American Ingenuity

mammasan

I was having a talk last week with a couple of guys from a class I take. The conversation turned to our kids and education. To make a long story short two of the guys there have kids who have lived overseas, Japan and Kuwait to be specific. They where explaining how mcuh more advanced academically, specifically in the areas of math and science, the schools in those countries are compared to here. This brought on a question, have we as American been fed the line that America is so great and we are so powerfull that we have stopped trying to be the best and now just expect that we are the best. I happen to believe that we have lost our way. We now just assume that we are the best without actually working to be the best. I would like to hear what others think about this.

Ahnimus

It's culture. Americans as well as Canadians seize the freedom of choice. We think that happiness and greatness is in our ability to choose. But most of us just sit around watching TV, eating McDonald's and getting fat.

China and places have always had different customs. They eat more sushi which is better than McDonald's. Many of those countries have company employees outside doing exercises in the morning. It's just a completely different culture and society there expects different things from people.

chopitdown

mammasan wrote:

I was having a talk last week with a couple of guys from a class I take. The conversation turned to our kids and education. To make a long story short two of the guys there have kids who have lived overseas, Japan and Kuwait to be specific. They where explaining how mcuh more advanced academically, specifically in the areas of math and science, the schools in those countries are compared to here. This brought on a question, have we as American been fed the line that America is so great and we are so powerfull that we have stopped trying to be the best and now just expect that we are the best. I happen to believe that we have lost our way. We now just assume that we are the best without actually working to be the best. I would like to hear what others think about this.

I think that our school system tries to be the best at everything and that is where we go wrong. We don't have a philosophy in education other than...someone else is number one in this area so we have to now be number one their...uh oh, scandanavian countries are better at english and the arts...we better focus on that now. We are trying to be everything to everyone and be better than everyone at everything. You know the saying...jack of all trades master of none. That's our education system. We'll get all kids to a bare minimum but we won't (and probably don't know how) to push our kids. Maybe if we had 2 separate systems...one for the arts and one for the sciences we'd be able to develop better students at each.

But I think we're also more and more lazy. Society doesnt' really place an importance on learning...it places an importance on getting things done. If a kid has homework they just want to finish it so they can do something else...They don't want to learn it necessarily. They want to cross it off their to do list: somehow.

farfromglorified

mammasan wrote:

I was having a talk last week with a couple of guys from a class I take. The conversation turned to our kids and education. To make a long story short two of the guys there have kids who have lived overseas, Japan and Kuwait to be specific. They where explaining how mcuh more advanced academically, specifically in the areas of math and science, the schools in those countries are compared to here. This brought on a question, have we as American been fed the line that America is so great and we are so powerfull that we have stopped trying to be the best and now just expect that we are the best. I happen to believe that we have lost our way. We now just assume that we are the best without actually working to be the best. I would like to hear what others think about this.

Who has time for math when we're busy teaching diversity?

Pacomc79

mammasan wrote:

I was having a talk last week with a couple of guys from a class I take. The conversation turned to our kids and education. To make a long story short two of the guys there have kids who have lived overseas, Japan and Kuwait to be specific. They where explaining how mcuh more advanced academically, specifically in the areas of math and science, the schools in those countries are compared to here. This brought on a question, have we as American been fed the line that America is so great and we are so powerfull that we have stopped trying to be the best and now just expect that we are the best. I happen to believe that we have lost our way. We now just assume that we are the best without actually working to be the best. I would like to hear what others think about this.

yes, absolutely, complacency is a big part of it.

mammasan

chopitdown wrote:

I think that our school system tries to be the best at everything and that is where we go wrong. We don't have a philosophy in education other than...someone else is number one in this area so we have to now be number one their...uh oh, scandanavian countries are better at english and the arts...we better focus on that now. We are trying to be everything to everyone and be better than everyone at everything. You know the saying...jack of all trades master of none. That's our education system. We'll get all kids to a bare minimum but we won't (and probably don't know how) to push our kids. Maybe if we had 2 separate systems...one for the arts and one for the sciences we'd be able to develop better students at each.

But I think we're also more and more lazy. Society doesnt' really place an importance on learning...it places an importance on getting things done. If a kid has homework they just want to finish it so they can do something else...They don't want to learn it necessarily. They want to cross it off their to do list: somehow.

I agree with this. I've been stating this for some time. That once our children are out of elementary school that education should be tailored to their strengths and likes. Instead of forcing a student , who has no desire to study math, to sit through calculus and geomotry they should have the option of taking courses that interest them. Secondly I believe that most students go to college not because they want to learn but because they want a better job. Of course we all want to make good money but that should not be the focus of our studies.

surferdude

America may not have the best education system. But for those who really wantto learn it has a very good system.

America does offer the best environment for applying your education in innovative ways. So America tends to get the cream of the crop from other countries to do their best work.

mammasan

surferdude wrote:

America may not have the best education system. But for those who really wantto learn it has a very good system.

America does offer the best environment for applying your education in innovative ways. So America tends to get the cream of the crop from other countries to do their best work.

True but the problem is that we now have to start looking elsewhere to find the cream of the crop.

chopitdown

surferdude wrote:

America may not have the best education system. But for those who really wantto learn it has a very good system.

America does offer the best environment for applying your education in innovative ways. So America tends to get the cream of the crop from other countries to do their best work.

i agree if you're talking higher education.

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

I was having a talk last week with a couple of guys from a class I take. The conversation turned to our kids and education. To make a long story short two of the guys there have kids who have lived overseas, Japan and Kuwait to be specific. They where explaining how mcuh more advanced academically, specifically in the areas of math and science, the schools in those countries are compared to here. This brought on a question, have we as American been fed the line that America is so great and we are so powerfull that we have stopped trying to be the best and now just expect that we are the best. I happen to believe that we have lost our way. We now just assume that we are the best without actually working to be the best. I would like to hear what others think about this.

yea sadly I agree with this. not sure what can be done.

stuckinline

jlew24asu wrote:

yea sadly I agree with this. not sure what can be done.

have education focus more on learning, problem solving, etc and focus LESS on building self esteem.

surferdude

gluten919 wrote:

have education focus more on learning, problem solving, etc and focus LESS on building self esteem.

Schools do this when properly supported by parents. We ask schools to do too much. We have to demand a better level of involvement from parents. But I admit this idea is not going to go over too well in a world dominated by single parent families and dual income families.

hippiemom

We don't value learning. Go tell a bunch of people that you're a Harvard grad ... for every one that's impressed, there will be two that think you're an elitist snob. The images of success that we see in the media, whether it's entertainers, athletes, or now even the president, are not the smartest or best educated people. It's more important to be the guy folks want to barbeque with :rolleyes:

surferdude

hippiemom wrote:

It's more important to be the guy folks want to barbeque with :rolleyes:

I think this is true to a large extent. Most leading companies now hire for attitude knowing they can teach the skill. Most jobs require such a high level of teamwork and interaction with others that being the guy you want to barbeque with is extremely important. Most people spend more waking hours with their co-workers than their spouses and kids.

I know I'm successful at my profession not because I'm the best but rather because I'm a great listener, I'm passionate about what I do, I care about the company's success and in seeing those I work with be successful and I rank fairly high skill set wise but by no means in the top 5 percentile. People like to work with me and are willing to overlook the occassionally screw up rather than work with a perfect pain in the ass.

hippiemom

surferdude wrote:

I think this is true to a large extent. Most leading companies now hire for attitude knowing they can teach the skill. Most jobs require such a high level of teamwork and interaction with others that being the guy you want to barbeque with is extremely important. Most people spend more waking hours with their co-workers than their spouses and kids.

I know I'm successful at my profession not because I'm the best but rather because I'm a great listener, I'm passionate about what I do, I care about the company's success and in seeing those I work with be successful and I rank fairly high skill set wise but by no means in the top 5 percentile. People like to work with me and are willing to overlook the occassionally screw up rather than work with a perfect pain in the ass.

I certainly don't underestimate the value of people skills! Having worked with plenty of people who don't have them, I know how important they are. And obviously, most of us are never going to be in the top 5% of anything. What bothers me is the devaluation of those who are in that top tier. It's long been a problem in the black community, and it seems to be spreading to the community at large. There's nothing wrong with being a people person, we need them, but we need geeky geniuses too. Without them, we wouldn't even be having this conversation