Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money

mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
edited November 2008 in A Moving Train
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • LizardLizard So Cal Posts: 12,091
    I saw that on Yahoo.

    God how do you not get it???????
    So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
    Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
  • disgusting...
  • I'm so sick of these jackholes.
  • it IS disgusting....but i DO think there is a probable 'rationale' for such. worry of kidnapping issues of top CEOs. i think private jets, ostentatious as they may be, probably DO afford them a greater level of security than flying commerically may. i am not *excusing* their behavior at all.....just actually looking at it from another side, a possibility, that's all.
    Stay with me...
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  • I saw the clip last night from Rep Ackerman that was quoted in the article you posted. Good stuff...

    "There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.

    "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."

    He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."
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  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    With all the money that these guys have, don't you think they would have to have publicists who are smart enough to say, "hey, this looks really, really bad." I mean, people here get it, and we sit around on a message board. They really have publicists paid exorbitant amounts of money that don't get that?
  • The only thing worse than flying in a private jet to Washington to ask for billions in bailout money...is a Washington politician sitting up on their high horse poking fun at these CEO's for flying in a private jet while STILL contemplating actually giving the billions to these guys.
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  • iamicaiamica Chicago Posts: 2,628
    Before you know it, every retail chain in America will be asking for bailouts. When does it end?
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  • I live in Detroit, have a job that directly relates to the auto industry, as do many of my friends and family. A business associate, who works in the finance dept at General Motors, forwarded this letter to me in PDF format. (being not very computer savvy, I couldn't figure out how to directly link a pdf file into a message for the board). If you'd like me to forward you the official email on the letterhead with signature, I would be happy to do so, but here it is, cut and pasted:





    November 19, 2008
    Mr. Brian Ross
    Chief Investigative Correspondent
    ABC News
    7 West 66th Street
    New York, NY 10023

    Dear Mr. Ross:

    Concerning your November 19 report, “Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds,” it is unfortunate that your story did not give viewers a full picture of why companies have planes and use them as part of routine business.

    The truth is that companies of all sizes, all across the country, fly many types of aircraft to places where there is often little or no commercial airline service, so that they can reach new markets, deliver parts to keep assembly lines open, provide just-in-time customer service, reach distant company offices, transport sales teams, and fly a host of other types of missions in order to stay nimble and remain competitive, especially in a tough economic climate.

    Studies show business use of general aviation aircraft adds tangible value to a
    company’s bottom line. Businesspeople can make a trip involving stops at several locations, then return to headquarters the same day, saving time and travel expenses that would be needed to make the same trip over several days via auto, train or airline transport. Also, because employees can meet, plan and work with each other aboard business aircraft, productivity, confidentiality and security en route are assured.

    In a difficult economy like the one facing us now, the opportunities offered by this mode of transport become even more important, because companies have to work harder to grow their business, find new markets and serve existing customers. We’re disappointed that your report left viewers with a skewed impression of how and when business airplanes are routinely used.

    Sincerely,
    Ed Bolen

    President and CEO
    National Business Aviation Association







    It is basically a double-edged sword, whatever is decided.

    If we give them the bailout/loan, it would appear to say it's okay that the executives keep on padding their pockets while sending the jobs overseas because it's cheaper. And they have no intention of changing this practice in the future.

    But on the other hand, if we don't help, it means thousands of jobs will be lost. Thousands of businesses will be forced to close their doors. Thousands of families will be affected.

    It is really quite sad.
    There are three types of people in this world: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened.

    We do not inherit the earth from our parents. We borrow it from our children.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    If they give the bailout, the executives have got to go. They don't cut their salaries, they go. Some may say that's excessive government intervention, but if they do actually decide to give the bailout (which I don't have a firm opinion yet as to whether they should or not), I feel that ship has already sailed.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    i love how these guys are blaming the global credit crunch solely for the demise of their business ... saying it isn't there product line or how they do business ... these guys think they can walk on water ... and none of them have the balls to stand up and take responsibility for their own doings ...
  • digster wrote:
    If they give the bailout, the executives have got to go. They don't cut their salaries, they go. Some may say that's excessive government intervention, but if they do actually decide to give the bailout (which I don't have a firm opinion yet as to whether they should or not), I feel that ship has already sailed.

    I agree with you that the execs should go.

    That being said, not only do I believe they'll retain their positions, I pretty much expect to read about the distribution of their annual bonuses in the future.

    Anybody expecting anything different needs their head examined.
    We live in a greedy world.
    There are three types of people in this world: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened.

    We do not inherit the earth from our parents. We borrow it from our children.
  • Let them hit rock bottom, then re organize the fucked up situation with the unions since they are the real reaosn why these guys are asking for money in the firat place. Those people are WAY WAY WAY over paid.






    Fucking unions. Its really sad to see what has become of them.
    Greedy lazy workers.
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • Sorry- as a pilot of a private jet I had to interject.

    I'll admit it's clear I have a biased view but I would like to echo a previous post and reiterate the fact that, although on the surface it seems that private jet travel is ostentatious and excessive, it is a valuable tool that enables those who utilize it the means to save large mounts of time and in many cases access to opportunites previously unavailable to them.

    In the case of the Detroit execs it may have been possible to airline in but there are few direct flights and it would have taken them half a day to get there and half a day to get back including ground transport and layover times. If they had a meeting in the morning, the DC meeting, and a meeting in the evening an airline would not have been possible.

    I know it looks awful but I assure you- the planes a there to essentially make money in the case of a large, international company.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    Let them hit rock bottom, then re organize the fucked up situation with the unions since they are the real reaosn why these guys are asking for money in the firat place. Those people are WAY WAY WAY over paid.






    Fucking unions. Its really sad to see what has become of them.
    Greedy lazy workers.

    Union contracts obviously have to be reorganized and the minimum per hour salary has to be lowered, but I think you're oversimplifying to the nth-degree if you're saying that those contracts are the sole reason they have come upon hardships.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Tenzing N. wrote:
    Sorry- as a pilot of a private jet I had to interject.

    I'll admit it's clear I have a biased view but I would like to echo a previous post and reiterate the fact that, although on the surface it seems that private jet travel is ostentatious and excessive, it is a valuable tool that enables those who utilize it the means to save large mounts of time and in many cases access to opportunites previously unavailable to them.

    In the case of the Detroit execs it may have been possible to airline in but there are few direct flights and it would have taken them half a day to get there and half a day to get back including ground transport and layover times. If they had a meeting in the morning, the DC meeting, and a meeting in the evening an airline would not have been possible.

    I know it looks awful but I assure you- the planes a there to essentially make money in the case of a large, international company.

    but did each of them have to take a separate plane? they were all going to the same place....how about plane-pooling?
  • They could have all flown together but it's virtually unheard of in the corporate world. Again- it's all about time and schedule.

    They should really all go to the fracs. and save lots of money.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    i loved when they were asked to raise their hands if they were willing to sell their jet and the 1 guy thought about it but didn't put it all the way up when he saw no one else budged
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    polaris wrote:
    i love how these guys are blaming the global credit crunch solely for the demise of their business ... saying it isn't there product line or how they do business ... these guys think they can walk on water ... and none of them have the balls to stand up and take responsibility for their own doings ...


    i've heard guests on cnn say the unreasonable demands by unions and paying the workers too much is a big part of the problem
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Let them hit rock bottom, then re organize the fucked up situation with the unions since they are the real reaosn why these guys are asking for money in the firat place. Those people are WAY WAY WAY over paid.






    Fucking unions. Its really sad to see what has become of them.
    Greedy lazy workers.

    Amen to that. You hit the nail on the head.
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  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i've heard guests on cnn say the unreasonable demands by unions and paying the workers too much is a big part of the problem

    don't get me started on the union workers ... same guys who demand high pay for their work but yet shop at wal-mart ...

    having said that - i'd like to see what the bonus payouts were last year to upper management ... i'm guessing they still gave themselves bonuses despite the impeding crisis ...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    There best bet right now is bankruptcy, Chapter 11. It will be the quickest way for them to get out from under burdening union contracts and debits to suppliers. Of course the CEO's don't want this because they are more likely to loose their jobs if they file for bankruptcy. Another option is just to start selling portions of their companies to healthier competitors, but I don't think a bail out, even though originally I entertained the idea, is the right answer.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
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