New debate on 9/11 theories (Why is Michael Ruppert in exile, and not Alex Jones?)

kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
I was introduced to the idea of a 9/11 conspiracy when I somehow found Alex Jones' http://www.infowars.com website in November of 2001. I found his style to be extreme and clownish, but his arguments were still interesting, so I started to reseach more. I knew Bush and his cronies were up to no good before they took office, and I also knew the seeds of that Islamist rage were sown by the contempable policies of American, British and Israeli administrations - going back decades. But on September 11, that was the most I would blame them for. I had no doubts that Islamist fucks were primarily to blame, and I still think Bin Laden's followers were to blame for hijacking those planes and murdering those people that day. But I don't think Bin Laden worked alone - he had help from murderers in our own government.

However, I didn't even ponder that our own government might have been complicit in the 9/11 attacks until that fucknut Alex Jones brought up some valid points - most notably: the connections between the Bush and Bin Laden families, the clear motive have a pretext for a war that has now taken place, Bush's weird behavior when he learned both towers had been hit, the fact that Bush's brother Marvin was in charge of security at both the WTC and United Airlines, the fact that FBI agent and Al Qaeda specialist John O'Neill - who warned the Bush administration of coming attacks by Al Qaeda - was forced out of the FBI and given a position in charge of security at the WTC (where he died on 9/11), the highly unusual trading of put options of United and American Airlines stocks on Sept 9, 2001 though no negative news broke on these airlines and no other airlines were affected, and there's more.

But here's something new to consider:

While Alex Jones and the makers of Loose Change and others propose easily assailable theories such as no plane hitting the pentagon and controlled demolition of the towers... no government spooks have bothered them. In fact, I would guess that Alex Jones has made a very successful career of his quackery.

However, while Michael Ruppert of http://www.fromthewilderness.com proposes cautious and rational theories on 9/11, he has been burgalized, poisoned and forced to leave the country... he now lives in Venezuela!!

More info on Michael Ruppert:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ruppert

His two critics, David Corn of The Nation and Normon Solomon of Pacifica work for the same shadowy government agencies they purport to criticize.

Look: Phony "Left" Alternative Media

Now that Gore Vidal and Howard Zinn are raising the same concerns as Michael Ruppert, I wonder what will happen to them. But I would guess they are too high profile to do damage too. They will probably just get ignored.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Thank you Mr. Olav! Of all the people on here who go on about 911 and the inside job, I haven't seen Rupperts name since a few select people first started tossing around the "nonsense" on 912. :) A shame that his name never really comes up. A smart man, who's parents put him in the right direction and he couldn't handle the BS that comes with the job and decided to expose a few things along the way. The guy lived on the street so they couldn't find him before 911 went down. He took exposing things to a new level and I can see why he is a wanted man. He gave a beauty lecture/speech at the U of T and I was lucky enough to hear it on their local radio station.

    Glad to know some are keeping the name of reality alive!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    For a detailed account of the fact that Bush and his thugs knowingly permitted the 9/11 attacks to happen, check this book out:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Pearl-Harbor-Disturbing-Administration/dp/1844370364/ref=sr_1_1/203-3019007-0952757?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173702918&sr=1-1
  • even flow? wrote:
    Thank you Mr. Olav! Of all the people on here who go on about 911 and the inside job, I haven't seen Rupperts name since a few select people first started tossing around the "nonsense" on 912. :)

    Who was stopping you? ;)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • This makes no sense at all...shocking video...still after all this time.

    "There are more police in Manhattan than U.S. troops in Afghanistan"

    bush: "I'm a war president" "I just don't have all that much time to spend on Bin Laden to be honest"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC2Zbuz0qKI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRY_BOYeySc&mode=related&search=
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Byrnzie wrote:
    For a detailed account of the fact that Bush and his thugs knowingly permitted the 9/11 attacks to happen, check this book out:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Pearl-Harbor-Disturbing-Administration/dp/1844370364/ref=sr_1_1/203-3019007-0952757?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173702918&sr=1-1


    Thanks for the recommendation byrnzie, i will check it out.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Who was stopping you? ;)


    I have bought into the idea that two different buildings fell the exact same way. And that their friend felt so lonely without them that he decided to fall too. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • even flow? wrote:
    I have bought into the idea that two different buildings fell the exact same way. And that their friend felt so lonely without them that he decided to fall too. ;)

    Well, it is a compelling argument. :D
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Kenny Olav wrote:

    Now that Gore Vidal and Howard Zinn are raising the same concerns as Michael Ruppert, I wonder what will happen to them. But I would guess they are too high profile to do damage too. They will probably just get ignored.

    links?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    Look: Phony "Left" Alternative Media

    Now that Gore Vidal and Howard Zinn are raising the same concerns as Michael Ruppert, I wonder what will happen to them. But I would guess they are too high profile to do damage too. They will probably just get ignored.

    Looking at that chart, how the hell is the is CIA involved in funding/contributing to these publications, and at such a high level? I think this is a put-on.

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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • i also think that chart may be false or misleading. Why would the CIA, which is known to be vehemently antileft in any capacity, be funding things like that? The publications and media represented are the complete antithesis of the skull and bones and of the CIA and the Carlyle Group. The publications even question the validity of those groups. It makes no sense whatsoever for them to be funding them, thus making them stronger.

    If you were a CIA member, or a Carlyle Group member, what would be the purpose in helping out the left media, that is very much against those organizations? What benefit comes of it? Wouldnt they be better off funding the KKK or the Fraternal Order of Police, or some other organization that advocates realist ideas or non revolution ideas? It would be like ZMAG or Pacifica Radio giving funding to the Democrats or something, and basically both of those publications are very much leftist as opposed to Democrat

    The CIA has always hated the left, it would be surprising if they were actually funding them.
  • audome25audome25 Posts: 163
    The CIA has always hated the left, it would be surprising if they were actually funding them.

    what radical action has the left ever taken? How many decades has "the revolution" been coming? you take the opposition and give them something to follow, but something that will never actually threaten you.
  • well the CIA feared MLK so much they tried to expose the public to his womanizing, and taped him while engaging in sexual acts. Hoover even tried to get him to commit suicide. So I think its perfectly fine of me to suggest that the CIA fears the left.

    They feared Lumumba and assassinated him. They feared Malcolm, he was killed. They feared Fred Hampton jr, and he was slaughtered in cold blood by some pigs and CIA men.

    the list goes on and on. The one constant is that the left is ALWAYS the target. You never see them going after a Klan cabal. Its always left radicals.

    They feared the Weathermen so much they illegally gathered info on them, thus making it counterproductive, the weathermen who would have been in jail, or were in jail because of the crimes, were let out because of illegal actions by the CIA

    Cointelpro is notorious for trying to expose and harm the left, going to the point of advocating "nuetralizing" black leaders or student leaders or antiwar leaders.

    Plain and simple, the CIA hates the left. It is a conservative, good old boy network of racist, powermongers, and people who fear change. Read your history books friend. This aint hard to understand stuff. Its basic history.

    Thus my point because even more clear. If the CIA has gone to the point of trying to assassinate leaders, and trying to get MLK to commit suicide, why the hell would they be funding the current left wing vanguard?

    These are people who tried to get John lennon deported, who jailed John Sinclair for two joints, who tried to harm every radical in the 60's, who regularly engaged in illegal activity including murder. You really think they are in bed with the lefties? You must be crazy friend
  • the CIA obviously felt the Weathermen were radical. Or they wouldnt have lied, cheated and stole in order to get info on them. They were a threat to the state and the system.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    audome25 wrote:
    what radical action has the left ever taken? How many decades has "the revolution" been coming? you take the opposition and give them something to follow, but something that will never actually threaten you.


    that would seem to be the rational to me. it's not that there isn't a real left, or real radicals, but i do find it interesting that the radical left seems to be represented by a handful of personalities. not that it has to be. i would prefer it if we broke away from idolizing personalities. at the same time, there are very few brilliant minds in the world, so its natural to look to them for guidance.

    it's just food for thought, you know. i hate to think noam chomsky (for example) is paid off by the CIA, Carlyle Group, etc.. but he did dismiss the whole notion of 9/11 conspiracy as the product of people who are racist and think arabs aren't smart enough to pull off such an attack... i'm paraphrasing him. i thought this was a completely absurd statement, because i for one never doubted that arabs could do that. i have a hard time believing noam chomsky really believes what he said... because he is way too smart to make such an stupid argument.

    noam chomsky and zmag still have a lot of great ideas, though. what the fuck. this world is too hard to figure out.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    my2hands wrote:
    links?


    i will find more links tomorrow... but for now:



    http://www.interlinkbooks.com/BooksN/New_Pearl_Harbor.html

    "David Ray Griffin has done admirable and painstaking research in reviewing the mysteries surrounding the 9-11 attacks. It is the most persuasive argument I have seen for further investigation of the Bush administration's relationship to that historic and troubling event." — Howard Zinn



    http://www.septembereleventh.org/alerts/zinn.php

    May 14, 2004

    To All Those Working for a Peaceful, Just & Environmentally Sustainable Society:

    Whether one views the 9/11 "terrorist" attacks as blow back, a wake-up call, or an unjustified outrage, they have deeply affected the American psyche and our attitudes toward war, the future, and the world. As a historian trying to understand this phenomenon, I tend to view the government's behavior, before and after 9/11, in the context of its leaders' past actions.

    Before 9/11, Bush's inner circle of neoconservative advisors proclaimed the need for a dramatic expansion of U.S. military might entailing "full spectrum dominance" over all other nations and regions (including outer space), long term petro-resource control with permanent Middle East bases, and a preemptive First Strike policy against recalcitrant states. In September 2000, however, the neocon's flagship think tank, the Project for a New America Century, warned that this "process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."

    After 9/11, this administration systematically nurtured the fear of further homeland attacks to justify its own assaults on constitutional rights as well as social and environmental programs that protected "the people" but fettered corporate power and control.

    David Ray Griffin's book "The New Pearl Harbor -- Disturbing Questions About The Bush Administration and 9/11" asks "Were these tragedies simply the result of unprecedented failures and incompetence as the government maintains, or were there elements of foreknowledge and implicit welcome involved?" He attempts to answer this question, reviewing the facts, studying other possible interpretations of these facts, and observing the breakdown of the official story over time.

    Griffin's status as a renowned theologian and his systematic approach to the documented evidence lend this work unique importance and authority. Although still shunned by the mainstream media, his book has already encouraged many thousands to debate the case for possible government complicity and at the very least to demand a full, transparent and truly independent public inquiry.

    Democracy requires citizen vigilance, informed debate and official accountability. In that spirit, David Ray Griffin's book deserves to be widely read.

    Howard Zinn
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    i also think that chart may be false or misleading. Why would the CIA, which is known to be vehemently antileft in any capacity, be funding things like that? The publications and media represented are the complete antithesis of the skull and bones and of the CIA and the Carlyle Group. The publications even question the validity of those groups. It makes no sense whatsoever for them to be funding them, thus making them stronger.

    If you were a CIA member, or a Carlyle Group member, what would be the purpose in helping out the left media, that is very much against those organizations? What benefit comes of it? Wouldnt they be better off funding the KKK or the Fraternal Order of Police, or some other organization that advocates realist ideas or non revolution ideas? It would be like ZMAG or Pacifica Radio giving funding to the Democrats or something, and basically both of those publications are very much leftist as opposed to Democrat

    The CIA has always hated the left, it would be surprising if they were actually funding them.


    b/c the left don't listen to the likes of the kkk of fraternal order of police, they do listen to pacifica radio and read zmag. they fund it to keep the 'dissidents' and the message controlled

    i mean come on...a carlyle group member started moveon.org, he also bought dubyas oil company, the one dubya violated sec law with!!! the head of public broadcasting is a person that ran a pr business who had bush as one of their major clients
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    El_Kabong wrote:
    b/c the left don't listen to the likes of the kkk of fraternal order of police, they do listen to pacifica radio and read zmag. they fund it to keep the 'dissidents' and the message controlled

    i mean come on...a carlyle group member started moveon.org, he also bought dubyas oil company, the one dubya violated sec law with!!! the head of public broadcasting is a person that ran a pr business who had bush as one of their major clients

    it's also funny when i hear conservative talking heads and radio yappers bashing moveon.org when they share the same masters. it's all part of the same bogus national debate that gets generated by the big media outlets and filters down thru all of the media until everyone is talking about the same shit in their living rooms, fitting into nice neat molds of liberal, moderate and conservative, and the occasional communist radical, libertarian and fascist. its funny because when i think about it i feel like i fit into all of these molds all at the same time. i dont know, maybe i'm just talking crazy, but one thing i know is i have been absorbed in politics for almost ten years and its all the same shit. its become totally predictable. and boring!!!
  • Kenny Olav wrote:
    its become totally predictable. and boring!!!



    but now there are a lot more people and some pretty awesome technology. it will get interesting.
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    but now there are a lot more people and some pretty awesome technology. it will get interesting.
    There's tons more information available, and yes, that makes things interesting these days.

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  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    but now there are a lot more people and some pretty awesome technology. it will get interesting.

    i am definately glad that the internet has given more people a voice. there are a lot of interesting blogs out there - thankfully - because i can't tolerate the mainstream news and opinion media for more than about a 1/2 hour. if i had to choose between TV and internet, internet easily wins.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    it's also funny when i hear conservative talking heads and radio yappers bashing moveon.org when they share the same masters. it's all part of the same bogus national debate that gets generated by the big media outlets and filters down thru all of the media until everyone is talking about the same shit in their living rooms, fitting into nice neat molds of liberal, moderate and conservative, and the occasional communist radical, libertarian and fascist. its funny because when i think about it i feel like i fit into all of these molds all at the same time. i dont know, maybe i'm just talking crazy, but one thing i know is i have been absorbed in politics for almost ten years and its all the same shit. its become totally predictable. and boring!!!

    libertarian socialism is where its at. :)

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  • audome25audome25 Posts: 163
    gue_barium wrote:
    libertarian socialism is where its at. :)


    would that be the people having the power to distribute the wealth evenly?

    that basi assumption that they would choose to is quite a leap.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    audome25 wrote:
    would that be the people having the power to distribute the wealth evenly?

    that basi assumption that they would choose to is quite a leap.

    i haven't seen 'basi' in the dictionary.

    i have a pretty good vertical leap for a white guy.

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  • fanch75fanch75 Posts: 3,734
    What about Alex Van Halen?
    Do you remember Rock & Roll Radio?
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