Half of U.S. still believes Iraq had WMD

inmytree

do you guys and gals remember the movie "Miracle on 34th Street"...? the little girl keep saying "I believe, I believe"...in hopes Santa would grant her wish...and in the end, Santa did...

only in this current story...those chanting "I believe, I believe" are waiting for Santa to bring real proof saddam had WMD's....

Bu$chlager

Truthmonger wrote:

Actually, here's the full version of that thread, with working links.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=152288

I read through most of the article. It's a pretty good presentation, I have to say. I guess I just have a really hard time bringing the hammer down on someone unless I am 100% certain. The article clearly states that it doesn't think the Pesident and his team were "conciously lying" to get their way, just that when looking back on the pre-war intelligence they may have aggressively done some selective fact-finding.

This doesn't mean they are right, mind you. It's one side of the coin. I don't think I can make the extreme statements that the far left makes, based on these claims. They go too far, IMO.

- Dan

boxwine_in_hell

Half of America is retarded.

Truthmonger

BUSH-lager wrote:

I read through most of the article. It's a pretty good presentation, I have to say. I guess I just have a really hard time bringing the hammer down on someone unless I am 100% certain. The article clearly states that it doesn't think the Pesident and his team were "conciously lying" to get their way, just that when looking back on the pre-war intelligence they may have aggressively done some selective fact-finding.

This doesn't mean they are right, mind you. It's one side of the coin. I don't think I can make the extreme statements that the far left makes, based on these claims. They go too far, IMO.

- Dan

You say that you read "the article" (singular form). But the thread I posted deals with NUMEROUS articles, many of which go much further than the innocuous summation of the one to which you refer. What's stunning here is not only the charges being dropped by these people, but the sheer number of individuals who have come forward and made such claims about the Bush administrations' level of honesty, or lack thereof. The fact of the matter, is that at the very least, there was a mountain of evidence contradicting Bush's claims that was either conveniently ignored or purposely undermined. A number of people, most or all of whom seem to be very intelligent, reasonable, informed and reputable, go much further. And these people are not all from the left politically.

Jeanwah

I didn't read the full article, but I bet all the believers watch FOX news. Fox comes across as sending forth that message that there are still WMDs. It's no secret that Fox makes up the "news".

chopitdown

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

Half of America is retarded.

it was actually more like 48.3% that thought kerry would win, but i'll accept you rounding up to 50%

Bu$chlager

Truthmonger wrote:

You say that you read "the article" (singular form). But the thread I posted deals with NUMEROUS articles, many of which go much further than the innocuous summation of the one to which you refer. What's stunning here is not only the charges being dropped by these people, but the sheer number of individuals who have come forward and made such claims about the Bush administrations' level of honesty, or lack thereof. The fact of the matter, is that at the very least, there was a mountain of evidence contradicting Bush's claims that was either conveniently ignored or purposely undermined. A number of people, most or all of whom seem to be very intelligent, reasonable, informed and reputable, go much further. And these people are not all from the left politically.

Well, I couldn't read them all right now, sorry. I read the main one.

For what you claim to be a "mountain" of evidence ignored, there are 10 mountains of legitimate truths to the reasons given for war. Bush & Co. gave the people, the UN, its allies, the world, etc. a million and one reasons why they had WMD's. Are they all lies??

So why haven't we seen impeachment proceedings? Clinton was impeached because he lied to the country. If what you and all these other smart people from both sides of the aisle say is true, why is Bush remaining unscathed? It can't be because the GOP has both houses, because plenty of right wing people think Bush is a liar and a murderer too, right?

Okay, maybe you will say it is because of party interests, and that is why. But what are you going to tell me after November? If the Dem's are controlling at least one house of Congress, will we see it then?

I personally don't think so. And if they dare to try, I will bet you they fall on their faces.

- Dan

callen

BUSH-lager wrote:

I love how no one here has any idea of the actual truth, yet those who think they may have had them are the idiots.

Oh how I long to be an enlightened elitist just like you all one day.

- Dan

Just say uncle and resume your life...you don't win them all.

callen

BUSH-lager wrote:

Well, I couldn't read them all right now, sorry. I read the main one.


For what you claim to be a "mountain" of evidence ignored, there are 10 mountains of legitimate truths to the reasons given for war. Bush & Co. gave the people, the UN, its allies, the world, etc. a million and one reasons why they had WMD's. Are they all lies??

So why haven't we seen impeachment proceedings? Clinton was impeached because he lied to the country. If what you and all these other smart people from both sides of the aisle say is true, why is Bush remaining unscathed? It can't be because the GOP has both houses, because plenty of right wing people think Bush is a liar and a murderer too, right?

Okay, maybe you will say it is because of party interests, and that is why. But what are you going to tell me after November? If the Dem's are controlling at least one house of Congress, will we see it then?

I personally don't think so. And if they dare to try, I will bet you they fall on their faces.

- Dan

He should be impeached....and a few members of his administration should be sent to Jail (not georgy though....he meant to do the right thing) ....unfortunately..right now Rep. control the House and Senate...and 1/2 the Americans will/and have been told that if you go against the President....then your against the troops and therefore unpatriotic.
I always knew history would prove to those that voted for Bush twice that they made a huge freakin mistake....I just couldn't beleive it would be while the douche is still in Office...this is such a sweet time for some of us. I do also relize in defense of those that did vote for him...the Dems didn't offer much more. But though a little. (-:

Peace

Callen

Uncle Leo

I believe they had WMDs. That does not mean the war was appropriate.

What I really want to see is a pole of how many people belive Saddam was involved in 9-11. I bet it's at least 40%.

Bu$chlager

callen wrote:

He should be impeached....and a few members of his administration should be sent to Jail (not georgy though....he meant to do the right thing) ....

...this is such a sweet time for some of us.
Peace

Callen

This is EXACTLY the kinda thing I'm talking about...

- Dan

Bu$chlager

Uncle Leo wrote:

I believe they had WMDs. That does not mean the war was appropriate.

What I really want to see is a pole of how many people belive Saddam was involved in 9-11. I bet it's at least 40%.

Depends on the wording. If they ask if Saddam had anything to do with the events surrounding 9/11, I would hope it'd be much higher than that.

- Dan

callen

Two reasons 1/2 of the Americans still believe Iraq had WMD's. Self preservation and convenience.

First the self preservation....Americans were either on one side or the other...well many..and in defending their positions there was lots of public and private conversations about this war. Added to this Bush added the religious card in this......pro-life, pro-religion, fighting "activist" judges......so in the average (not all Dan) god loving American...Bush had to be right..and telling the truth...hell he says GOD BLESS AMERICA at any and every opportunity he has. (actually very smart move.....hence why Hilliary is getting on the boat on this one..if you can't beat them...join them). Good for her.

The second is simply convenience......you make $250k a year...you don't' want your taxes to go up....got to keep filling up that Expedition/Escalade........"fk those on entitlements....I'm keeping what I make..fk everyone else.........and God Bless America.......Go George....W".

I know I'm generalizing here......but pretty much matches all my Repug freinds....
Oh did I already post this is a sweet time for us "Bush Haters" (-: Oh I did...

Peace

callen

BUSH-lager wrote:

This is EXACTLY the kinda thing I'm talking about...

- Dan

what the elitest thing??? Sorry...not true...just there were many Americans that saw this whole thing as stinking like Schize(sp?) from the beginning....so we should be PC now that we seen how Billions of dollars were wasted..thousands of sholdiers are dead..and many many more than that are seriously wounded...come on now.....

if this wasn't what you were referring...let me know...cause I could have missed the point...

callen

Uncle Leo wrote:

I believe they had WMDs. That does not mean the war was appropriate.

What I really want to see is a pole of how many people belive Saddam was involved in 9-11. I bet it's at least 40%.

you to change your mind on beleiving they had WMD's. I'm being serious now. Administration admitted it...independent news sources have stated it......no one has found, photograped anything. Why do you still think he had them???

You also have great point on asking how many Americans think Sadaam was involved in 9/11.

Bu$chlager

callen wrote:

what the elitest thing??? Sorry...not true...just there were many Americans that saw this whole thing as stinking like Schize(sp?) from the beginning....so we should be PC now that we seen how Billions of dollars were wasted..thousands of sholdiers are dead..and many many more than that are seriously wounded...come on now.....

if this wasn't what you were referring...let me know...cause I could have missed the point...

No, I wasn't calling you an elitist per say. I didn't really elude to what I was saying clearly, my bad.

I meant more along the lines of leftists revelling in their discrediting of Bush, and doing on a level that is not very contsructive. I mention it in an earlier post how if the Democrats spent all the energy they put into trying to get everyone to hate this administration, instead into contructive ideas, and getting people to back them, they'd be A LOT better off.

But the left, and their followers continue to relish in the politics of personal destruction. I just don't see how it gets us anywhere. Even if you're right, their are a million times more productive ways to go about it.

DISCLAIMER: I am not implying that the right doesn't do the EXACT same thing, because I know they do. And their are exceptions on both sides, naturally. But right now this strategy seems to be dominating the left leaning adgenda.

- Dan

Bu$chlager

chiefojibwa wrote:

yeah, well we brought the fucking hammer down on iraq without being 100 percent certain, now didn't we?

i love this administration...seriously. WMD's....well, let's go in there, we're not sure, but WE GOTTA TAKE ACTION NOW!!!!

global warming, well, we got all the scientists that say it's happening, but let's not do anything rash like......anything. let's just wait on that one.

You're right. We should have more President's like Bill Clinton. Such a go getter on global warming, and really had his pulse on national security threats.

callen

chiefojibwa wrote:

why no impeachment hearings....let's see. maybe because the HOUSE and SENATE are republican controlled? maybe because the fucking democrats are spineless?

he should be impeached. i mean, we impeached a guy for lying about a blowjob! come on!!

Sex = Bad
Guns Killing = Acceptible

and "God Bless America"

Truthmonger

chiefojibwa wrote:

yeah, well we brought the fucking hammer down on iraq without being 100 percent certain, now didn't we?

i love this administration...seriously. WMD's....well, let's go in there, we're not sure, but WE GOTTA TAKE ACTION NOW!!!!

global warming, well, we got all the scientists that say it's happening, but let's not do anything rash like......anything. let's just wait on that one.

Good point. If there was EVER an argument to be made for pre-emptive military action in this world, and I'm not saying there ever really was, it got shot to hell by this administration and the actions they took in Iraq. Sounds more like a case of premature ejaculation to me.

callen

BUSH-lager wrote:

No, I wasn't calling you an elitist per say. I didn't really elude to what I was saying clearly, my bad.

I meant more along the lines of leftists revelling in their discrediting of Bush, and doing on a level that is not very contsructive. I mention it in an earlier post how if the Democrats spent all the energy they put into trying to get everyone to hate this administration, instead into contructive ideas, and getting people to back them, they'd be A LOT better off.

But the left, and their followers continue to relish in the politics of personal destruction. I just don't see how it gets us anywhere. Even if you're right, their are a million times more productive ways to go about it.

DISCLAIMER: I am not implying that the right doesn't do the EXACT same thing, because I know they do. And their are exceptions on both sides, naturally. But right now this strategy seems to be dominating the left leaning adgenda.

- Dan

Its just we (and I'm not really a true Dem...believe alot of Rep ideals) were just sooo feakin devastated when Bush got in again...it was truely painful...and I live in Houston...the crap I got the next day at work....rubbed it rubbed it....was sick to my stomach....and got to tell you, even today..the freakin Dems are still weak and all over the place....so to the point, this is why some of us...me included, do steep low and give some back. IS childish....but feels soooo good. Say Uncle Dan ...say Uncle...(-: Just having fun...sorry its on your behalf. Oh and all my ardent Bush freinds only one's cryed uncle....but only on one or two issues.

Peace...always.

Callen