WOW the Stock Market just fell under 10,000

mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
So much for the $700 billion bail out restoring confidence.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I think it's probably still too inflated really. We make NOTHING in the US anymore other than Cheeseburgers and Pizza.

    The global bailouts are affecting investing now. That and people don't have a lot to spend, because again, we're based on nothing. We sell AIR and Protection. Insurance companies are among the most profitable in the nation and they sell fucking risk.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I think it's probably still too inflated really. We make NOTHING in the US anymore other than Cheeseburgers and Pizza.

    The global bailouts are affecting investing now. That and people don't have a lot to spend, because again, we're based on nothing. We sell AIR and Protection. Insurance companies are among the most profitable in the nation and they sell fucking risk.


    I couldn't agree more, that is why I thought the bail out was a bad idea because it doesn't address the problem. It merely sweeps it under the rug.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    funny thing is tho that during these years - some people have made loads of money!
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Oil seems to have moved down quite a bit today as well, it's $86 a barrel at the moment.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • The bailout was a dumb idea. They need to be listening to Ron Paul.

    I'm officially back to undecided 08.
    the Minions
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    polaris wrote:
    funny thing is tho that during these years - some people have made loads of money!


    Sure they have, and my gripe with them is that they aren't content with just making heaploads of money consistantly, they want to scheme and lobby and get people they want elected so bill lumbergs stock can go up another .25% The massaging of the system is what is so fucking disgusting.

    I don't begrudge profits, I hate class warfare. What our large companies and our politicians try to do is play both sides, so no one is checked. It's fucking bullshit and I'm pissed off about it.

    Congrats to all of us Americans though, we now own 700 Billion dollars worth of bad paper so we can keep creating billions more dollars worth of bad paper. Did it have to happen.. I guess, sure, but it's only going to extend the next bubble to be burst.

    So you think we should put Houses or Hotels on Baltic Avenue after we get out of Jail?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I think it's probably still too inflated really. We make NOTHING in the US anymore other than Cheeseburgers and Pizza.

    The global bailouts are affecting investing now. That and people don't have a lot to spend, because again, we're based on nothing. We sell AIR and Protection. Insurance companies are among the most profitable in the nation and they sell fucking risk.


    I don't think manufacturing is the answer. We simply can't compete with the cheap labor abroad. We are a service economy and IMHO there's nothing wrong with that. We have very large shares of information, professional and business services, and financial activities industries. But, yea, these industries are exposed to the current downturn.

    The dollar is rising fast, as this seeps into international markets. That means.... they are considering the dollar safe. If you think the U.S. is falling fast, watch foreign markets. Emerging Markets, like China, are going to have thier bubble burst if this continues.

    The "world" will be in a complete mess if the U.S. sinks.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    spiral out wrote:
    Oil seems to have moved down quite a bit today as well, it's $86 a barrel at the moment.

    Well demand, I believe is down and the dollar is at a high.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan wrote:
    So much for the $700 billion bail out restoring confidence.

    next move: .50 basis rate cut.

    bad news: its already priced in, if it DOESN'T happen, we have even worse problems.

    as far as the bailout goes: well, lets give it a couple of weeks and see how the credit markets react. I'm quite certain that little if any of that $700 billion has actually been used to buy up that nasty paper yet.

    Either way, none of this should really come as a suprise to folks now.
    Right?

    Deleveraging is a bitch.
    At least we aren't staring down the barrell of a fresh bank failure today.
    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    next move: .50 basis rate cut.

    bad news: its already priced in, if it DOESN'T happen, we have even worse problems.

    as far as the bailout goes: well, lets give it a couple of weeks and see how the credit markets react. I'm quite certain that little if any of that $700 billion has actually been used to buy up that nasty paper yet.

    Either way, none of this should really come as a suprise to folks now.
    Right?

    Deleveraging is a bitch.
    At least we aren't staring down the barrell of a fresh bank failure today.
    ;)


    I think the next move is a united global central bank rate cut. This is no joke, I think they should cut by 100 bps. They got to act fast./
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    next move: .50 basis rate cut.

    bad news: its already priced in, if it DOESN'T happen, we have even worse problems.

    as far as the bailout goes: well, lets give it a couple of weeks and see how the credit markets react. I'm quite certain that little if any of that $700 billion has actually been used to buy up that nasty paper yet.

    Either way, none of this should really come as a suprise to folks now.
    Right?

    Deleveraging is a bitch.
    At least we aren't staring down the barrell of a fresh bank failure today.
    ;)

    The $700 billion will buy up the bad debt here but what about foreign markets. How is the bail out going to affect them?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Black DiamondBlack Diamond Posts: 25,107
    saveuplife wrote:
    I think the next move is a united global central bank rate cut. This is no joke, I think they should cut by 100 bps. They got to act fast./

    That is fine outside the US but the FED has already blown their load and really can't do much more than the 50 bps that is already priced in.

    The US is on the verge of being the Japan economy.
    GoiMTvP.gif
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    saveuplife wrote:
    I don't think manufacturing is the answer. We simply can't compete with the cheap labor abroad. We are a service economy and IMHO there's nothing wrong with that. We have very large shares of information, professional and business services, and financial activities industries. But, yea, these industries are exposed to the current downturn.

    The dollar is rising fast, as this seeps into international markets. That means.... they are considering the dollar safe. If you think the U.S. is falling fast, watch foreign markets. Emerging Markets, like China, are going to have thier bubble burst if this continues.

    The "world" will be in a complete mess if the U.S. sinks.


    That's true, when your biggest purchaser can't afford the goods. Down goes frazier.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Brutal.

    Obviously the 700 dollar bailout was like putting makeup on a corpse.
  • That is fine outside the US but the FED has already blown their load and really can't do much more than the 50 bps that is already priced in.

    The US is on the verge of being the Japan economy.

    The Fed just increased their TAF inejctions (AGAIN) from 400 some billion this time up to 900 billion.

    (And like i said, last week they announced it would go from 300 to 400).

    That should help too, although it pisses me off at the same time.

    Keep in mind these are NOT treasury auctions, these are essentialy diguised emergency loans to banks, exchanged for clollateral. And fortunately for the banks the "collateralization requirements" have been so severely reduced in the last year that now they are allowed to give the Fed things like mortages and investment paper ... and i think the terms went from overnight to 28 days, and then to 6 months, and now its like "eh, just repay it when you can".

    But we'll see if it helps a lick.
    Add ANOTHER trillion to the books.

    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Brutal.

    Obviously the 700 dollar bailout was like putting makeup on a corpse.

    That money is not at work yet.
    The government still has to work to price assets at firms,
    and then get those firms to make offers to them for a sale.

    I have no idea how long that will take, but i would have hoped that someone with authority would be on top of this from the word "jump".

    We'll see.

    Either way, folks you can expect this to remain brutal for a while.
    When i said we were going to 7,500 a while ago, i wasn't joking.
    Sorry for those who thought it was just fearmongering.
    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Black DiamondBlack Diamond Posts: 25,107
    That money is not at work yet.
    The government still has to work to price assets at firms,
    and then get those firms to make offers to them for a sale.

    I have no idea how long that will take, but i would have hoped that someone with authority would be on top of this from the word "jump".

    We'll see.

    Either way, folks you can expect this to remain brutal for a while.
    When i said we were going to 7,500 a while ago, i wasn't joking.
    Sorry for those who thought it was just fearmongering.
    ;)

    You are right on top of where my prediction was although I thought we would have been closer to that by now. As usual the equity market was dreaming while fixed income had this called awhile ago.

    The problem are going to be really bad in the short run as Q3 numbers are coming due with projections for remainder of year.

    You know we are not at bottom becuause Commercial Real Estate has not started thier declines nor are delinquency numbers up. With bank failures, very low holiday season projections beginning and holiday traveling most likely to suffer, we should see that worm turn in Q1 09.
    GoiMTvP.gif
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Our economy is a house of cards. What we are seeing is a result of deregulation, greed and a system based on so much debt and credit, it is bound to occur given the proper settings.

    I think if the US citizens can bankrupt the future via bailouts, the greedy companies which caused this mess should have the same fate. Down with DOW!
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Pacomc79 wrote:
    I think it's probably still too inflated really. We make NOTHING in the US anymore other than Cheeseburgers and Pizza.

    The global bailouts are affecting investing now. That and people don't have a lot to spend, because again, we're based on nothing. We sell AIR and Protection. Insurance companies are among the most profitable in the nation and they sell fucking risk.

    don't forget military support...

    a couple more wars and the cash will come rolling in.
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    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    don't forget military support...

    a couple more wars and the cash will come rolling in.


    Oh yes...

    Can't forget our other wonderful export...WAR...BOMBS...DEATH
  • Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Oh yes...

    Can't forget our other wonderful export...WAR...BOMBS...DEATH
    QFT
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • beachdwellerbeachdweller Posts: 1,532
    mammasan wrote:
    So much for the $700 billion bail out restoring confidence.

    60 minutes had a great segment on the shadow trading that was the underlying reason of the failure, they were trading 60 trillion dollars worth of insurance bonds that they changed the name to, so they weren't regulated as insurance, and so no one was actually required to have capital to back up the insurance. Of course the insurance bonds were issued to talk people into purchasing junk bonds that physists and mathmaticians created and no one understood.

    It's seriously some illegal shit that they many people need to go to jail for.
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

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  • CNBC's Art Cashin (floor trader at the NYSE) now saying floor is expecting a close at the lows of the day.

    Technical trade after rally failed to break trendline from Friday.
    Markets at -728 DOW right now. 9598 is current read.

    Art also said the floor is expecting a major event in Europe over night which would prompt a sharp and significant sell off tomorrow morning at the NYSE, and HOPEFULLY a snap back rally just before lunch.

    But don't hold your breath for any significant up move, imho.

    I think we could lose 2000 points this week, to be honest.
    Although i IMAGINE such downside volatility would prompt emergency Fed action -- ie. rate cut.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Given to...Given to... Wyoming Posts: 4,997
    Just curious, what do you do for a living? Seriously.

    I am in mining/manufacturing (soda ash) and I see layoffs in the not so distant future if thing dont at the very least stabilize.

    That money is not at work yet.
    The government still has to work to price assets at firms,
    and then get those firms to make offers to them for a sale.

    I have no idea how long that will take, but i would have hoped that someone with authority would be on top of this from the word "jump".

    We'll see.

    Either way, folks you can expect this to remain brutal for a while.
    When i said we were going to 7,500 a while ago, i wasn't joking.
    Sorry for those who thought it was just fearmongering.
    ;)
    "...would you like some forks?" EV 12-02-06
  • I'll have to rummage thru the attic for my "Dow 10,000" hat. I'm guessing there wasn't balloons and champagne this time the Dow hit 10,000. On the plus side, if the Dow goes up 570 points tomorrow, we'll be back to where we were 7 3/4 years ago, when Bush took office. Can you imagine a 2 term president leaving with the DJIA lower than on the day he took office 8 years prior
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    That thing about the Mayan calendar makes a whole lot more sense to me now.
  • sponger wrote:
    That thing about the Mayan calendar makes a whole lot more sense to me now.

    2012 is weird.
    :eek:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
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