussion? No. By focusing on early childhood education, he would address a major obstacle to a child's academic success. It is also true that he seeks to completely reform NCLB legislation, which actually has a respectable mission statement, so that it actually addresses the situation as it should be adressed. No more teaching to a test. No more punishing schools that don't perform well, but rather supporting them so that they will perform better. Furthermore, he adamantly endorses parental responsibility. Also, he champions art, music, literature etc. You exaggerate the problem, and wrongly assess senator Obama's plan to address it.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Speaking as someone who actually knows what goes on in the classroom, who not only sees it, but practices it, i have to say you are mistaken. Does some of this happen? Of course it does. Are there teachers in our system who skate by? Yes. Just like in any profession. That is the problem with current NCLB legislation as implemented by the current administration. It emphasizes standardized test scores and handcuffs educators into teaching to these tests. They have no choice for they risk being fired if students don't perform well on these tests. The implementation of NCLB is terribly flawed. The fact that the vast majority of educators despise NCLB is witness to your mistake in judgement of educators and their goals. Is it the goal of the education system to indoctrinate and brainwash childern? That is simply not the case. Is it the goal of the Obama plan, which is really at the heart of this discussion? No. By focusing on early childhood education, he would address a major obstacle to a child's academic success. It is also true that he seeks to completely reform NCLB legislation, which actually has a respectable mission statement, so that it actually addresses the situation as it should be adressed. No more teaching to a test. No more punishing schools that don't perform well, but rather supporting them so that they will perform better. Furthermore, he adamantly endorses parental responsibility. Also, he champions art, music, literature etc. You exaggerate the problem, and wrongly assess senator Obama's plan to address it.
Here is what i don't get.
Your ONLY praise for NCLB is it "has a respectable mission statement".
That alone should tell you something.
Look at the Federal Reserve.
What is it's mission statement?
It is VERY admirable.
Keep prices stable, and inflation low.
Moderate business cycles.
What does it ACTUALY do?
The EXACT OPPOSITE.
It is RESPONSIBLE for the business cycle,
inflation is running RAMPANT, and prices are up up and up.
So when somehting is created with a commendable mission statement but utterly fails to deliver, does it just need some "tweaks" or is it SEMANTIC DECEPTION?
Secondly,
My criticism is NOT of the TEACHERS ... they themselves have been subject to a system that is trying to wrongly guide them. That they still recognize the problems with NCLB is great, but it doesn't mean those responsible for the NCLB policy were not deliberate in their intentions.
Now,
you DO recognize that the problem with NCLB is "teaching to the test", and as far as i understand, that IS what NCLB is ... it is pretty much nothing OTHER than that ... a set of standardized tests that MUST be "taught to" ...
How in fucks name is switching from punishment to positive reinforcement for teaching to the test fixing the problem? It simply gives teacher FURTHER incentive to teach to the test, right?
Where in this am i off the mark?
And again,
i am begining to be much of the opinion that Obama is a man of character (at least how he perceives himself) and is indeed well intentioned (which i think is the reason i think the establishment is still desperately trying to get hillary in office instead!) ... HOWEVER ... i think that he is going to fail (since he does not control the textbooks or the the coursework for educators themselves) with education ... and these programs are going to fail the children, just like NCLB currently fails, because even though HIS intent is well meaning, THOSE who will ultimately manipulate and set the framework for these new programs will make them in the same vein as NCLB.
Thats just how i see it though.
Obviously.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Here is what i don't get.
Your ONLY praise for NCLB is it "has a respectable mission statement".
That alone should tell you something.
Look at the Federal Reserve.
What is it's mission statement?
It is VERY admirable.
Keep prices stable, and inflation low.
Moderate business cycles.
What does it ACTUALY do?
The EXACT OPPOSITE.
It is RESPONSIBLE for the business cycle,
inflation is running RAMPANT, and prices are up up and up.
So when somehting is created with a commendable mission statement but utterly fails to deliver, does it just need some "tweaks" or is it SEMANTIC DECEPTION?
Secondly,
My criticism is NOT of the TEACHERS ... they themselves have been subject to a system that is trying to wrongly guide them. That they still recognize the problems with NCLB is great, but it doesn't mean those responsible for the NCLB policy were not deliberate in their intentions.
Now,
you DO recognize that the problem with NCLB is "teaching to the test", and as far as i understand, that IS what NCLB is ... it is pretty much nothing OTHER than that ... a set of standardized tests that MUST be "taught to" ...
How in fucks name is switching from punishment to positive reinforcement for teaching to the test fixing the problem? It simply gives teacher FURTHER incentive to teach to the test, right?
Where in this am i off the mark?
And again,
i am begining to be much of the opinion that Obama is a man of character (at least how he perceives himself) and is indeed well intentioned (which i think is the reason i think the establishment is still desperately trying to get hillary in office instead!) ... HOWEVER ... i think that he is going to fail (since he does not control the textbooks or the the coursework for educators themselves) with education ... and these programs are going to fail the children, just like NCLB currently fails, because even though HIS intent is well meaning, THOSE who will ultimately manipulate and set the framework for these new programs will make them in the same vein as NCLB.
Thats just how i see it though.
Obviously.
NCLB in name and mision statement is admirable. No child should be left behind. i don't hear you arguing that. There is a serious academic achievement gap that needs to be addressed, which is what NCLB, in its mission statement speaks to. When i say the mission statement is admirable, this is what i mean. The legislation recognizes a problem that needs to be adressed. Its mssion statement is admirable. Its practice and implementation is not admirable. Its horribly flawed. Where you miss the mark is on your assesment of Obama's plan. It is more than throwing money at failed approach. It completely changes the approach. There would be no more teaching to a test. That would stop. Real education issues would be addressed and the proper support would be offered where it is needed. Parents are stongly encouraged to be parents and take an active role in their childs education, essential early chldhood education programs would be stressed (yes this requires funding), content area would be diverse, teachers WOULD have more freedoms in their methods, etc.
If you have a quality mission, and a failed, problematic strategy of implementing and achieving that mission, that doesn't mean you scrap the mission. The mission is good. What you scrap is the failed implementation practices.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
NCLB in name and mision statement is admirable. No child should be left behind. i don't hear you arguing that.
Like i said, the Federal Reserve has an admirable mission statement. You don't hear me arguing that either. But i think the Federal Reserve should be abolished.
At some point you have to accept that it is possible that the ENTIRE program was build on semantic deception, and that the reason ONLY the NAME is "good" is because that was the INTENTION.
In other words, no amount of "retooling" of the Federal Reserve will fix it, because it is a deliberately fucked system.
I believe the same thing about NCLB, and the board of education in general, to be frank.
Now,you say "teaching to the test" would stop, but i don't see that anywhere in the literature.
NCLB IS teaching to the test.
How can you "re-tool" your way around that.
In specifics, what significant policy changes will totaly rework this system.
Beyond that, why doesn't he just scrap the damn name too, since it is so controversial and already comes with a bad connotation tied to it?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Now,you say "teaching to the test" would stop, but i don't see that anywhere in the literature.
NCLB IS teaching to the test.
How can you "re-tool" your way around that.
?
"Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them."
Its right there.
NCLB is a name. Period. The way it is CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED is teaching to a test. You CAN retool that. You CAN reform that.
That being said, it is important to remember that tests are not, in and of themselves bad. Even standardized tests can be a powerful tool for formative assessment of student progress. They aren't the only means. Far from it. Furthemore, they shouldn't be "taught to" or used as a be all and end all of assessment. THAT is the problem with NCLB implementation. The problem is not the name. Trust me, as an educator, married to an educator, and friendly with educators, i have not only read and theorized about NCLB, i experience it. Under Obama, NCLB would cease to exist as it is currently praticed if not in name.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I read this quote in an article I think it sums it up somewhat
"Obama appeals to an increasingly childish class of adults who crave an emotion-based politics and don't particularly care about the details of the package in which it comes. There is a "Kids for Obama" section on his web page but it is not clear where it ends and the rest begins."
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I read this quote in an article I think it sums it up somewhat
"Obama appeals to an increasingly childish class of adults who crave an emotion-based politics and don't particularly care about the details of the package in which it comes. There is a "Kids for Obama" section on his web page but it is not clear where it ends and the rest begins."
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Comments
I've read his page. I'm still not impressed and still don't understand the draw.
I wanted Kucinich, I've voted for Nader twice - I am aware that I am very much in the minority. Obama is not my guy and I think a lot of people are settling for him or banking on his potential to move people with his influential speeches.
With his speeches, I think people are hearing what they want to hear. If it does move people to action, I can only hope our country starts living greener and more peacefully and requires our policy makers to act accordingly. But, I wouldn't bet on that happening.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
You know, you'll probably get a kick out of this, but i want to somewhat put my foot in my mouth with regards to Obama.
In fact, having read the above it is now 100% obvious to me why "the system" is so bloody desperate to get Hillary elected.
On what do i base the "desperate" claim? Well, when you have every hack neo-con in the book (Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and others) advocating Hillary over McCain, it seems pretty clear that "the establishment" is trying to push as many voters towards Hillary as possible to cover the gap that Obama has run away with in the Democratic party himself (in other words, they need Repubs to vote Hillary or they are fucked).
SO WHY AM I SAYING THIS?
Well, i want to first disclaim that i have serious (massive red flag) issues with his Healthcare and Education goals, but OTHER THAN THAT, his plan DOES read like an honest man's intentions.
Some of what he says is so clear & specific, that unless he is just truly full of shit (possible, but i think he believes what he says, just that he is naive on some issues) there is no way to misinterpret what he is saying. AND THAT SHIT HAS TO PISS THE ELITE OFF LIKE NO ONES BUSINESS! I mean, it is a few steps shy of Ron Paul, but ...
1. He mentions drasticaly reforming NAFTA, saying it was "oversold" to the US public, and that it isn't really good for the American worker. Very much true, and very much NOT what the establishment wants to hear.
2. He wants MASSIVE legislative reform that impededs on the ability of industry and the government to fuck over the people with lies and deception. The predatory credit card stuff. The subprime mortgage stuff. The porkbarel stuff. The Pay-Go budget stuff. There are a good few more (i think) but most of those ARE decent (hell, they are good) ideas. Maybe i don't agree that the government should be involved in them at all. But given the choice of things i'd not mind seeing the government fuck around with, those are good ones!
Anyhow.
I just wanted to throw that out there.
If anyone is like me, sitting there saying, "Yeah but this guy reads just like the rest of em." ... i'm here to say, having read he point-by-points on the issues ... assuming he means what he says, SOME of that stuff is so in the face of big business and the political machine that it does make me smile a bit.
THAT BEING SAID,
i just want to caution Obama supporters that the two things i mentioned before, his plan for Education and Healthcare SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME!
Like i said, i am really starting to believe that Obama is trying hard to be an honest man, and that he IS a man of "integrity" ... HOWEVER ...
I have very strong reservations about subsidized health care. To anyone who says other countries have it, and it is proven to work. No its not proven. Subidization IS proven to subvert the way markets work, and it has lots of negative implications, but the bottom line is YOU DONT SEE THOSE IMPLICATIONS because the UNPAID COSTS (in other words, you cant guarantee cheap healthcare coverage to someone who just flat out doesn't qualify for cheap health care coverage without passing the buck somewhere) end up coming out of the value of YOUR DOLLAR through inflation. That cost is hidden over time, and in budget deficits and the national debt. It is a cost that someday will cause the whole system to come crashing own. So don't give me this line that "Yeah Europe has it and they aren't broke." Okay. Give em 50 years.
Now.
EDUCATION.
This scares me WAY WORSE than healthcare.
Why?
Because all the shit i'm starting to discover about our education system, and all of what i just read about Obamas plan (again, i assume it is a well intentioned plan) ... but basicaly he wants to FUND THE EVILDOERS.
Yeah. He wants to throw massive amounts of money at a system that is designed to do little more than brainwash your children and turn them in to life-long workers with no critical thinking ability. Only the monkey-like mentality needed to do this or that all day long. And he wants to mandate indoctrination (ability\skill tests) of ALL teachers before they can teach. Look. I don't have space to go in to it all, but the system is BROKEN and heavily infiltrated by elitist assfuckers who want little more than to feed your child lies and dumb them down.
Unless Obama understands that and has some plan around it, this education plan will just massively accelerate their plans to wipe the "american intellect" off the face of the planet.
Case in point, his solution to No-Child-Left-Behind?
FUND IT.
??!!??
THE PROGRAM SUCKS!
Its bad policy!
It doesn't need funding.
In needs to be abolished!
So anyway.
Take it for what its worth.
(i know. i'm a kook. right?)
If I opened it now would you not understand?
how does him saying that he wants to reform it mean that supports it as is and just wants to throw more money at it?
though i do agree that he should scrap the NCLB name and call his education reform plan something entirely different
Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
angels share laughter
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he's a very good one. he knows what politicians (and religious leaders) throughout history know all too well, and what science has recently proven: that human beings are hard-wired for optimism. so you just gotta know how to tingle that little optimism nerve, and you've got them hooked.
Because everyone of his plans for the current system does nothing more than throw more money at it.
"reforming the accountability process" is not going to help. The accountability process is THE PROBLEM. Reforming it ignores that it is the problem. Children and teachers don't need to jump through hoops! That is what you "teach" a kid if all you care about is ensuring he will make a good little monkey.
What kids need is FUNDAMENTALS.
Our school system has completely thrown those out.
Also, everywhere in that plan he calls for creating a new program ... that is INCREASING THE PROBLEM.
Child care program.
Afterschool program.
Summerschool program.
EARLY EDUCATION ! ! !
That reads to me as
indoctrinate & brainwash them when they aren't in school.
Indoctrinate and brainwash them after school.
Indoctrinate & brainwash them in the summertime.
and indoctrinate & brainwash them BEFORE they even get to school in the first 5 most formative years of their life!
THAT IS FUCKED UP!
WE DON'T NEED IT!
We need LESS LESS LESS LESS LESS Government in school. Not MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.
I understand that everyone wants kids to get a good education, but people need to wake up and realize that the people that are the problem are controling the school system. They are the ones writing the books, training the teachers, and setting the standards. How come the cost of education keeps going up up and up, and the education level goes down down and down.
ITS NOT THE KIDS.
ITS NOT THE TEACHERS.
ITS THE SYSTEM!
It is deliberately RIGGED to make them dumb.
And the teachers are DELIBERATELY being mis-taught on how to educate!
The department of MISeducation needs to 100% SCRAPED.
And all educational initiatives MUST go back to the states. Idealy they should go 100% away from government, PERIOD, but we STILL have the problem that the assholes who want to rape your childs minds are the ones publishing the books, training the teachers, putting out all this bad information online, setting up foundations to miseducate the educators, etc.
But we CERTAINLY don't need more money for them right now! And DEFINATELY don't need to add to their already deliberately malicious policies (ie. No Child Left Behind).
Do yourself a favor, ANYTIME you hear a program being named by the government, just flip it.
No Child Left Behind?
EVERY Child Left Behind.
Department of Education?
Department of Stupification.
Free Healthcare?
Ungodly Expensive Hidden Cost Healthcare.
Federal Reserve?
Private Bank with NO Reserves.
Catch the drift?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I agree with much of your critique of the public school system.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
look, there's a lot of problems with the public school system. just one of the main problems with the current NCLB standardized tests is that they only teach english and math(as you call them the FUNDAMENTALS) and the way that it's set up kids are only taught to take the test. that's what is turning them into good little worker monkeys.
there's always been some type of assessment testing in school (even way back in the stone age when i was in school) how else can it be decided who gets into college or who gets the job?
but i guess you overlooked this part:
He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner.
so is it still your solution to totally scrap public education making it so that if parents want their child to educated they must pay for a private school education? what of those kids with parents that can't afford a private school education? shall the US bring back child labor??
angels share laughter
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In all due respect, you really have absolutely no understanding of the issues surrounding education. A huge part of the problem is that kids are showing up for kindergarten already way behind. They are showing up completely unprepared to begin kindergarten. Early childhood education is essential to addressing the educational issues we face. Another problem is the facts that kids go home for the summer and lose much of what they learned during the school year. Kids leave school in the afternoon and go to an empty home. These are serious socio-cultural issues that have a huge impact on a child's academic success. Brainwashing?! Sorry, but this sounds like nothing more than one of your crazy conspiracy theories. Look, you obviously are one of those education is brainwashing guys and i won't try to influence you otherwise. i am interested though. How would YOU fix our educational issues. What would YOU see done?
Well his understanding of the flaws and implementation is going to have to run extremely deep if he plans on fixing it.
Look. I maintain it is a problem that can not be fixed. As long as your own money is being used against your best wishes by the government (or more appropriately, by the people abusing the government system) to reprogram your child how it sees fit, there is going to be a problem.
The problem is you have no choice.
Your child is YOURS. It should be your god given right to educate them as YOU see fit, not your government.
The only way around this is to 100% subvert government intervention by forcing them to allow substantial tax credits for individuals with children, and for individuals and businesses that would like to donate to scholarship grants for children of parents who are too poor to get a tax credit. I was for vouchers until i read this. Not the biggest CATO institute fan, but within the framework of "the system" they are okay, i guess.
Now, along with the tax credits to attend private school, you are going to need to keep the government from exerting ANY regulatory influence on private schools.
The school choice on how to educate MUST remain in the hand soley of the parents who FUND them, NOT a bureaucratic process totaly rampant with corruption and abuse.
Of course this will piss off parents of children already in private (especialy catholic) schools, because the initial wave of children under this system will come pouring in to these existing private schools before the infrastructure of private schools expands to meet the new demand.
And i'm sure someone is going to argue that it can't be afforded either. But i hardly buy that assumption, given that the cost of educating a child on the FREE market is, dollar for value recieved INFINITELY greater than that value per dollar that is achieved by public schooling!
Obama already admits he plans to dump countless amounts of money in to fix a problem that can't be fixed.
We need to be thinking about how to get kids OUT of that system ... with the eventual end goal of total elimination of the department of education, and a "re-privatization" initiative where public schools are gradualy auctioned off to the private schools or repurposed entirely.
I'm sorry.
I want to believe that the department of education can be fixed, but it is systemic and it STEMS from ONE root cause: your dollar is being spent by someone other than you on that education. PROBLEM. PERIOD.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I am not digging any deeper in to your reply than to comment on the above and say, with all due respect, that the very insightful commentary above regarding the massive "socio-cultural" issue which you have identified is by-and-large an end result of the system you are trying to save.
I could get all crazy "conspiracist" about it, but i think as an educator you should just be able to think about it for a minute and realize it is true. Children have, since the end of the 50s, grown up programmed by class rooms that have removed the focus from nurture, creative expression, rigorous route study which develops character and personal responsibility, and moral truth (real right from wrong) and replaced ALL of it with a moraly repugnant behavioral approach that only rewards kids for being right, and punishes them for being wrong and conditions them to be little more than cogs in a machine. It imparts skills for JOB success, not LIFE success, and THAT is where humanity is failing miserably.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Speaking as someone who actually knows what goes on in the classroom, who not only sees it, but practices it, i have to say you are mistaken. Does some of this happen? Of course it does. Are there teachers in our system who skate by? Yes. Just like in any profession. That is the problem with current NCLB legislation as implemented by the current administration. It emphasizes standardized test scores and handcuffs educators into teaching to these tests. They have no choice for they risk being fired if students don't perform well on these tests. The implementation of NCLB is terribly flawed. The fact that the vast majority of educators despise NCLB is witness to your mistake in judgement of educators and their goals. Is it the goal of the education system to indoctrinate and brainwash childern? That is simply not the case. Is it the goal of the Obama plan, which is really at the heart of this discussion? No. By focusing on early childhood education, he would address a major obstacle to a child's academic success. It is also true that he seeks to completely reform NCLB legislation, which actually has a respectable mission statement, so that it actually addresses the situation as it should be adressed. No more teaching to a test. No more punishing schools that don't perform well, but rather supporting them so that they will perform better. Furthermore, he adamantly endorses parental responsibility. Also, he champions art, music, literature etc. You exaggerate the problem, and wrongly assess senator Obama's plan to address it.
Here is what i don't get.
Your ONLY praise for NCLB is it "has a respectable mission statement".
That alone should tell you something.
Look at the Federal Reserve.
What is it's mission statement?
It is VERY admirable.
Keep prices stable, and inflation low.
Moderate business cycles.
What does it ACTUALY do?
The EXACT OPPOSITE.
It is RESPONSIBLE for the business cycle,
inflation is running RAMPANT, and prices are up up and up.
So when somehting is created with a commendable mission statement but utterly fails to deliver, does it just need some "tweaks" or is it SEMANTIC DECEPTION?
Secondly,
My criticism is NOT of the TEACHERS ... they themselves have been subject to a system that is trying to wrongly guide them. That they still recognize the problems with NCLB is great, but it doesn't mean those responsible for the NCLB policy were not deliberate in their intentions.
Now,
you DO recognize that the problem with NCLB is "teaching to the test", and as far as i understand, that IS what NCLB is ... it is pretty much nothing OTHER than that ... a set of standardized tests that MUST be "taught to" ...
How in fucks name is switching from punishment to positive reinforcement for teaching to the test fixing the problem? It simply gives teacher FURTHER incentive to teach to the test, right?
Where in this am i off the mark?
And again,
i am begining to be much of the opinion that Obama is a man of character (at least how he perceives himself) and is indeed well intentioned (which i think is the reason i think the establishment is still desperately trying to get hillary in office instead!) ... HOWEVER ... i think that he is going to fail (since he does not control the textbooks or the the coursework for educators themselves) with education ... and these programs are going to fail the children, just like NCLB currently fails, because even though HIS intent is well meaning, THOSE who will ultimately manipulate and set the framework for these new programs will make them in the same vein as NCLB.
Thats just how i see it though.
Obviously.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
NCLB in name and mision statement is admirable. No child should be left behind. i don't hear you arguing that. There is a serious academic achievement gap that needs to be addressed, which is what NCLB, in its mission statement speaks to. When i say the mission statement is admirable, this is what i mean. The legislation recognizes a problem that needs to be adressed. Its mssion statement is admirable. Its practice and implementation is not admirable. Its horribly flawed. Where you miss the mark is on your assesment of Obama's plan. It is more than throwing money at failed approach. It completely changes the approach. There would be no more teaching to a test. That would stop. Real education issues would be addressed and the proper support would be offered where it is needed. Parents are stongly encouraged to be parents and take an active role in their childs education, essential early chldhood education programs would be stressed (yes this requires funding), content area would be diverse, teachers WOULD have more freedoms in their methods, etc.
If you have a quality mission, and a failed, problematic strategy of implementing and achieving that mission, that doesn't mean you scrap the mission. The mission is good. What you scrap is the failed implementation practices.
Like i said, the Federal Reserve has an admirable mission statement. You don't hear me arguing that either. But i think the Federal Reserve should be abolished.
At some point you have to accept that it is possible that the ENTIRE program was build on semantic deception, and that the reason ONLY the NAME is "good" is because that was the INTENTION.
In other words, no amount of "retooling" of the Federal Reserve will fix it, because it is a deliberately fucked system.
I believe the same thing about NCLB, and the board of education in general, to be frank.
Now,you say "teaching to the test" would stop, but i don't see that anywhere in the literature.
NCLB IS teaching to the test.
How can you "re-tool" your way around that.
In specifics, what significant policy changes will totaly rework this system.
Beyond that, why doesn't he just scrap the damn name too, since it is so controversial and already comes with a bad connotation tied to it?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
"Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them."
Its right there.
NCLB is a name. Period. The way it is CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED is teaching to a test. You CAN retool that. You CAN reform that.
That being said, it is important to remember that tests are not, in and of themselves bad. Even standardized tests can be a powerful tool for formative assessment of student progress. They aren't the only means. Far from it. Furthemore, they shouldn't be "taught to" or used as a be all and end all of assessment. THAT is the problem with NCLB implementation. The problem is not the name. Trust me, as an educator, married to an educator, and friendly with educators, i have not only read and theorized about NCLB, i experience it. Under Obama, NCLB would cease to exist as it is currently praticed if not in name.
Ha! Classic.
Yeah, and this one summarizes many folks on this board:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/75-threatening-to-move-to-canada/
I love Number #71 ... I call this "Vancouver syndrome".
Obama votes to give money to Bush for the war three times: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/03/22/obama_defends_votes_in_favor_of_iraq_funding/
Obama says "no" to war funding however "yes" in reality:http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/739563,CST-NWS-sweet14.article
Obama openly supports Israel http://obama.senate.gov/news/060110-obama_meets_sha/index.php
Obama supports missile strikes on Iran and Pakistanhttp://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/oct2004/obam-o01.shtml
Obama also refers to the Iranian Republican National Gaurd a terrorist organization as well as Hezbolla
I think some people are a little too stoned out on the Obama rhetoric to see through the all smooth words they want so very desperately to hear.
Glen Beck makes some points on Obama here
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=14f_1203601141
I read this quote in an article I think it sums it up somewhat
"Obama appeals to an increasingly childish class of adults who crave an emotion-based politics and don't particularly care about the details of the package in which it comes. There is a "Kids for Obama" section on his web page but it is not clear where it ends and the rest begins."
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Looks like there's at least one blogger who has come across this info and subsequently befallen to Obama Comedown Syndrome. ---> http://beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=5413#more
BTW - thanks for your input RTD20KD
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.