Young, Ill and Uninsured

24

Comments

  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Where does 'consume' come into this, for you?

    Um...the medicine, labor, and services you and others will consume from a nationalized health care plan.
    I work hard. I just worked 72 hours this week. 60 the week before. I'm putting 'in' my good health, and my ability to produce. Sure, I benefit with a nice paycheck, but I don't mind that my extra energies benefit others. I might be the person who needs that Medicaid one day.

    Awesome. Lots of "I"s in there.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    This is about your paranoia, and your belief that corruption is the rule.

    What am I paranoid of? That if I chose to ignore healthcare-subsidization laws you would force me to? Is that somehow incorrect?
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    baraka wrote:
    What means am I proposing?

    Laws backed by violence of course.
    Have you seen me commit to one 'idea' to solve this problem?

    No. You have, however, indicated that you have no problem with the general idea of considering one person's healthcare another person's obligation.
    You are projecting your paranoia on to me. I do know that our current system is very complex and I'm not sure out right elimination of the private industry would be wise at this point. I do not know enough to propose that we completely throw out our current system. But I do know that our system is broken and reform is needed.

    Sure. Regardless of whether or not you are going to "eliminate private industry" (as if you have any other right to do this outside of violence) or just impose additional obligations of some individuals, you're still violating what I see as correct ethics. It's not as if I consider you allowing private industry to exist as some kind of favor.
    Wow, I'll use that logic on my landlord.

    If you have no lease with your landlord, that logic will work quite well.
    Yeah, if you break the law and squat there will be consequences.

    "Squat" implies ownership. You're showing, in your attitudes towards people's labor and property that ownership is nothing to more to you than possession. So you're invalidating any claim you have to "owning" something.
    You can terminate the contact at any time, just like I can terminate my contract with my landlord. You are not a victim, ffg, so stop pretending to be one.

    I can't terminate a contract I never signed. All I can do is leave.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    What am I paranoid of? That if I chose to ignore healthcare-subsidization laws you would force me to? Is that somehow incorrect?

    Yes. You are incorrect.

    I love this part.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Laws backed by violence of course.



    No. You have, however, indicated that you have no problem with the general idea of considering one person's healthcare another person's obligation.



    Sure. Regardless of whether or not you are going to "eliminate private industry" (as if you have any other right to do this outside of violence) or just impose additional obligations of some individuals, you're still violating what I see as correct ethics. It's not as if I consider you allowing private industry to exist as some kind of favor.



    If you have no lease with your landlord, that logic will work quite well.



    "Squat" implies ownership. You're showing, in your attitudes towards people's labor and property that ownership is nothing to more to you than possession. So you're invalidating any claim you have to "owning" something.



    I can't terminate a contract I never signed. All I can do is leave.

    You are either American or you are not.

    All we can do is try to make a better life in this country. That's all. Any immigrant would say the same thing.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Yes. You are incorrect.

    I love this part.

    How am I incorrect?
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    You are either American or you are not.

    Then I am not, if being "American" means holding your values. I don't hold your values.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    How am I incorrect?

    Before I answer this, I'm going to wait til you ask me to quantify "better life".

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Then I am not, if being "American" means holding your values. I don't hold your values.

    Whoa.

    Ok.

    Alright.

    I'm good with that.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Before I answer this, I'm going to wait til you ask me to quantify "better life".

    If I wanted to know how you quantified that, I would have asked you. I don't really care how you quantify "better life". That's your business, not mine. You're certainly free to tell me if you'd like, but I won't argue with what you see as your "better life" since that implies your standards, not mine.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    "Put out or get out" is a threat, baraka. And you know damn well what that threat is backed by. Deny it if you'd like.
    Interesting. By your statement here, I agree with baraka that the only gun to your head is your own.

    It takes two people to buy into a social contract and only one to opt out. You are sounding like the woman who wants to leave her unhappy marriage but won't because she's got so much invested in their life together. So she stays and complains about it. She's really there because she gets more out of it than she disagrees with. And people begin to tune out her complaints after awhile, because she's being passive-aggressive. When she really no longer buys into the marriage contract, she'll let go of her contradictions and her thoughts/words/AND deeds will ALL align with her no longer willing to buy in. As long as she compromises her own ideals, it's her who is selling herself down the river, and everyone knows it.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    Whoa.

    Ok.

    Alright.

    I'm good with that.

    Radio static: akjsdhasjdha headquarters?

    A: yes, this is headquarters.

    Q: did you run an APB on that post?

    A: Yes, I did.

    Q: fucker says he isn't American.

    A: that's right, sir.

    Q: we need to deport his ass.

    A: that might be complicated, sir.

    Q: why is that?

    A: says he was born here.

    Q: Sumbitch.

    A: yes, sir. One of "those".

    Q: I guess I could list him as an outside agitator.

    A: Yes, sir.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm good with that.

    Obviously not, since you're going to tell me what I have to value and what I have to do, giving me only the choice between living out your values, going to prison, or leaving my home. Or am I wrong about that?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    If I wanted to know how you quantified that, I would have asked you. I don't really care how you quantify "better life". That's your business, not mine. You're certainly free to tell me if you'd like, but I won't argue with what you see as your "better life" since that implies your standards, not mine.

    Better life = better Country.

    Why do you stump for Ron Paul? I have to believe it is because you think, through Ron Paul, America would be a better country.

    No?

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    angelica wrote:
    It takes two people to buy into a social contract and only one to opt out.

    Huh? It only takes one person to "buy into a social contract" -- the person who invents it as a concept and holds it over the head of another. And no one can "opt out" of a social contract. They can only leave its defined reach.
    You are sounding like the woman who wants to leave her unhappy marriage but won't because she's got so much invested in their life together.

    This would be a valid argument if there were options closer to my values than the one I'm currently in.
    So she stays and complains about it. She's really there because she gets more out of it than she disagrees with. And people begin to tune out her complaints after awhile, because she's being passive-aggressive. When she really no longer buys into the marriage contract, she'll let go of her contradictions and her thoughts/words/AND deeds will ALL align with her no longer willing to buy in. As long as she compromises her own ideals, it's her who is selling herself down the river, and everyone knows it.

    I think it's awesome that you effectively proclaimed America the drunken wife-beater in your analogy here.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Obviously not, since you're going to tell me what I have to value and what I have to do, giving me only the choice between living out your values, going to prison, or leaving my home. Or am I wrong about that?

    I'm as mountain man as they get on this board, FFG. I've lived it. I've fished and hunted and scrounged for food while taking shelter in a tent in the woods for months on end. In this country.

    I don't think you could do it.

    You have the attitude, but I think the first few nights might break you. In fact, I'm sure you don't even know how to get that far. You're too comfy, and dependent.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Better life = better Country.

    Why do you stump for Ron Paul? I have to believe it is because you think, through Ron Paul, America would be a better country.

    No?

    I do believe that. The reason I believe that is because people would have more options and more freedom to live out their values, rather than less. If Ron Paul was interested in imposing a set of values and activities upon society, I'd oppose him as much as the rest of his counterparts.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm as mountain man as they get on this board, FFG. I've lived it. I've fished and hunted and scrounged for food while taking shelter in a tent in the woods for months on end. In this country.

    Cool.
    I don't think you could do it.

    Ok.
    You have the attitude, but I think the first few nights might break you. In fact, I'm sure you don't even know how to get that far. You're too comfy, and dependent.

    Awesome.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I do believe that. The reason I believe that is because people would have more options and more freedom to live out their values, rather than less. If Ron Paul was interested in imposing a set of values and activities upon society, I'd oppose him as much as the rest of his counterparts.

    But, value, as it is, is dollar-dictated.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Cool.



    Ok.



    Awesome.

    I am a manly man, I am.

    I saw your picture, you're kinda cute.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Huh? It only takes one person to "buy into a social contract" -- the person who invents it as a concept and holds it over the head of another. And no one can "opt out" of a social contract. They can only leave its defined reach.
    You use your entire being to buy into that contract in everyday. You use the resources available to you with all of your being--your entire being drives on the roads, your entire being provides the police work to do when you speed, etc, etc. It's only in theory that you "live" otherwise. You can't use your entire being and partake of a system and expect people to deny that like you do in order to make your philosophy work. The terms of such an "invisible or imaginary contract" represents the human being named "farfromglorified", willingly, happily and deliberately supporting and interacting with the American system.

    angelica wrote:
    You are sounding like the woman who wants to leave her unhappy marriage but won't because she's got so much invested in their life together. So she stays and complains about it. She's really there because she gets more out of it than she disagrees with. And people begin to tune out her complaints after awhile, because she's being passive-aggressive. When she really no longer buys into the marriage contract, she'll let go of her contradictions and her thoughts/words/AND deeds will ALL align with her no longer willing to buy in. As long as she compromises her own ideals, it's her who is selling herself down the river, and everyone knows it.
    I think it's awesome that you effectively proclaimed America the drunken wife-beater in your analogy here.

    Here we see your subjective emotions are actually painting a picture that does not exist. Emotion skews reality. You've imagined I said "drunken wife-beater". Can you show me where I said that? How does "unhappy marriage" equate to "drunken wife-beater", unless you are strongly reading in from your own filters and distorting the facts? I even painted the woman as human/flawed, and you've still created her partner as a "drunken wife-beater" based on no indication of that.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    You use your entire being to buy into that contract in everyday. You use the resources available to you with all of your being--your entire being drives on the roads, your entire being provides the police work to do when you speed, etc, etc. It's only in theory that you "live" otherwise. You can't use your entire being and partake of a system and expect people to deny that like you do in order to make your philosophy work. The terms of such an "invisible or imaginary contract" represents the human being named "farfromglorified", willingly, happily and deliberately supporting and interacting with the American system.




    Here we see your subjective emotions are actually painting a picture that does not exist. Emotion skews reality. You've imagined I said "drunken wife-beater". Can you show me where I said that? How does "unhappy marriage" equate to "drunken wife-beater", unless you are strongly reading in from your own filters and distorting the facts? I even painted the woman as human/flawed, and you've still created her partner as a "drunken wife-beater" based on no indication of that.

    edit: not as bad as i thought.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    You use your entire being to buy into that contract in everyday. You use the resources available to you with all of your being--your entire being drives on the roads, your entire being provides the police work to do when you speed, etc, etc. It's only in theory that you "live" otherwise. You can't use your entire being and partake of a system and expect people to deny that like you do in order to make your philosophy work. The terms of such an "invisible or imaginary contract" represents the human being named "farfromglorified", willingly, happily and deliberately supporting and interacting with the American system.




    Here we see your subjective emotions are actually painting a picture that does not exist. Emotion skews reality. You've imagined I said "drunken wife-beater". Can you show me where I said that? How does "unhappy marriage" equate to "drunken wife-beater", unless you are strongly reading in from your own filters and distorting the facts? I even painted the woman as human/flawed, and you've still created her partner as a "drunken wife-beater" based on no indication of that.

    My dad was a drunken wife-beater. He beat his kids, too.

    Fucker.

    Not to mention he had a 172 IQ.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    gue_barium wrote:
    edit: not as bad as i thought.
    Hey, at least I caught the dominatrix comment, back in the day. ;)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    Hey, at least I caught the dominatrix comment, back in the day. ;)

    You've made a gemlight in my heart. :)

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm as mountain man as they get on this board, FFG. I've lived it. I've fished and hunted and scrounged for food while taking shelter in a tent in the woods for months on end. In this country.

    I don't think you could do it.

    You have the attitude, but I think the first few nights might break you. In fact, I'm sure you don't even know how to get that far. You're too comfy, and dependent.
    And again, it's like the woman who won't leave her husband. She doesn't like her options. So she "blames" the faulty options, and absolves her own being for what it does.

    Whether farfromglorified could or would do it, the facts show us that he chooses not to.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    And again, it's like the woman who won't leave her husband. She doesn't like her options. So she "blames" the faulty options, and absolves her own being for what it does.

    Whether farfromglorified could or would do it, the facts show us that he chooses not to.

    You've tracked down the conflict/attitude. Now what?

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    But, value, as it is, is dollar-dictated.

    No, value as however you choose to dictate it. If you don't believe dollars have value, or you don't believe dollars are an appropriate vehicle of exchange, find another.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    My dad was a drunken wife-beater. He beat his kids, too.

    Fucker.

    Not to mention he had a 172 IQ.

    That's true. He was a Mensan.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified, I have to confront your "script" or what you tell yourself in order to cast the blame on others and absolve yourself. You see these scripts when others do it and you call them on it.

    I have had much "reason" to blame people for the horrors of my life. Notice that I don't blame anyone? My actually healing hinged on truly understanding my tacit agreement and compliance each step of the way in my life. Realizing and owning my choices is the true liberation. Denial and scripts is holding the lack of congruence between self and innner-harmony.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.