How I Learned to Vote for Less Evil

rebornFixer

Well, I can understand where you're coming from. Sometimes one has to vote a bit pragmatically, although I will admit to being the first person to bitch at those who vote pragmatically for someone I perceive to be in the wrong (e.g., the Canadians last election who voted Liberal out of Harper-phobia). But yeah ... You haven't lost my respect. Sometimes one has to play ball a bit in the interest of realism.

kenny olav

soulsinging wrote:

you say you wont vote for the green party cos they can never win then advocate dismantling the federal government? how is that any more realistic?

yeah, you know, both plans are on the outer fringe of what's possible. much more idealistic than realistic.

so if i'm going to advocate one, I might as well advocate the one i like the best.

And maybe if people talk about it now, it may happen in 40 years. I'd love to spend my golden years in either the Second Vermont Republic or the Republic of Cascadia.

MrBrian

WindNoSail wrote:

Wow, now Lieberman is a piece of #$#% because he doesn't fall in line with your views? In hindsight I might add.

Clinton was revered by liberals and still is, and Lieberman is more like Clinton than anyone else that has run in the past two elections. You guys amaze me!

what are my views now? and did you know me back whenever?

---

Lieberman was more like clinton than anyone else to run in the past two elections? now how is that a good thing?

"Clinton was revered by liberals and still is", I'm not even gonna touch that one.

kenny olav

Saturnal wrote:

Voting IS making a statement, and I think the only vote that's wasted is one that isn't cast. I do agree that realistically, we have to accept the 2-party system for now though.

However, I think people really need to understand that voting and elections are not what drive change. Activism drives change. That'll always be 1000 times more important than voting. Every major change that has happened has come from organized public pressure on the government. It never came a politician who decided to change things.

OK, I have to totally agree with this. So I would no longer say casting a vote to make a statement is a wasted vote, but a misused vote.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Kenny Olav wrote:

OK, I have to totally agree with this. So I would no longer say casting a vote to make a statement is a wasted vote, but a misused vote.

I would agree with that if you're in a swing state, because there your vote can actually make a difference. But if you're not in a swing state, then you really don't have a chance to affect the outcome. I'm not in a swing state, so I usually vote for Nader (or a 3rd party candidate) to make the statement that I'm against both republicans and democrats. If I were in a swing state, I would've voted for Kerry. When you're in a swing state, THEN it becomes a choice of 2 evils.

kenny olav

Saturnal wrote:

I would agree with that if you're in a swing state, because there your vote can actually make a difference. But if you're not in a swing state, then you really don't have a chance to affect the outcome. I'm not in a swing state, so I usually vote for Nader (or a 3rd party candidate) to make the statement that I'm against both republicans and democrats. If I were in a swing state, I would've voted for Kerry. When you're in a swing state, THEN it becomes a choice of 2 evils.

Right, and myself living in Massachusetts, I felt very comfortable voting Green, however if I had lived in Florida in 2000, I know I still would have voted for Nader. In 2004, I was less sure about voting that way and I'm not sure what I would have done if I had lived in a swing state... I didn't have to think too much about it.

This year we have what could be a very close governor's race. Since I'm registered independent now, I'm going to vote in the Democratic primary. Still haven't figured out which one of the 3 assholes I'm going to vote for. (I've pretty much ruled out Gabrieli, and now I'm split between Patrick and Reilly)

I haven't given up on trying to change things. I know the best way to change things is to change our government - but I don't think that can happen until people want to change it. I don't see much sense in running a campaign unless you know there's a chance of victory. So what I want to work for is spreading information to convince people there is a better way of organizing our societies. That might take awhile...

A good way to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_jamming

kenny olav

So I was watching the Democratic gubernatorial debate last night, and no surprise, I really don't like any of the 3 candidates. If I have to pick one, I guess it will be Tom Reilly. But this whole realpolitik thing is getting me down...

...time to listen to some music on my headphones and forget all about it.

MrBrian

Kenny Olav wrote:

So I was watching the Democratic gubernatorial debate last night, and no surprise, I really don't like any of the 3 candidates. If I have to pick one, I guess it will be Tom Reilly. But this whole realpolitik thing is getting me down...

...time to listen to some music on my headphones and forget all about it.

so first you decided to vote for the lesser of two evils and now you are learning to become apathetic, dude, you are quickly becoming the perfect American voter. Well as far as the "systems" concerned anyway.

Of course I say all that half jokingly knowing that you are a smart guy and know what's right and all that stuff.

soulsinging

Kenny Olav wrote:

yeah, you know, both plans are on the outer fringe of what's possible. much more idealistic than realistic.

so if i'm going to advocate one, I might as well advocate the one i like the best.

And maybe if people talk about it now, it may happen in 40 years. I'd love to spend my golden years in either the Second Vermont Republic or the Republic of Cascadia.

im down with that. ive kinda wanted to die in a revolution ever since my irish history class...