Burmese generals stealing aid

mammasan

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/14/asia/myanmar.php

This is why I supported the US government's decision to withhold aid unless our aid workers where allowed into the country. While their citizens are dying by the truck load, and with the threat of another cyclone heading towards the area, these bastards are hoarding aid.

inmytree

this is disgusting...

sadly, things my not get any better due to the troubles China is having with the earthquake...If China were to tell the Junta to allow aid from everyone, things would be better...

spiral out

I can't say this is surprising. But it is highly annoying.

farfromglorified

Unfathomable. And the real death toll has only started. Diarrhea and malaria are going to make the direct effects of the storms look pedestrian.

Heineken Helen

Of course this shouldn't happen at all and individuals will always pull this kinda shit but it doesn't sound that bad... there've been SOME reports of taking good quality stuff and replacing it with less quality stuff... but the less quality stuff is still getting through. And from your own source:

"Reports have been mixed about how much aid is actually getting through to the delta. One longtime relief coordinator in Myanmar said Tuesday that 30 percent of the people in the affected areas had been reached.

But other agencies were encouraged about recent improvements in deliveries, especially those groups with projects and local staff already in place, and the agencies with established working relationships with the government.

The World Health Organization said that its medical supplies were arriving in the country normally, without being diverted, siphoned off or replaced with substandard items. Its deliveries were even being made to Labutta and Bogale, two badly damaged areas deep in the southern delta.

Shari Villarosa, the senior diplomat at the U.S. Embassy in Yangon, said she was encouraged by the military government's acceptance of aid and said that it was a remarkable development given what she called the xenophobia of the junta, but that aid itself would not be enough."

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

Of course this shouldn't happen at all and individuals will always pull this kinda shit but it doesn't sound that bad... there've been SOME reports of taking good quality stuff and replacing it with less quality stuff... but the less quality stuff is still getting through. And from your own source:

"Reports have been mixed about how much aid is actually getting through to the delta. One longtime relief coordinator in Myanmar said Tuesday that 30 percent of the people in the affected areas had been reached.

But other agencies were encouraged about recent improvements in deliveries, especially those groups with projects and local staff already in place, and the agencies with established working relationships with the government.

The World Health Organization said that its medical supplies were arriving in the country normally, without being diverted, siphoned off or replaced with substandard items. Its deliveries were even being made to Labutta and Bogale, two badly damaged areas deep in the southern delta.

Shari Villarosa, the senior diplomat at the U.S. Embassy in Yangon, said she was encouraged by the military government's acceptance of aid and said that it was a remarkable development given what she called the xenophobia of the junta, but that aid itself would not be enough."

Yeah, they're really on top of things:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7402105.stm

Heineken Helen

farfromglorified wrote:

Yeah, they're really on top of things:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7402105.stm

what's that got to do with aid getting through? I've said before this is no time for politics or pointing the blame on EITHER side. There are people fucking dying... Right now I couldn't care less about their stupid bloody constitution, and they shouldn't either... let the politicians handle that crap!

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

what's that got to do with aid getting through? I've said before this is no time for politics or pointing the blame on EITHER side. There are people fucking dying... Right now I couldn't care less about their stupid bloody constitution, and they shouldn't either... let the politicians handle that crap!

the blame for lack of aid and delay in getting that aid to the people, lies squarely at the feet of the military junta. tis a shame the US and friends didnt just roll in their like they do other places with less cause.

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

the blame for lack of aid and delay in getting that aid to the people, lies squarely at the feet of the military junta. tis a shame the US and friends didnt just roll in their like they do other places with less cause.

good point... and for those reasons I can understand their paranoia to a certain extent!

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

what's that got to do with aid getting through?

1) It's a complete distraction when all resources and manpower should be invested in distributing aid.
2) It further cements their power and increses their authority in the face of a very angry population.

I've said before this is no time for politics or pointing the blame on EITHER side.

A lack of pointing blame isn't going to feed or care for anyone. The fact of the matter is that this government is standing in the way of foreign aid deliveries not only from the US but from UN organizations and other country. Yes, they have stepped back a bit, but barely any of the aid is getting where it needs to go.

There are people fucking dying... Right now I couldn't care less about their stupid bloody constitution, and they shouldn't either... let the politicians handle that crap!

Sigh.......

There are people "fucking dying" largely because of the politics within Burma over the past 40 years.

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

good point... and for those reasons I can understand their paranoia to a certain extent!

paranoia LMAO!!! myanmar is run by a military dictatorship they should be bloody paranoid. but alas there is no need for their petroleum atm and so they are allowed to slide on their human rights abuses.

Heineken Helen

farfromglorified wrote:

1) It's a complete distraction when all resources and manpower should be invested in distributing aid.
2) It further cements their power and increses their authority in the face of a very angry population.



A lack of pointing blame isn't going to feed or care for anyone. The fact of the matter is that this government is standing in the way of foreign aid deliveries not only from the US but from UN organizations and other country. Yes, they have stepped back a bit, but barely any of the aid is getting where it needs to go.



Sigh.......

There are people "fucking dying" largely because of the politics within Burma over the past 40 years.

:rolleyes: it's an act of god... maybe this will lead to some kinda uprising! This shouldn't be seen as any kinda opportunity by the outside world. Deal with the issue at hand... people dying, give them the food to distribute... if they swap the food for cheaper stuff, it's still getting out. It's neither catostrophic NOR surprising that a few individuals of a military junta have acted out of line!

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

:rolleyes: it's an act of god...

LOL..."an act of god"??? No, it's a cyclone, a regular result of tropical weather patterns. And its effects, in a well run nation, do not equate to millions of deaths. And that's exactly where this is headed.

maybe this will lead to some kinda uprising!

One can only hope.

This shouldn't be seen as any kinda opportunity by the outside world. Deal with the issue at hand... people dying, give them the food to distribute... if they swap the food for cheaper stuff, it's still getting out. It's neither catostrophic NOR surprising that a few individuals of a military junta have acted out of line!

WTF...if you swap walter filtration tablets for a rotten loaf of bread, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's still getting out". If you swap anti-malarial drugs for a sack of rice, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's still getting out". If you swap water pumps for blankets, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's stillgetting out". Aid is not some singular commodity. Perhaps I could swap out your computer for an etch-a-sketch and we'll see where that gets you.

And no, it's not surprising. But when you see the final death toll on this, compare the cyclone deaths to the post-cyclone deaths and you get back to me on whether or not it's "catostrophic".

Heineken Helen

farfromglorified wrote:

LOL..."an act of god"??? No, it's a cyclone, a regular result of tropical weather patterns. And its effects, in a well run nation, do not equate to millions of deaths. And that's exactly where this is headed.

One can only hope.

WTF...if you swap walter filtration tablets for a rotten loaf of bread, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's still getting out". If you swap anti-malarial drugs for a sack of rice, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's still getting out". If you swap water pumps for blankets, it's irrelevant whether or not "it's stillgetting out". Aid is not some singular commodity. Perhaps I could swap out your computer for an etch-a-sketch and we'll see where that gets you.

And no, it's not surprising. But when you see the final death toll on this, compare the cyclone deaths to the post-cyclone deaths and you get back to me on whether or not it's "catostrophic".

they talked about swapping biscuits :rolleyes: . You're exaggerating the story! I didn't see a mention of swapping drugs for rice. And as far as I, and insurance companies, are aware, a cyclone is an act of god... you can't blame a dictatorship for a cyclone.

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

they talked about swapping biscuits :rolleyes: . You're exaggerating the story!

I'm not talking about the story -- I'm talking about your logic.

So far, it's been accused that the government is hoarding good staples and equipment and handing out rotten food and broken or useless equipment. There are now aid agencies desperately trying to get into Burma to deliver medicines and equipment that will be required to save millions of lives from post-cyclone diseases. So please do not pretend that it's irrelevant what the Burmese government does with the necessary items that come into their nation so long as something "is getting out"

I didn't see a mention of swapping drugs for rice. And as far as I, and insurance companies, are aware, a cyclone is an act of god... you can't blame a dictatorship for a cyclone.

I'm not blaming a dictatorship for a cyclone. I'm blaming the dictatorship for its insane behavior in response to that cyclone. Moreover, I'm blaming the dictatorship for raping the economy of what once was a prosperous Asian nation and, in the process, putting these people in exactly this situation.

That blame, however, isn't going to get anyone anywhere. It's time for the US, the UN, and any aid agencies willing to suffer the risk to treat this government as an irrelevancy and simply start taking aid in themselves. In other words, it's time to call their bluff.

mammasan

Heineken Helen wrote:

they talked about swapping biscuits :rolleyes: . You're exaggerating the story! I didn't see a mention of swapping drugs for rice. And as far as I, and insurance companies, are aware, a cyclone is an act of god... you can't blame a dictatorship for a cyclone.

Hi protein biscuits that are essential for these people to survive on for off the shelf crackers. That is a huge fucking difference. I have to agree with FFG it's time for the international community to call these fuckers bluff and just start sending people in without the Burmese governments approval.

Kann

mammasan wrote:

Hi protein biscuits that are essential for these people to survive on for off the shelf crackers. That is a huge fucking difference. I have to agree with FFG it's time for the international community to call these fuckers bluff and just start sending people in without the Burmese governments approval.

Seeing that it's against the will of the Burmese leaders wouldn't that be seen as coercion?

More seriously, apart from this action (going in without approval) breaching several laws, it will certainly piss off China. And we all found out recently (during the olympic torch travel) that no government wanted to piss off China. I doubt anything will be done, and when the subject leaves the media shelf most of us will unfortunately forget about it.

mammasan

Kann wrote:

Seeing that it's against the will of the Burmese leaders wouldn't that be seen as coercion?

More seriously, apart from this action (going in without approval) breaching several laws, it will certainly piss off China. And we all found out recently (during the olympic torch travel) that no government wanted to piss off China. I doubt anything will be done, and when the subject leaves the media shelf most of us will unfortunately forget about it.

It would but what they are doing is simply unacceptable. I'm not saying we should send troops in and topple the Burmese government but we should at least put more pressure on that country to allow aid workers in to do what is necessary to help these people.

farfromglorified

Kann wrote:

Seeing that it's against the will of the Burmese leaders wouldn't that be seen as coercion?

Absolutely not. It's not "coercive" for one person to grant charity to another person against the will of the Burmese government. That's ridiculous logic that would imply either Burmese ownership of its own people (yikes) or Burmese singularity with their socialistic military dictatorship (double yikes).

Launching a ground war against Burma would be coercive. Carpet bombing Burmese governmental installations would be coercive. But landing an aircraft carrier on the shores of Burma and gathering up those who wish to leave Burma and providing aid to those who wish to stay is the opposite of coercion.

More seriously, apart from this action (going in without approval) breaching several laws, it will certainly piss off China. And we all found out recently (during the olympic torch travel) that no government wanted to piss off China. I doubt anything will be done, and when the subject leaves the media shelf most of us will unfortunately forget about it.

Meh...China's not going to take much of a beef with foreign nations providing aid to Burma through non-aggressive means.

Kann

farfromglorified wrote:

Absolutely not. It's not "coercive" for one person to grant charity to another person against the will of the Burmese government.

Sorry, that was just a cynical remark.

farfromglorified wrote:

Meh...China's not going to take much of a beef with foreign nations providing aid to Burma through non-aggressive means.

I'm not so sure about that. Getting 'unwanted' aid in Burma will most likely need more than just an aircraft and peaceful ngo's or this would already have been done. And anyways China seems to be blocking UN resolutions proposing humanitarian interventions.
Remember the stance China took during the massive repression earlier this year?

farfromglorified

Kann wrote:

Sorry, that was just a cynical remark.

My bad -- thought you were being serious.

I'm not so sure about that. Getting 'unwanted' aid in Burma will most likely need more than just an aircraft and peaceful ngo's or this would already have been done. And anyways China seems to be blocking UN resolutions proposing humanitarian interventions.
Remember the stance China took during the massive repression earlier this year?

Absolutely. Remember when a US spy plane crashed in China and all it really took to get past it was some silly diplomacy?

Obviously China does not want a new Iraq on its border. But so long as regime change or arming separatists in Burma are off the table and the US simply sends in largely unarmed support forces to help deliver and distribute aid, the worst we'll see from China is blustering about "sovereignty this" and "foreigners that".