Who did you vote for last presidential election? For Senate? For Congress?
I tend to vote Libertarian, but I was all over the board on the last election.
Why?
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
...
I heard some tools on Cable Television crying about drilling here in America to save us.
...
Does anyone really believe that the oil companies want Joe American to pay less than what Joe Rest-Of-The-World is willing to pay?
Guess who gets the oil that ExxonMobil pulls from American soil?
If you guessed, "The highest bidder"... give yourself a Gold Star.
What I find ridiculous about the people who support drilling in ANWAR is that the best estimate we have on the size of the oil reserve there is not even enough to feed our habit for one year. If this is the best solution our elected officials can come up with then we are truly in deep shit.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Yeah well most Americans won't raise a stink until their backs are against the wall. It's un-American! Only dirty hippies protest! As high as prices here, we really still have cheap oil compared to about 95% of the world. Even most poor countries in Latin America pay more for gas than we do. I think once it pushes over about $5 a gallon you will start to see some mass demonstrations. And of course those higher fuel prices will push up prices on just about everything else.
I have to agree with you but for a different reason. We will not do anything not because only stinky hippie protest but because we have become a nation that is reactive instead of proactive. One we where one of the most innovative nations on this planet but we kept swallowing the line that we where the greatest nation on earth till we become fat and lazy filled with this nationalistic bullshit and now we get to scratch our heads in wonder as many other nations surpass us on the world stage.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I'm in a bad situation personally because I have a 90 mile roundtrip commute to and from work AND to top things off, I drive a gas-guzzling Nissan 300ZX. I would like to buy a new car, but then that means I'd have a car note each month to worry about. I can't get a new job because the one I have now pays a nice salary and great benefits, but at the same time too large of a percentage of my monthly paycheck goes toward fuel. I do drive a lot slower now to save on fuel mileage.
I'm cutting back by not eating out anymore, I use far less electricity (I was pretty good at that as it was), and I just got rid of my Blackberry and downgraded to a cheap, basic cell phone. Times are tough indeed and they are only getting worse.
When is the last time gasoline dropped a penny at the pumps? Exactly, it's been so long that none of us can remember when that was.
United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
I'm in a bad situation personally because I have a 90 mile roundtrip commute to and from work AND to top things off, I drive a gas-guzzling Nissan 300ZX. I would like to buy a new car, but then that means I'd have a car note each month to worry about. I can't get a new job because the one I have now pays a nice salary and great benefits, but at the same time too large of a percentage of my monthly paycheck goes toward fuel. I do drive a lot slower now to save on fuel mileage.
I'm cutting back by not eating out anymore, I use far less electricity (I was pretty good at that as it was), and I just got rid of my Blackberry and downgraded to a cheap, basic cell phone. Times are tough indeed and they are only getting worse.
When is the last time gasoline dropped a penny at the pumps? Exactly, it's been so long that none of us can remember when that was.
can you try and move closer?
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
What I find ridiculous about the people who support drilling in ANWAR is that the best estimate we have on the size of the oil reserve there is not even enough to feed our habit for one year. If this is the best solution our elected officials can come up with then we are truly in deep shit.
That's our politicians... no long term vision except when setting budget or pollution goals that safely overshoot their political careers. It's too hard to fix problems in office with unpopular steps, but instead they offer short-term crap like drilling in ANWAR or gas tax holidays, just to get re-elected and to push the problem back a little while.
We may say....Remember when we used gasoline to power cars.
That is what boggles my mind... in 100 years we have built enormous skyscrapers, created computers that can do just about anything, went to the moon and are building a space station, but we haven't come up with a better way to power a car than an internal combustion engine???
And 30 years ago we went through all this crap with high oil prices and gasoline rationing... our government didn't do anything than, so I'm definitely not holding my breath this time around.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
What I find ridiculous about the people who support drilling in ANWAR is that the best estimate we have on the size of the oil reserve there is not even enough to feed our habit for one year. If this is the best solution our elected officials can come up with then we are truly in deep shit.
I don't personally think all of a sudden the beauty that is ANWAR will somehow be completely ruined by the presense of several drill rigs, but I totally don't understand the big push to drill there when Florida is a hell of a lot closer to the bulk of the fuel useage and it's not even being discussed in the media. What the hell makes the Alabama, Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi coasts different?
Old connected people live in Florida I guess. Other than that, it's an absolute joke no ones drilling on the Florida Gulf Coast. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to go all the way to ANWAR when Florida is simply choosing to not be part of the solution.
The worst part of this thing is that this has happened before in the late 70's it was a hell of a lot worse...and the Hummer and SUV craze came AFTER all that. 30 years ago would have been the perfect time to start researching and perfecting conservation and clean renewable energy efforts.... OOOPS.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
That is what boggles my mind... in 100 years we have built enormous skyscrapers, created computers that can do just about anything, went to the moon and are building a space station, but we haven't come up with a better way to power a car than an internal combustion engine???
And 30 years ago we went through all this crap with high oil prices and gasoline rationing... our government didn't do anything than, so I'm definitely not holding my breath this time around.
If there's money to be made by making cars with alternative fuel.......It will be done!
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Not every long. And that's when the prices will start dropping again ... when the supply begins to outstrip the demand.
I don't think the "laws" of supply and demand work with that particular ressource. I don't think the (approx.) 215% price raise in the last year is somewhat related to demand. Arguing that rising the supply will lower the prices is just a hopeful wish.
I don't think the "laws" of supply and demand work with that particular ressource. I don't think the (approx.) 215% price raise in the last year is somewhat related to demand. Arguing that rising the supply will lower the prices is just a hopeful wish.
I agree!
If anything the demand should be declining with the prices the way they are.
Like I said before.....
There is no solid explanation.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
If anything the demand should be declining with the prices the way they are.
Like I said before.....
There is no solid explanation.
...
The explanation is easy. The free ride is over.
For the longest time, the U.S. has had low gasoline prices, even though it was not an oil producer.
With China and India coming online... the market has changed. We are seeing our prices rise to the level of the rest of the world (even though gasoline in Europe and Japan are still much higher than ours... with the recent increases).
Welcome to the Global Economy... meet the new Middle Class... China and India.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
The explanation is easy. The free ride is over.
For the longest time, the U.S. has had low gasoline prices, even though it was not an oil producer.
With China and India coming online... the market has changed. We are seeing our prices rise to the level of the rest of the world (even though gasoline in Europe and Japan are still much higher than ours... with the recent increases).
Welcome to the Global Economy... meet the new Middle Class... China and India.
I think you're correct. However, its hard to buy that explanation when it happens in a matter of 6 months.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
The worst part of this thing is that this has happened before in the late 70's it was a hell of a lot worse...and the Hummer and SUV craze came AFTER all that. 30 years ago would have been the perfect time to start researching and perfecting conservation and clean renewable energy efforts.... OOOPS.
Well that is because the US, as I said before, is reactive instead of proactive. We where able to put a man in space in 3 years and a man on the moon in 10 but in 30+ years we have not been able to ween ourselves off of oil.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Once our economy goes into the tank, the world economy will follow close behind. Many Americans will lose their disposable incomes to buy luxury products that are mainly imported from other countries.
When we don't buy as much stuff from those other countries their economies will suffer as well.
Well that is because the US, as I said before, is reactive instead of proactive. We where able to put a man in space in 3 years and a man on the moon in 10 but in 30+ years we have not been able to ween ourselves off of oil.
I think it has something to do with the fact that consumers wanted big fast car and trucks. In order to do this they have to run on gasoline.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
I think you're correct. However, its hard to buy that explanation when it happens in a matter of 6 months.
...
Why should they 'ease' us into higher prices? What loyalty do the people in the oil industry owe us? The people at the oil companies don't care about us... neither to the people at the oil producing companies. And if you think that the govenrment cares... they don't.
...
Think about it this way... you own an apartment building and you have these tenents. One of them is paying 300 a month while the others are paying 800 a month. Here come these Chinese renters that are willing to pay 1,000 a month.
Do you raise the 300 a month to meet the rents the others are paying? Or let him continue to pay only 300 a month?
As the landlord in this case... the oil companies don't give a fuck about us. They want money. It's all about the free market.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Why should they 'ease' us into higher prices? What loyalty do the people in the oil industry owe us? The people at the oil companies don't care about us... neither to the people at the oil producing companies. And if you think that the govenrment cares... they don't.
...
Think about it this way... you own an apartment building and you have these tenents. One of them is paying 300 a month while the others are paying 800 a month. Here come these Chinese renters that are willing to pay 1,000 a month.
Do you raise the 300 a month to meet the rents the others are paying? Or let him continue to pay only 300 a month?
As the landlord in this case... the oil companies don't give a fuck about us. They want money. It's all about the free market.
I fully understand.....
I just think its a fucked situation.
They are using free markets to their advantage, but the free market works both ways. When we develop technology to use less gas they will get a taste of their own medicine.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
I think it has something to do with the fact that consumers wanted big fast car and trucks. In order to do this they have to run on gasoline.
Consumers want what is out on the market. If you only produce energy efficient vehicles then consumers will only want energy efficient vehicles.
We knew back in the 1970 that our dependency on oil was going to come back and bite us in the ass. Not only that but we knew that dependency on foreign oil, specifically the Middle East, was going to be problematic down the road. Still our government and the energy and auto industry sat on their asses and did nothing. It took this country 10 years to put a human being on the moon, no small feet. So why is it that in 30+ years we have been unable to solve our energy problem. We are still reliant on oil to an unhealthy level and we are still dependent on nations like Saudi Arabia for our oil, both of which are huge problems that we never bothered to address because energy corporations where making money quicker than they could count it and the politicians where not about to upset their gravy train. Well now we find ourselves practically fucked because oil is rising at about $1 per gallon every couple of months with no end in sight and no alternative either.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
They are using free markets to their advantage, but the free market works both ways. When we develop technology to use less gas they will get a taste of their own medicine.
...
Yeah... it's fucked. Someone is getting rich... and it ain't me.
...
And as long as they hold the strings in our political system... nothing will change.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Yeah... it's fucked. Someone is getting rich... and it ain't me.
...
And as long as they hold the strings in our political system... nothing will change.
Buy some fucking Exxon shares if you want a piece.
To say Americans have been having a free ride on oil prices is an understatement- compared to other countries your prices remain amongst the lowest but you have largely resisted measures to use hydrocarbons more efficiently, identify new reserves or alternative fuels. Europeans have been driving smaller cars for decades but demand for SUVs in the states is just increasing. The US it seems has only begun to realise the value of the energy resource squandered daily when it started to hurt American back pockets.
This situation will easily get worse, and its fair to say that speculation has contributed significantly to price increases. Still the fact remains, oil is currently undervalued both economically and culturally.
I don't know if this has been said, my moneys on roland, but i think it is fucking hilarious that we liberated the oil.... and the price has doubled, tripled, whatever! really genuinelly funny. This is the thanks your unwavering support gets you, enjoy!!
On a revolutionary note, for those of us that live where the rain falls free and easy, they can't control the food and water supply as they would like to, bear that in mind.
I don't know if this has been said, my moneys on roland, but i think it is fucking hilarious that we liberated the oil.... and the price has doubled, tripled, whatever! really genuinelly funny. This is the thanks your unwavering support gets you, enjoy!!
On a revolutionary note, for those of us that live where the rain falls free and easy, they can't control the food and water supply as they would like to, bear that in mind.
Destabilizing the region did nothing but raise the price (speculation). Currently the mortgage crisis and the consequent existance of the FED here in the US which essentially means our money is based on BS.... is the current reason for the cost rise... our paper money is essentially worthless due to some really stupid investments by really powerful investment conglomerates. But hey... a couple people got rich anyway.
Basically encouraging companies to give loans to people with historically bad credit so they could buy a house... is kind of the root of the dollar crisis... which is driving the oil price up... and then there are the lovely corn belt floods in the bread basket that are futher excerbating the problem.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
Hundreds of billion spent on war factors in. Which has the higher price tag?
The fed is printing tons of fake money for this as well.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Buy some fucking Exxon shares if you want a piece.
.
...
Well, in order to have made money in ExxonMobil stock... shouldn't I have gotten into it in 2004... when it was trading for about 40 bucks a share... instead of the 85 to 90 it is trading for today?
Are you guaranteeing if I buy ExxonMobil today... I will become wealthy, too?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
I tend to vote Libertarian, but I was all over the board on the last election.
Why?
What I find ridiculous about the people who support drilling in ANWAR is that the best estimate we have on the size of the oil reserve there is not even enough to feed our habit for one year. If this is the best solution our elected officials can come up with then we are truly in deep shit.
I have to agree with you but for a different reason. We will not do anything not because only stinky hippie protest but because we have become a nation that is reactive instead of proactive. One we where one of the most innovative nations on this planet but we kept swallowing the line that we where the greatest nation on earth till we become fat and lazy filled with this nationalistic bullshit and now we get to scratch our heads in wonder as many other nations surpass us on the world stage.
you mentioned "Do I have a realistic shot at changing the way Exxon uses the free market?"
The answer is yes. If not through voting then through popular protest or striking. We can do something about it.
I'm cutting back by not eating out anymore, I use far less electricity (I was pretty good at that as it was), and I just got rid of my Blackberry and downgraded to a cheap, basic cell phone. Times are tough indeed and they are only getting worse.
When is the last time gasoline dropped a penny at the pumps? Exactly, it's been so long that none of us can remember when that was.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html
Groovy! I might try this tomorrow morning.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
can you try and move closer?
I actually meant to put that in my first post. I probably will end up moving by the fall.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
That's our politicians... no long term vision except when setting budget or pollution goals that safely overshoot their political careers. It's too hard to fix problems in office with unpopular steps, but instead they offer short-term crap like drilling in ANWAR or gas tax holidays, just to get re-elected and to push the problem back a little while.
That is what boggles my mind... in 100 years we have built enormous skyscrapers, created computers that can do just about anything, went to the moon and are building a space station, but we haven't come up with a better way to power a car than an internal combustion engine???
And 30 years ago we went through all this crap with high oil prices and gasoline rationing... our government didn't do anything than, so I'm definitely not holding my breath this time around.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I don't personally think all of a sudden the beauty that is ANWAR will somehow be completely ruined by the presense of several drill rigs, but I totally don't understand the big push to drill there when Florida is a hell of a lot closer to the bulk of the fuel useage and it's not even being discussed in the media. What the hell makes the Alabama, Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi coasts different?
Old connected people live in Florida I guess. Other than that, it's an absolute joke no ones drilling on the Florida Gulf Coast. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to go all the way to ANWAR when Florida is simply choosing to not be part of the solution.
The worst part of this thing is that this has happened before in the late 70's it was a hell of a lot worse...and the Hummer and SUV craze came AFTER all that. 30 years ago would have been the perfect time to start researching and perfecting conservation and clean renewable energy efforts.... OOOPS.
If there's money to be made by making cars with alternative fuel.......It will be done!
I agree!
If anything the demand should be declining with the prices the way they are.
Like I said before.....
There is no solid explanation.
The explanation is easy. The free ride is over.
For the longest time, the U.S. has had low gasoline prices, even though it was not an oil producer.
With China and India coming online... the market has changed. We are seeing our prices rise to the level of the rest of the world (even though gasoline in Europe and Japan are still much higher than ours... with the recent increases).
Welcome to the Global Economy... meet the new Middle Class... China and India.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think you're correct. However, its hard to buy that explanation when it happens in a matter of 6 months.
Well that is because the US, as I said before, is reactive instead of proactive. We where able to put a man in space in 3 years and a man on the moon in 10 but in 30+ years we have not been able to ween ourselves off of oil.
When we don't buy as much stuff from those other countries their economies will suffer as well.
I think it has something to do with the fact that consumers wanted big fast car and trucks. In order to do this they have to run on gasoline.
Why should they 'ease' us into higher prices? What loyalty do the people in the oil industry owe us? The people at the oil companies don't care about us... neither to the people at the oil producing companies. And if you think that the govenrment cares... they don't.
...
Think about it this way... you own an apartment building and you have these tenents. One of them is paying 300 a month while the others are paying 800 a month. Here come these Chinese renters that are willing to pay 1,000 a month.
Do you raise the 300 a month to meet the rents the others are paying? Or let him continue to pay only 300 a month?
As the landlord in this case... the oil companies don't give a fuck about us. They want money. It's all about the free market.
Hail, Hail!!!
I fully understand.....
I just think its a fucked situation.
They are using free markets to their advantage, but the free market works both ways. When we develop technology to use less gas they will get a taste of their own medicine.
Consumers want what is out on the market. If you only produce energy efficient vehicles then consumers will only want energy efficient vehicles.
We knew back in the 1970 that our dependency on oil was going to come back and bite us in the ass. Not only that but we knew that dependency on foreign oil, specifically the Middle East, was going to be problematic down the road. Still our government and the energy and auto industry sat on their asses and did nothing. It took this country 10 years to put a human being on the moon, no small feet. So why is it that in 30+ years we have been unable to solve our energy problem. We are still reliant on oil to an unhealthy level and we are still dependent on nations like Saudi Arabia for our oil, both of which are huge problems that we never bothered to address because energy corporations where making money quicker than they could count it and the politicians where not about to upset their gravy train. Well now we find ourselves practically fucked because oil is rising at about $1 per gallon every couple of months with no end in sight and no alternative either.
Yeah... it's fucked. Someone is getting rich... and it ain't me.
...
And as long as they hold the strings in our political system... nothing will change.
Hail, Hail!!!
More like 5 years. Maybe you've only been paying attention for 6 months.
Buy some fucking Exxon shares if you want a piece.
To say Americans have been having a free ride on oil prices is an understatement- compared to other countries your prices remain amongst the lowest but you have largely resisted measures to use hydrocarbons more efficiently, identify new reserves or alternative fuels. Europeans have been driving smaller cars for decades but demand for SUVs in the states is just increasing. The US it seems has only begun to realise the value of the energy resource squandered daily when it started to hurt American back pockets.
This situation will easily get worse, and its fair to say that speculation has contributed significantly to price increases. Still the fact remains, oil is currently undervalued both economically and culturally.
On a revolutionary note, for those of us that live where the rain falls free and easy, they can't control the food and water supply as they would like to, bear that in mind.
Destabilizing the region did nothing but raise the price (speculation). Currently the mortgage crisis and the consequent existance of the FED here in the US which essentially means our money is based on BS.... is the current reason for the cost rise... our paper money is essentially worthless due to some really stupid investments by really powerful investment conglomerates. But hey... a couple people got rich anyway.
Basically encouraging companies to give loans to people with historically bad credit so they could buy a house... is kind of the root of the dollar crisis... which is driving the oil price up... and then there are the lovely corn belt floods in the bread basket that are futher excerbating the problem.
The fed is printing tons of fake money for this as well.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Well, in order to have made money in ExxonMobil stock... shouldn't I have gotten into it in 2004... when it was trading for about 40 bucks a share... instead of the 85 to 90 it is trading for today?
Are you guaranteeing if I buy ExxonMobil today... I will become wealthy, too?
Hail, Hail!!!