Catch-22

harrymanbackharrymanback Posts: 435
edited August 2008 in A Moving Train
Anybody else stuck in a catch-22 with the upcoming election.

I cannot deal with another 4 years of a rebublican in office, nevertheless one who has no idea how many homes he has, but obama with his lack of experience and his message "change" does nothing for me (and will very likely hurt me in the wallet). Where is Monty Brewster when you need him?
I don't want to be hostile. I don't want to be dismal. But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    I hear ya. I think Obama's tax policies will kill our economy, while McCain's age is catching up to him. I dont know what to do.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Just don't vote for either of them. Granted a third party candidate is not going to win but if enough people vote third party maybe the Reps and Dems in DC will get the message that their monopoly over the federal government is not as secure as they may have thought. Our candidate doesn't have to win he/she just needs enough votes to send a message.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    I hear ya. I think Obama's tax policies will kill our economy, while McCain's age is catching up to him. I dont know what to do.
    What tax policy do you recommend since Obama's will kill your economy and Bush's nearly killed your economy as well?
  • yokeyoke Posts: 1,440
    Where is Monty Brewster when you need him?



    haha, that was on yesterday..
    Thats a lovely accent you have. New Jersey?

    www.seanbrady.net
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    What tax policy do you recommend since Obama's will kill your economy and Bush's nearly killed your economy as well?

    it wasnt bush's tax policy that hurt the economy.

    obama is going to raise taxes and spend. I recommend the opposite of that.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    it wasnt bush's tax policy that hurt the economy.

    obama is going to raise taxes and spend. I recommend the opposite of that.

    No offense but McCain will either cut taxes, or leave them where they are, and spend. Both policies will continue to damage our economy.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    No offense but McCain will either cut taxes, or leave them where they are, and spend. Both policies will continue to damage our economy.

    no offense taken. I dont care too much for mccain's policies either. but he wont raise taxes and has promised to cut spending. but no way will he cut enough. both candidates will increase the debt. its a matter of how will be worse. which really really sucks
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    it wasnt bush's tax policy that hurt the economy.

    obama is going to raise taxes and spend. I recommend the opposite of that.
    Actually I think raising taxes before spending is a smarter move (for the countries finances of course, not for your wallet) than lowering taxes before spending, like W did. But anyways, what do you think would happen if you lowered taxes and stopped spending?
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    Actually I think raising taxes before spending is a much smarter move than lowering taxes before spending, like W did.

    I agree. I hope mccain doesnt do that
    Kann wrote:
    But anyways, what do you think would happen if you lowered taxes and stopped spending?

    american's would keep more of their own money, spend more, companies would have more money to invest in their business and hire people.

    stopped spending? well we will never stop spending. u mean lower spending? that would be great. lower the debt and keep interest rates in check
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    I agree. I hope mccain doesnt do that



    american's would keep more of their own money, spend more, companies would have more money to invest in their business and hire people.

    stopped spending? well we will never stop spending. u mean lower spending? that would be great. lower the debt and keep interest rates in check

    Yes if McCain lower taxes we would keep more of our money in our pockets, but by not cutting spending that money we get to keep will be worth less because the Federal Reserve will have to print more money to cover the difference.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    Yes if McCain lower taxes we would keep more of our money in our pockets, but by not cutting spending that money we get to keep will be worth less because the Federal Reserve will have to print more money to cover the difference.

    he has promised to cut spending. will it be enough? no. will he even do that? I dont know, I hope so.

    obama, however, has promised to raise spending.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    spyguy wrote:
    it wasnt bush's tax policy that hurt the economy.

    obama is going to raise taxes and spend. I recommend the opposite of that.

    Well i totally agree that bush's way of doing things is much better. How much debt does the US have?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Is this really a catch-22?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • why does the phrase "raising taxes" strike such fear?

    many taxes go to assist those less fortunate. From what I've read Democrat tax plans won't affect the lower 2/3 income workers in this country.

    Shouldn't it be about helping those struggling to make a living here at home? What about those of us destroyed by this war economy. We've lost the equity we've had in our homes due to the greed of those taking windfalls willy nilly with little taxation? A lot of us have lost our life savings the past 8 years.
    the Minions
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    spiral out wrote:
    Well i totally agree that bush's way of doing things is much better. How much debt does the US have?

    who said anything about Bush being better. you do realize he is not running for re-election right?
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    why does the phrase "raising taxes" strike such fear?

    it doesnt strike fewar, it strikes anger.
    many taxes go to assist those less fortunate.

    socialism doesnt work
    From what I've read Democrat tax plans won't affect the lower 2/3 income workers in this country.

    you should take a closer look.
    Shouldn't it be about helping those struggling to make a living here at home? What about those of us destroyed by this war economy. We've lost the equity we've had in our homes due to the greed of those taking windfalls willy nilly with little taxation? A lot of us have lost our life savings the past 8 years.

    and you think raising taxes will help?
  • Collin wrote:
    Is this really a catch-22?


    Catch-22 is simply a no win situation -- and i think in my case (like the movie) there is circular logic as i want the pres to not be a rebulican, but the one who speaks about change has no experience, but the one with experience does not know where he is when he lands, so i go with the other option, but he will hurt my wallet, so i go with the rebublican, and we start all over again.

    as for not voting for either of them, i am in jersey, so that is an option since my vote is practically meaningless.
    I don't want to be hostile. I don't want to be dismal. But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    spyguy wrote:
    who said anything about Bush being better. you do realize he is not running for re-election right?

    The republicans will continue there stupidity. But go ahead and think Mr magoo will be different.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    spiral out wrote:
    The republicans will continue there stupidity. But go ahead and think Mr magoo will be different.

    :rolleyes: you probably havnt been paying attention to the election. an open mind is a good thing my son.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    spyguy wrote:
    :rolleyes: you probably havnt been paying attention to the election. an open mind is a good thing my son.

    Oh i had fun watching the coverage while i was there. Only a fool takes everything they tell you in an election campaign to heart.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    spyguy wrote:
    he has promised to cut spending. will it be enough? no. will he even do that? I dont know, I hope so.

    obama, however, has promised to raise spending.


    I hear ya...it's a tough decision.

    I'm not sure why people find it so hard to understand that cutting spending should come first...not raising taxes.

    If you don't have enough $ at the end of the month, do you reduce your spending, or do you go and take more money from your boss?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • spyguy wrote:
    it doesnt strike fewar, it strikes anger.



    socialism doesnt work



    you should take a closer look.



    and you think raising taxes will help?

    Tax stimulus checks and gas tax holidays don't help either.

    We can't all own oil and utility companies, or sell pharmaceuticals or peddle necessities at extreme profits. Looks like capitalism isn't working either. I've been offered to transfer my farm to a conglomerate, which has become quite the trend here lately. So in actuallity the current economy is socializing the American farmer. I can't afford gas so I have to make do with growing crops, rising costs and less $ because I can't compete with the mega farms. It's kinda like when Wal-Mart moves into your neighborhood and fucks the local economy.

    Then you apply for assistance... What a joke!!! The futures market kills us and the banks want 10+% on your next 30 years.


    I guess we could sell our 100+ years of lifestyle out to the mega farms for 1/3 the value. We can stay in our home and still work our land. But then we'd have to still pay rent on a floating agreement. But hey at least we don't have to pay for diesel...

    Yeah, the current situation works great for me... Let's keep it!!!!
    the Minions
  • the bottom line is...
    If someone makes $1,000,000 they can afford to pay more taxes, and should.

    People that make $25,000 are poor, and still pay taxes...
    a little more at the bottom and a little less at the top is a better situation for everyone...

    and it doesn't hurt the economy...
    the Minions
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    the bottom line is...
    If someone makes $1,000,000 they can afford to pay more taxes, and should.

    People that make $25,000 are poor, and still pay taxes...
    a little more at the bottom and a little less at the top is a better situation for everyone...

    and it doesn't hurt the economy...

    wow. they should??? why? - if anything please tell me WHY.


    look at it this way, that person who makes a million a year mostly likely owns his/her own business. would you rather raise that persons taxes or allow that person to invest his own money back into his business and hire more people.
  • spyguy wrote:
    wow. they should??? why? - if anything please tell me WHY.


    look at it this way, that person who makes a million a year mostly likely owns his/her own business. would you rather raise that persons taxes or allow that person to invest his own money back into his business and hire more people.

    No way.... those business owners are going to spend $25,000 to put a marble floor in their bathroom or buy a house on the lake way before they consider putting their profits back into their business or hiring more people...
    the Minions
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    No way.... those business owners are going to spend $25,000 to put a marble floor in their bathroom or buy a house on the lake way before they consider putting their profits back into their business or hiring more people...

    thats simply not true. do you have prove to back this up? of course not. but you didnt answer my question. why should they pay more?
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    I hear ya...it's a tough decision.

    I'm not sure why people find it so hard to understand that cutting spending should come first...not raising taxes.

    If you don't have enough $ at the end of the month, do you reduce your spending, or do you go and take more money from your boss?

    #1 spending is defitely on "defense" ... will a republican ever cut spending in that department? ... so, in all likelihood - mccain will cut spending on things like education or health care or something of that nature ...

    is that a good thing overall for the country?
  • spyguy wrote:
    thats simply not true. do you have prove to back this up? of course not. but you didnt answer my question. why should they pay more?

    Yeah, I'm a business owner myself, most of my friends and aquaintences as well as family are all business owners... Farms, real esate, insurance, hotels etc.

    We're all looking back at the gravy years wishing we'd have done a little more for our business.. If I had the $60000 I used 6 years ago to dig an inground swimming pool that we hardly use things might have been different...

    So back to your tax question...

    I'm a small farmer, that means I still have to have a million dollars a year to keep the farm going... Very hard to do when I'm taxed the same as corporate farm X who can out produce me 100 to 1 in my area... Therefore they can undercut me on everything at market... If I paid less taxes I could make it... If they paid more then possibly they couldn't continue to grow exponentially yearly and continue to squeeze me out...

    I'm trying to do everything right... I only hire on local hands, never migrant workers.... This is aseperate issue but it ass rapes me as well...

    What's your solution...? I'd like to hear it.
    the Minions
  • spyguyspyguy Posts: 613
    Yeah, I'm a business owner myself, most of my friends and aquaintences as well as family are all business owners... Farms, real esate, insurance, hotels etc.

    We're all looking back at the gravy years wishing we'd have done a little more for our business.. If I had the $60000 I used 6 years ago to dig an inground swimming pool that we hardly use things might have been different...

    So back to your tax question...

    I'm a small farmer, that means I still have to have a million dollars a year to keep the farm going... Very hard to do when I'm taxed the same as corporate farm X who can out produce me 100 to 1 in my area... Therefore they can undercut me on everything at market... If I paid less taxes I could make it... If they paid more then possibly they couldn't continue to grow exponentially yearly and continue to squeeze me out...

    I'm trying to do everything right... I only hire on local hands, never migrant workers.... This is aseperate issue but it ass rapes me as well...

    What's your solution...? I'd like to hear it.

    I'm confused. you make a million a year? if you paid less taxes u could make it? so why are u ok with higher taxes?
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    nope.
    for the first time in a long time, i am hopeful.
    a-ok many don't see it the same, i just hope that hope wins out.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


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