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Religion in public schools
hippiemom
Posts: 3,326
Is anyone else surprised that this is happening in Delaware? I'd be disappointed but hardly shocked to see a story like this coming out of the deep south, but Delaware??? If anyone still needs something to convince them that religion has no place in the public schools, here it is ...
Families Challenging Religious Influence in Delaware Schools
By NEELA BANERJEE (NYT) 1316 words
Published: July 29, 2006
GEORGETOWN, Del. - After her family moved to this small town 30 years ago, Mona Dobrich grew up as the only Jew in school. Mrs. Dobrich, 39, married a local man, bought the house behind her parents' home and brought up her two children as Jews.
For years, she and her daughter, Samantha, listened to Christian prayers at public school potlucks, award dinners and parent-teacher group meetings, she said. But at Samantha's high school graduation in June 2004, a minister's prayer proclaiming Jesus as the only way to the truth nudged Mrs. Dobrich to act.
''It was as if no matter how much hard work, no matter how good a person you are, the only way you'll ever be anything is through Jesus Christ,'' Mrs. Dobrich said. ''He said those words, and I saw Sam's head snap and her start looking around, like, 'Where's my mom? Where's my mom?' And all I wanted to do was run up and take her in my arms.''
After the graduation, Mrs. Dobrich asked the Indian River district school board to consider prayers that were more generic and, she said, less exclusionary. As news of her request spread, many local Christians saw it as an effort to limit their free exercise of religion, residents said. Anger spilled on to talk radio, in letters to the editor and at school board meetings attended by hundreds of people carrying signs praising Jesus.
''What people here are saying is, 'Stop interfering with our traditions, stop interfering with our faith and leave our country the way we knew it to be,' '' said Dan Gaffney, a host at WGMD, a talk radio station in Rehoboth, and a supporter of prayer in the school district.
After receiving several threats, Mrs. Dobrich took her son, Alex, to Wilmington in the fall of 2004, planning to stay until the controversy blew over. It never has.
The Dobriches eventually sued the Indian River School District, challenging what they asserted was the pervasiveness of religion in the schools and seeking financial damages. They have been joined by ''the Does,'' a family still in the school district who have remained anonymous because of the response against the Dobriches.
Meanwhile, a Muslim family in another school district here in Sussex County has filed suit, alleging proselytizing in the schools and the harassment of their daughters.
The move to Wilmington, the Dobriches said, wrecked them financially, leading them to sell their house and their daughter to drop out of Columbia University.
The dispute here underscores the rising tensions over religion in public schools.
''We don't have data on the number of lawsuits, but anecdotally, people think it has never been so active -- the degree to which these conflicts erupt in schools and the degree to which they are litigated,'' said Tom Hutton, a staff lawyer at the National School Boards Association.
More religion probably exists in schools now than in decades because of the role religious conservatives play in politics and the passage of certain education laws over the last 25 years, including the Equal Access Act in 1984, said Charles C. Haynes, senior scholar at the First Amendment Center, a research and education group.
''There are communities largely of one faith, and despite all the court rulings and Supreme Court decisions, they continue to promote one faith,'' Mr. Haynes said. ''They don't much care what the minority complains about. They're just convinced that what they are doing is good for kids and what America is all about.''
Dr. Donald G. Hattier, a member of the Indian River school board, said the district had changed many policies in response to Mrs. Dobrich's initial complaints. But the board unanimously rejected a proposed settlement of the Dobriches' lawsuit.
''There were a couple of provisions that were unacceptable to the board,'' said Jason Gosselin, a lawyer for the board. ''The parties are working in good faith to move closer to settlement.''
Until recently, it was safe to assume that everyone in the Indian River district was Christian, said the Rev. Mark Harris, an Episcopal priest at St. Peter's Church in Lewes.
But much has changed in Sussex County over the last 30 years. The county, in southern Delaware, has resort enclaves like Rehoboth Beach, to which outsiders bring their cash and, often, liberal values. Inland, in the area of Georgetown, the county seat, the land is still a lush patchwork of corn and soybean fields, with a few poultry plants. But developers are turning more fields into tracts of rambling homes. The Hispanic population is booming. There are enough Reform Jews, Muslims and Quakers to set up their own centers and groups, Mr. Harris said.
In interviews with a dozen people here and comments on the radio by a half-dozen others, the overwhelming majority insisted, usually politely, that prayer should stay in the schools.
''We have a way of doing things here, and it's not going to change to accommodate a very small minority,'' said Kenneth R. Stevens, 41, a businessman sitting in the Georgetown Diner. ''If they feel singled out, they should find another school or excuse themselves from those functions. It's our way of life.''
The Dobrich and Doe legal complaint portrays a district in which children were given special privileges for being in Bible club, Bibles were distributed in 2003 at an elementary school, Christian prayer was routine at school functions and teachers evangelized.
''Because Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, I will speak out for him,'' said the Rev. Jerry Fike of Mount Olivet Brethren Church, who gave the prayer at Samantha's graduation. ''The Bible encourages that.'' Mr. Fike continued: ''Ultimately, he is the one I have to please. If doing that places me at odds with the law of the land, I still have to follow him.''
Mrs. Dobrich, who is Orthodox, said that when she was a girl, Christians here had treated her faith with respectful interest. Now, she said, her son was ridiculed in school for wearing his yarmulke. She described a classmate of his drawing a picture of a pathway to heaven for everyone except ''Alex the Jew.''
Mrs. Dobrich's decision to leave her hometown and seek legal help came after a school board meeting in August 2004 on the issue of prayer. Dr. Hattier had called WGMD to discuss the issue, and Mr. Gaffney and others encouraged people to go the meeting. Hundreds showed up.
A homemaker active in her children's schools, Mrs. Dobrich said she had asked the board to develop policies that would leave no one feeling excluded because of faith. People booed and rattled signs that read ''Jesus Saves,'' she recalled. Her son had written a short statement, but he felt so intimidated that his sister read it for him. In his statement, Alex, who was 11 then, said: ''I feel bad when kids in my class call me 'Jew boy.' I do not want to move away from the house I have lived in forever.''
Later, another speaker turned to Mrs. Dobrich and said, according to several witnesses, ''If you want people to stop calling him 'Jew boy,' you tell him to give his heart to Jesus.''
Immediately afterward, the Dobriches got threatening phone calls. Samantha had enrolled in Columbia, and Mrs. Dobrich decided to go to Wilmington temporarily.
But the controversy simmered, keeping Mrs. Dobrich and Alex away. The cost of renting an apartment in Wilmington led the Dobriches to sell their home here. Mrs. Dobrich's husband, Marco, a school bus driver and transportation coordinator, makes about $30,000 a year and has stayed in town to care for Mrs. Dobrich's ailing parents. Mr. Dobrich declined to comment. Samantha left Columbia because of the financial strain.
The only thing to flourish, Mrs. Dobrich said, was her faith. Her children, she said, ''have so much pride in their religion now.''
''Alex wears his yarmulke all the time. He never takes it off.''
Families Challenging Religious Influence in Delaware Schools
By NEELA BANERJEE (NYT) 1316 words
Published: July 29, 2006
GEORGETOWN, Del. - After her family moved to this small town 30 years ago, Mona Dobrich grew up as the only Jew in school. Mrs. Dobrich, 39, married a local man, bought the house behind her parents' home and brought up her two children as Jews.
For years, she and her daughter, Samantha, listened to Christian prayers at public school potlucks, award dinners and parent-teacher group meetings, she said. But at Samantha's high school graduation in June 2004, a minister's prayer proclaiming Jesus as the only way to the truth nudged Mrs. Dobrich to act.
''It was as if no matter how much hard work, no matter how good a person you are, the only way you'll ever be anything is through Jesus Christ,'' Mrs. Dobrich said. ''He said those words, and I saw Sam's head snap and her start looking around, like, 'Where's my mom? Where's my mom?' And all I wanted to do was run up and take her in my arms.''
After the graduation, Mrs. Dobrich asked the Indian River district school board to consider prayers that were more generic and, she said, less exclusionary. As news of her request spread, many local Christians saw it as an effort to limit their free exercise of religion, residents said. Anger spilled on to talk radio, in letters to the editor and at school board meetings attended by hundreds of people carrying signs praising Jesus.
''What people here are saying is, 'Stop interfering with our traditions, stop interfering with our faith and leave our country the way we knew it to be,' '' said Dan Gaffney, a host at WGMD, a talk radio station in Rehoboth, and a supporter of prayer in the school district.
After receiving several threats, Mrs. Dobrich took her son, Alex, to Wilmington in the fall of 2004, planning to stay until the controversy blew over. It never has.
The Dobriches eventually sued the Indian River School District, challenging what they asserted was the pervasiveness of religion in the schools and seeking financial damages. They have been joined by ''the Does,'' a family still in the school district who have remained anonymous because of the response against the Dobriches.
Meanwhile, a Muslim family in another school district here in Sussex County has filed suit, alleging proselytizing in the schools and the harassment of their daughters.
The move to Wilmington, the Dobriches said, wrecked them financially, leading them to sell their house and their daughter to drop out of Columbia University.
The dispute here underscores the rising tensions over religion in public schools.
''We don't have data on the number of lawsuits, but anecdotally, people think it has never been so active -- the degree to which these conflicts erupt in schools and the degree to which they are litigated,'' said Tom Hutton, a staff lawyer at the National School Boards Association.
More religion probably exists in schools now than in decades because of the role religious conservatives play in politics and the passage of certain education laws over the last 25 years, including the Equal Access Act in 1984, said Charles C. Haynes, senior scholar at the First Amendment Center, a research and education group.
''There are communities largely of one faith, and despite all the court rulings and Supreme Court decisions, they continue to promote one faith,'' Mr. Haynes said. ''They don't much care what the minority complains about. They're just convinced that what they are doing is good for kids and what America is all about.''
Dr. Donald G. Hattier, a member of the Indian River school board, said the district had changed many policies in response to Mrs. Dobrich's initial complaints. But the board unanimously rejected a proposed settlement of the Dobriches' lawsuit.
''There were a couple of provisions that were unacceptable to the board,'' said Jason Gosselin, a lawyer for the board. ''The parties are working in good faith to move closer to settlement.''
Until recently, it was safe to assume that everyone in the Indian River district was Christian, said the Rev. Mark Harris, an Episcopal priest at St. Peter's Church in Lewes.
But much has changed in Sussex County over the last 30 years. The county, in southern Delaware, has resort enclaves like Rehoboth Beach, to which outsiders bring their cash and, often, liberal values. Inland, in the area of Georgetown, the county seat, the land is still a lush patchwork of corn and soybean fields, with a few poultry plants. But developers are turning more fields into tracts of rambling homes. The Hispanic population is booming. There are enough Reform Jews, Muslims and Quakers to set up their own centers and groups, Mr. Harris said.
In interviews with a dozen people here and comments on the radio by a half-dozen others, the overwhelming majority insisted, usually politely, that prayer should stay in the schools.
''We have a way of doing things here, and it's not going to change to accommodate a very small minority,'' said Kenneth R. Stevens, 41, a businessman sitting in the Georgetown Diner. ''If they feel singled out, they should find another school or excuse themselves from those functions. It's our way of life.''
The Dobrich and Doe legal complaint portrays a district in which children were given special privileges for being in Bible club, Bibles were distributed in 2003 at an elementary school, Christian prayer was routine at school functions and teachers evangelized.
''Because Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, I will speak out for him,'' said the Rev. Jerry Fike of Mount Olivet Brethren Church, who gave the prayer at Samantha's graduation. ''The Bible encourages that.'' Mr. Fike continued: ''Ultimately, he is the one I have to please. If doing that places me at odds with the law of the land, I still have to follow him.''
Mrs. Dobrich, who is Orthodox, said that when she was a girl, Christians here had treated her faith with respectful interest. Now, she said, her son was ridiculed in school for wearing his yarmulke. She described a classmate of his drawing a picture of a pathway to heaven for everyone except ''Alex the Jew.''
Mrs. Dobrich's decision to leave her hometown and seek legal help came after a school board meeting in August 2004 on the issue of prayer. Dr. Hattier had called WGMD to discuss the issue, and Mr. Gaffney and others encouraged people to go the meeting. Hundreds showed up.
A homemaker active in her children's schools, Mrs. Dobrich said she had asked the board to develop policies that would leave no one feeling excluded because of faith. People booed and rattled signs that read ''Jesus Saves,'' she recalled. Her son had written a short statement, but he felt so intimidated that his sister read it for him. In his statement, Alex, who was 11 then, said: ''I feel bad when kids in my class call me 'Jew boy.' I do not want to move away from the house I have lived in forever.''
Later, another speaker turned to Mrs. Dobrich and said, according to several witnesses, ''If you want people to stop calling him 'Jew boy,' you tell him to give his heart to Jesus.''
Immediately afterward, the Dobriches got threatening phone calls. Samantha had enrolled in Columbia, and Mrs. Dobrich decided to go to Wilmington temporarily.
But the controversy simmered, keeping Mrs. Dobrich and Alex away. The cost of renting an apartment in Wilmington led the Dobriches to sell their home here. Mrs. Dobrich's husband, Marco, a school bus driver and transportation coordinator, makes about $30,000 a year and has stayed in town to care for Mrs. Dobrich's ailing parents. Mr. Dobrich declined to comment. Samantha left Columbia because of the financial strain.
The only thing to flourish, Mrs. Dobrich said, was her faith. Her children, she said, ''have so much pride in their religion now.''
''Alex wears his yarmulke all the time. He never takes it off.''
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
I know LOTS of people who would read that article and back the school board's position, and I'm in central Illinois. It's not just the south, unfortunately. Look at Kansas, they're lousy with this kind of crap.
Religion has no place in the education of our, or anybody's youth.
Nice to see the parents in Kansas fighting back over the Creationism subject though.
What kind of civilised country allows such nonsense onto a curriculum?
If a country like Turkey can keep religion and education separatem why can;t the US?
Religion is not for kids, it's for adults who are lost, lost, lost.
Hey, preacher, leave those kids alone !!!
Correction, religion has no place in public education.
Well then don't teach your kids about religion... if parents want to take their kids to sunday school or church or whater, that is their choice.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
A little respect would from and for both sides would go a long way.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
No. No correction. Religion has no place in the life of a being who does not choose to have that religion in their life. Religion is for sundays, education is for life, for the real world.
And what of the kids choice? You don't seem to be giving any respect to children in this. But you go ahead, help to support the forcing of ideologies upon them. I'm sure it won't turn them away from your good lord in the long run.
kids are taught lots of things - what are you going to do with your kids? teach conspiracy theories all day long?
Oh dear...that was constructive. The youth club let you out early today, Son?
Who said care in the community couldn't work.
constructive?
the only thing i've ever seen coming out of your fingers is destructive antagonism - it really is boring
Absolutely wrong. Religion is for life and beyond, not just Sundays.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
just like dogs and other pets......
Ahh...keep making fun...that really lends credibility to your point of view.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
nothing wrong with making fun is there?
makes a difference from making war........ more and more war based on religion, religious intolerance, terrorism, fanaticism...
nobody dies from making fun....
i think we both know i have no credibility on here anyway..... not that i care
People make wars. Blaming it on religion is just propaganda and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
and yet god made people....
yet another fine example of 'free will' is it?
and you're right... topic at hand... religion shouldnt be taught in schools... as the young mind is like a sponge... so lets fill it with facts first and then if THEY decide to learn about religion, let them... until then... religion has its place, and school isnt it!
Ahh...let's fill it with "facts". Like the "facts" they used to teach in the schools about the earth being flat, etc. I firmly believe the "facts" of today will be disproven tomorrow.
I tend to agree that religion doesn't have its place in a PUBLIC school, but I also do not see the harm in a prayer sometimes at some events. It wouldn't bother me if the prayer was for another religion, but let's face it, the vast, vast majority of Americans are Christian.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
the vast majority are also very fat... should they hand out burgers before these prayers as well.
that maybe true... but at least the evolution of theories on things like Earth being flat can adapt and change... the bible/religion cannot be like the above 'fact' as no matter how good the scientific evidence is.... its never accepted as all the 'fact' you think you need are faith and the bible...
the world isnt flat... which is why we dont learn that it is anymore... therefore its factual evidence we are teaching in classes... sure they'll disprove other facts tomorrow... the point being that we'll learn the new facts... unlike religion where the new fact cannot or will never be accepted as it defeats the purpose... so to speak.
Maybe the theories of humans will continue to evolve as you describe and eventually will end up in agreement with the bible....
The point is - it's interesting that in one post you demand that "facts" be taught and then with another you acknowledge their fallibility.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Not sure where the relevance is in that, but I do not think too many people would oppose.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
no relevance... it was just for fun
i was meaning more "facts" in the factual sense
by that i mean History... actual recorded events... Biology, French, Phys Ed, Music... you know factual things... like 2 x 5 = 10... that kinda shit... not things about people turning to salt for looking back..
if you actually taught kids the uncensored version of religion they'd be fucking petrified... huge floods, famine, fire, hell, devil, talking snakes, burning bushes that speak, people who believed they were being spoken to by god attempting to kill their sons, faith-healing, angels, rivers being parted, etc....
As far as I see it, religion seems to be the ultimate form of exclusion. It has absolutely no place in any publicly run institution. If one is so inclined to submerse their children in their own prejudices, then let them do so privately. To have a minister speak publicly at a highschool graduation is absurd. Can you imagine what kind of response people would have had if a Muslim Cleric or Jewish Rabbi came to the podium and started babbling about "chosen people" or other such dribble. If you believe such things, that's fine. Others don't. Those individuals pay taxes as well, and are entitled to recieve public services without descrimination.
AMEN!!!
My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think."
Interesting. As we all know, History is highly subjective and often written from the standpoint of the victor. Therefore, factual isn't necessarily its strong suit.
In addition, much of the bible is history. Now, you may not believe those things happened, but you weren't there. Nor were you there when the history that you do accept happened....yet you believe that....?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's interesting to me that you think this way and then generalize to all religion. I don't think there could be a more accepting place than my church. There's a huge banner that talks about accepting ALL people and making them feel welcome.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
www.myspace.com/jensvad