So now can we get rid of Affirmative Action?
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
A black man has reached the most powerful job on the planet. There should no longer be any excuses for black people to hold whatever job that they strive for.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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don't be silly, hes only half black... so of course we have to keep it.
www.seanbrady.net
Yes. But only half of it.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Affirmative action at the workplace, I might agree since I believe in my heart that racism is very much alive in this country, so with affirmative action in the workplace I'm torn about.
Affirmative action as far as higher education goes to me is totally unfair. If a white person gets turn down when he/she has got a 4.0 GPA because the institution needs to meet their quota of women, or latinos, or whatever it is they need to meet and the person who takes that place has worse grades or less qualifications, how is that fair? People in this generation should be paying for previous generations mistakes.
Giving everyone equal opportunity in college based on grades and qualifications not on the color of their skin or their gender will only make people try harder and get better, not expect to get in just because they are a minority.
Probably not... any more. There was most certainly a time for it though.
That's not to say that America has become a totally level playing field--it hasn't. We've made a good deal of progress on race relations since the civil rights movement, but I think if we're going to make any more progress--and there is still quite a ways to go before we're even--we need to stop compensating by perpetuating inequality in a different dynamic.
I don't think the election of Barack Obama is entirely solid evidence that things are equal--if anything, he's kind of an outlying point on the grid as opposed to the average.
Technically the Supreme Court in a confusing decision in 1978 held that while affirmative action systems are constitutional, a quota system based on race is unconstitutional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke
Whether or not colleges actually go by that ruling is anyone's guess.
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http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=307969
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Funny. I feel the opposite. Minorities come from poorer schools and frequently get off on the wrong competitive foot. I'd rather see class rank emphasized. I cannot say with a straight face that someone in the Minneapolis school district (a decent urban school district) has the opportunity I had in the suburban (Robbinsdale) school district in MN. So if I finish say in the top 20% with a 26 on my ACT (yes, we use ACT, not SAT) and someone from and MPLS school finishes at the same class rank with a 23 on the ACT have I really accomplished more? I don't think so. I may be a bit more prepared so I guess my parents really "earned" that for me. All hail me. If I'd have been stuck at the University of Minnesota instead of the University of Wisconsin (tougher to get into), I'd have had less fun, but I'd have still been able to get my foot into the door. Nobody's getting denied from Harvard and getting stuck at Party State.
Then in the job market, I'd like to see it all go away. I know there's discrimination. There is also "white guilt". It's almost impossible for an employer to forget about race when hiring two essentially equal people. But if you've been given an educational opportunity in your relative youth, I'd like to see you be on your own in the job market (and the grad school market too).
Edit: so acutally, I am not necessarily for Affirmative Action as much as the acknowledgment that we are not born with an equal opportunity and that something be done about it. My "initial reaction" is to have much less emphasis on standardized tests (which I did well in) and more on class rank--then no worries about numbers because that should work itself out. Obviously other things are at play (extra curriculars, etc.). It's an art more than a science.
(I understand the argument against affirmative action, but I find it comical that there is no outrage about legacy points. It's not just blacks and poor people that sometimes feel entitlement)
Yeah but the poorest getting worse education which is not their fault, is another thing we need to fix in this country, the government needs to help with this.
I mean lets not even get to college, lets just talk about the school level as you mentioned, I can't disagree with you on that but they are all public schools (well at least the ones I'm talking about) and all children should have access to good education regardless of what district they live in :(
I know though we are far away from that still
I think that rule only patronizes the black community.
I agree. It would be great if every kid had a great K-12 education. If that truly happened, I'd not want to not even worry about evening it out in college or the job market.
I don't agree. Most NFL teams will go with also-ran coaches (read white) for interviews. Since there have been so few black coaches (or Latino coaches in Ron Rivera's case) they don't have the advantage of being a safe choice for an interview. NFL teams would also simply make their first choice because it seems safer. That's bullshit in a league that's at least 75 percent black from a player standpoint. The Rooney family took a chance on an untested assistant in his mid 30s because of the rule, liked what they saw, and then made a great hire. It took Tony Dungy two decades of being a top assistant coach to get a job in Tampa. That's too long for a coach who took teams to NFC and AFC championships and then won a Super Bowl. Besides, maybe black assistant coaches in the NFL don't feel at all patronized by the rule.
So now if Dungy were to be released from the Colts and say a team wanted him bad should they be forced to interview someone from every ethnicity that is represented in the league?
If we are ever to get past racism we need to start treating everyone equal and with the same standards.
That rule was needed at some point ... but, it doesn't seem they do anymore ... Dungy, Romeo Crennel, Lovie Smith, Mike Singletary, Marvin Lewis, Herm Edwards, Mike Tomlin ... (did I miss any?) ... they needed to do it to get the ball rolling, because the NFL just kept rotating the same shitty white coaches over and over ... but, it worked, now they have proved that black head coaches can be every bit as good, and shitty, as white coaches.
But, overall, I think the rule was a success.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I think affirmative action is one of the reasons things have changed.
It was kinda like a parent forcing kids to share. It has become a habit now--which is good.
People have become accustomed to the mix of races and genders in the work place more than they would have been without the enforced "sharing" of opportunities.
I never want to hear about it again. We are all equal. Its over with.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
"Obama’s ascendancy is likely to have the ironic effect of ending affirmative action, and the old identity politics. He became only the second Democrat since Franklin Roosevelt to win more than 51 percent of the popular vote not because he’s black, but because he is smarter, with better ideas, and showed leadership under fire. This was a victory for meritocracy.
If affirmative action survives, it will be more class-based, as Obama suggested on the campaign trail."
The Times is a super far left newspaper.
So now we have to still accept affirmative action if a person makes under a certian amount of money?
No thanks, thats bullshit. Its over IMO.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
See, the problem with many conservatives when it comes to this issue is that they poo-poo this issue, and simultaneously shoot down any alternatives. If I had my way, I'd do away with affirmative action, but I would heartily increase the money for early childhood education. I'd rebuild every school in the country. I'd make sure kids in the inner cities had smaller class sizes, access to college counselors, and adequate after-school centers. When I float these options, you call it 'welfare.' So what the hell are we supposed to do then? Affirmative action may not be the answer, but going on "as is" is not the answer, either. So until you get serious about supporting these programs and properly funding them, it sounds like you have no solutions to offer besides "Affirmative Action Bad!!!!"
The odds are stacked on anyone coming from the poorest of neiborhoods and upbringings compared to that of people who automatically Inherit wealth and privilege.
There are many in this country (no fault of their own) that automatically inherit the access to the top schools, and social networking outlets that the poorest in this country simply do not have.
Although I ultimately believe that true talent shines through in the end, I don't see it unfair to give someone the equal opportunity and a fighting chance to compete.
That being said, I can also see the flip side of the coin where some may argue that Afirmative Action is simply currput and nothing more than an unfair punishment put in place to ease our "White Guilt".
Personally, I think this ultimatley is a product of a broken class system in this country and one that we are merely putting a bandage over rather than focusing on healing a much bigger cut.
So if Obama had lost the election, would affirmative action still be necessary? How about Palin or Hiliary, both of whom, as minorities can use the affirmative action laws, because I'm sure you know that affirmative action was not just for blacks.
Funny how you never hear these colleges with high profile football and basketball teams complaining about affirmative action. These universities that draw millions of dollars for the sports programs. Athletes on full scholarships, that the read and write on a jr. high level. Athletes who's mathematical, science and english skills make you shudder, yet they somehow always maintain the NCAA qualify grade level.
I'd like to see affirmative action done away with, it can always be reinstituted if needed.