Barney Frank: "We need to increase spending"

acoustic guy

digster wrote:

Run! The Socialists are coming!! Aaaahhhhh!!!!!!

Its sad that you dont realize that its true.

digster

acoustic guy wrote:

Its sad that you dont realize that its true.

It's inflammatory and ridiculous. It's like screaming that the fascists are coming every time a Republican president and Congress is elected.

digster

And prytoj, my eyes hurt way too much to squint all of that out right now, so there could be significant points to be made, but you're claiming the Tax Foundation to be an "independent observer" on the facts? I don't know if you could find a more ideologically-biased analyst of economics in this country. It's like calling Paul Krugman a "non-partisan" economist.

jimed14

acoustic guy wrote:

Its sad that you dont realize that its true.

Socialism, democratic socialism, is already here people ...

Did you not see what happened with the banks over the past month?

Hello? SOCIAL security .... Medicaid ...

But we are not talking about the government controlling the production of industry socialism ...


Man, I cannot beleive anyone would believe in a progressive tax ... unreal ...

even THIS guy beleives in a progressive tax!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvtq4UYNIE

Wait ... was that ... aahhhh yes, it WAS John MCCain

digster

God, politicians must HATE youtube with a passion.

blackredyellow

prytoj wrote:

Part 1
Remember the election in 2006? Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over one year ago:

1.) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2.) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3.) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1.) Consumer confidence plummet;
2.) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.10 a gallon;
3.) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4.) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses)
5.) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6.) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
7.) Food prices skyrocketing over 30% in 1 year.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember, it is Congress that makes the laws and spends our money -not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp

prytoj wrote:

Part 2:
Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.HTML

Taxes under CLINTON-1999 Taxes under BUSH-2008
Single earning: Single earning:
30K - taxed- $ 8,400 30K - taxed $ 4,500
50K - taxed $ 14,000 50K - taxed $ 12,500
75K - taxed $ 23,250 75K - taxed $ 18,750
Married earning: Married earning:
60K - taxed $ 16,800 60K - taxed $ 9,000
75K - taxed $ 21,000 75K - taxed $ 18,750
125K - taxed $ 38,750 125K - taxed $ 31,250

Barack Obama promises to return to the higher tax rates if elected. It is amazing how many people who fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.

If elected, Barack Obama has already promised that he will repeal the Bush tax cuts, and amazingly, a good portion of the people who fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/clinton-bush.asp

prytoj wrote:

PART 3:
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?& nbsp; Read this: Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. Read on...

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://wwwcis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.HTML

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babi es.
Verify at: http://transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $2 00 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pou nds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl..com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Cr imes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.'
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml


The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

You're voting for McCain, right? I'm a bit surprised that you'd bring up illegal immigration with him being such a cheerleader for amnesty (God I hate that term - I actually agree with McCain's immigration policy before he started running for president).

And you might want to check your source links from your chain e-mail. Some don't work, one is a link to a site that just shows this same list, and the CNN one's that do work are from Lou Dobbs transcripts.

inmytree

pjalive21 wrote:

what was his take on it?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95929699

Fresh Air from WHYY, October 21, 2008 · Nobel laureate Paul Krugman believes that increased public spending — akin to the efforts of the New Deal during the Great Depression — is the best way to escape the financial crisis and regain American global leadership.

In his Oct. 16 column in The New York Times, Krugman writes, "It's politically fashionable to rant against government spending and demand fiscal responsibility. But right now, increased government spending is just what the doctor ordered, and concerns about the budget deficit should be put on hold."

Paul Krugman is a professor of economics and international affairs at Princeton University, and the recipient of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Economics. He has been an op-ed columnist for The New York Times since 1999. His most recent books are The Conscience of a Liberal and The Great Unraveling: Losing Our Way in the New Century.

jimed14

digster wrote:

God, politicians must HATE youtube with a passion.

especially ones with 26 year congressional careers ...

but, yeah ... I mean NOTHING they say is off limits ... not to mention the spinning ... everything is parced and cut to make someone's point

I'm the first one to admit the McCain "100 years in Iraq" comment was taken way out of proportion.

prytoj

yeah, obviously this works both ways. I think we all know the term "democratic congress" should be taken with a grain of salt.

thanks for pointing that out.

pjalive21

inmytree wrote:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95929699

Fresh Air from WHYY, October 21, 2008 · Nobel laureate Paul Krugman believes that increased public spending — akin to the efforts of the New Deal during the Great Depression — is the best way to escape the financial crisis and regain American global leadership.

In his Oct. 16 column in The New York Times, Krugman writes, "It's politically fashionable to rant against government spending and demand fiscal responsibility. But right now, increased government spending is just what the doctor ordered, and concerns about the budget deficit should be put on hold."

Paul Krugman is a professor of economics and international affairs at Princeton University, and the recipient of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Economics. He has been an op-ed columnist for The New York Times since 1999. His most recent books are The Conscience of a Liberal and The Great Unraveling: Losing Our Way in the New Century.

he obviously has a focused education on economics but i dont see how increased spending will help the economy...that means we would have to print more money causing even greater inflation and decreased value of the dollar?

maybe im wrong

slightofjeff

Hey, no worries ... Barney also says they'll have to raise taxes on everybody. So it's all good.

Seriously ... I don't care if you consider yourself "middle class" ... if you don't think you pay more in taxes during an Obama/Pelosi/Reid administration, you're fucking deluding yourself.

It's like we're headed toward a financial ravine in a car with three accelerators and no brakes. Good times.

Kann

slightofjeff wrote:

It's like we're headed toward a financial ravine in a car with three accelerators and no brakes. Good times.

This is something I absolutely do not understand. Your country is currently spending 10 billion $/month in the war effort, your country is witnessing the biggest financial meltdown in a long long time, your country's taxing policy is so full of potholes a balanced budget today is at best a science fiction book and yet you "are headed toward a financial ravine"? Explain to me how you believe you actually have not already lept the edge of the ravine?

Whatever the candidate that is chosen you have to hope he knows how to balance a budget (spend big then tax more, spend small tax less), because otherwise your car will have trouble landing.

pjalive21

Kann wrote:

Whatever the candidate that is chosen you have to hope he knows how to balance a budget (spend big then tax more, spend small tax less), because otherwise your car will have trouble landing.

Obama is not that person unless he gets Mitt Romney to switch parties

and we are at that ravine for sure, but with an additional 1 trillion in planned spending by Obamanation its only going to get worse, not that McCain has the above all be all answer either

slightofjeff

Kann wrote:

This is something I absolutely do not understand. Your country is currently spending 10 billion $/month in the war effort, your country is witnessing the biggest financial meltdown in a long long time, your country's taxing policy is so full of potholes a balanced budget today is at best a science fiction book and yet you "are headed toward a financial ravine"? Explain to me how you believe you actually have not already lept the edge of the ravine?

Because it can get much, much worse.

We aren't in a Depression. In the strictest economic sense of the word, we aren't even in a recession yet. I don't think the majority of Americans have even *felt* this so-called crisis in their daily lives (I know I haven't, really, except for a sagging 401K Barack wants to tax the shit of ... seriously, look it up).

But we're headed that way. It might be too late to hit the brakes without skidding over the edge ... but it's better than just jamming down the accelerator, Thelma-and-Louise style.

inmytree

pjalive21 wrote:

he obviously has a focused education on economics but i dont see how increased spending will help the economy...that means we would have to print more money causing even greater inflation and decreased value of the dollar?

maybe im wrong

hmmm....

Nobel laureate Paul Krugman vs. pjalive21 on the economy...

tough choice...;)

Kann

slightofjeff wrote:

But we're headed that way. It might be too late to hit the brakes without skidding over the edge ... but it's better than just jamming down the accelerator, Thelma-and-Louise style.

I didn't bother to read both programs but from what I gathered I understood Obama's plan was : "no more tax cuts so we can implement social policies" while McCain's plan was : "status quo". The first one seemed less dangerous in my point of view, but I may be mistaken. (Please be aware that intelligent social policies can have massive positive consequences on the economy).

pjalive21

inmytree wrote:

hmmm....

Nobel laureate Paul Krugman vs. pjalive21 on the economy...

tough choice...;)

haha

i did take micro and macro economics