I'll be glad...

FiveB247x

I'll be glad when the US election is over with. The portion of the population that actually decides to pay attention (briefly) of what goes on in the nation will crawl back under their rock or stick their heads back into the sand. I got some sad news for everyone, no matter who wins, not much will change. If the Reps win, we'll continue many of our faulty policies and if the Dems win, we'll make a small shift back towards centrist policies. In short, we won't fix any of our problems - all we will do is in a minute way, attempt to band-aid the effects of our problems - not the causes. Elections in the US are like the Super Bowl, everyone shows up to watch and pretends they watched the entire season when in reality they didn't, they merely just showed up on one day and the following will go back to their routine. Whether its wars in foreign lands, the economy or the price of oil, houses or goods, it is very apparent to most of the nation that these things are very contrived and man-made causes. Price gouging and self created problems due to greed and tyranny are what plagues this nation and the population just doesn't care enough or long enough to bother to realistically fix it. You reap what you sow in life, so the population can reap it as they have their hand on the switch to stop such things, but just don't. I feel no sympathy nor should anyone in this nation - it's all our own doing and no one is innocent. Our nation is not a beacon of freedom, democracy or any of the other great things we were founded upon, in fact it represents much worse things that go against the tenets we were created. It's the sad reality no one wants to admit or face. So come Election, pull your lever, but know full well it won't change anything significant or important. Your government has abandoned you and auctioned off your future and safety to the highest bidder, but people are too weak and uncaring to do anything about it. Everyone's more concerned about picking sides and being designated to a particular party or belief, compared to actually fixing problems and when that happens, you have no one to blame but yourself. But keep voting for the 2 major parties, being an enabler always helps.

blondieblue227

don't vote = don't bitch

fugawzi

Well I have been paying attention. Especially the last 8 years. I think more people in this country did start paying attention when 9/11 happened. I remember back in 2004 when Bush won. I thought how could he win? He's fucked up so many times, he's gonna fuck us up worse. Whatta ya know? Look where we are.

So what is your solution? Or our solution? You're saying there's no point to vote? I don't mean the presidential election but voting in general? You're saying it's all a scam and it's useless to vote?

I don't disagree with some of the things you said, but I also don't think the solution is to ignore it. Just because we've had some corrupt government doesn't mean we can never have non-corrupt government. Or does it?

Also, how do you know that "not much will change"? In other words, how can you tell what's going to happen in the future? What is it about your brain, that my brain doesn't have, that allows you to do that?

FiveB247x

Actually, the saying should go - if you don't pay taxes, then don't bitch... voting is arbitrary. But if you're picking up the bill, then you can complain for what you receive.

Voting doesn't change much. If the people don't continue to participate in the democratic process, after voting, then you're not doing your job as a citizen. This is what really causes the breakdown of our system. It's the reason private interests run DC and business lobbying has more power than the citizens.

blondieblue227 wrote:

don't vote = don't bitch

mammasan

FiveB247x wrote:

I'll be glad when the US election is over with. The portion of the population that actually decides to pay attention (briefly) of what goes on in the nation will crawl back under their rock or stick their heads back into the sand. I got some sad news for everyone, no matter who wins, not much will change. If the Reps win, we'll continue many of our faulty policies and if the Dems win, we'll make a small shift back towards centrist policies. In short, we won't fix any of our problems - all we will do is in a minute way, attempt to band-aid the effects of our problems - not the causes. Elections in the US are like the Super Bowl, everyone shows up to watch and pretends they watched the entire season when in reality they didn't, they merely just showed up on one day and the following will go back to their routine. Whether its wars in foreign lands, the economy or the price of oil, houses or goods, it is very apparent to most of the nation that these things are very contrived and man-made causes. Price gouging and self created problems due to greed and tyranny are what plagues this nation and the population just doesn't care enough or long enough to bother to realistically fix it. You reap what you sow in life, so the population can reap it as they have their hand on the switch to stop such things, but just don't. I feel no sympathy nor should anyone in this nation - it's all our own doing and no one is innocent. Our nation is not a beacon of freedom, democracy or any of the other great things we were founded upon, in fact it represents much worse things that go against the tenets we were created. It's the sad reality no one wants to admit or face. So come Election, pull your lever, but know full well it won't change anything significant or important. Your government has abandoned you and auctioned off your future and safety to the highest bidder, but people are too weak and uncaring to do anything about it. Everyone's more concerned about picking sides and being designated to a particular party or belief, compared to actually fixing problems and when that happens, you have no one to blame but yourself. But keep voting for the 2 major parties, being an enabler always helps.

Great post and I completely agree.

stuckinline

People Have the Power


I was dreaming in my dreaming
of an aspect bright and fair
and my sleeping it was broken
but my dream it lingered near
in the form of shining valleys
where the pure air recognized
and my senses newly opened
I awakened to the cry
that the people / have the power
to redeem / the work of fools
upon the meek / the graces shower
it's decreed / the people rule

The people have the power
The people have the power
The people have the power
The people have the power

Vengeful aspects became suspect
and bending low as if to hear
and the armies ceased advancing
because the people had their ear
and the shepherds and the soldiers
lay beneath the stars
exchanging visions
and laying arms
to waste / in the dust
in the form of / shining valleys
where the pure air / recognized
and my senses / newly opened
I awakened / to the cry

Refrain

Where there were deserts
I saw fountains
like cream the waters rise
and we strolled there together
with none to laugh or criticize
and the leopard
and the lamb
lay together truly bound
I was hoping in my hoping
to recall what I had found
I was dreaming in my dreaming
god knows / a purer view
as I surrender to my sleeping
I commit my dream to you

Refrain

The power to dream / to rule
to wrestle the world from fools
it's decreed the people rule
it's decreed the people rule
LISTEN
I believe everything we dream
can come to pass through our union
we can turn the world around
we can turn the earth's revolution
we have the power
People have the power ...

decides2dream

i'll be glad when it's over and we hopefully have a new president who actually wants to work on our country, our faults and set in motion some much needed change.


i'll also be glad to see it over to at least minimize the comments of many who seem to think they know exactly how others think, and why they make the choices they do and sure.....to see the phrase 'mindless sheep' get less type-time.

blondieblue227

I grew up in Williamsburg near the historic triangle. It was reinforced over and over what people went thru in those days to form our government. While I understand what the OP is saying, I will always vote because I remember what I was taught in elementary class. Not only remember but it's in my heart somehow.

FiveB247x

I'm not necessarily advocating for people to not vote; but I am saying if you do vote for the two major parties, you continue feeding the problem and if you don't participate in our democracy besides voting, your vote doesn't really mean all that much because as we see on a regular basis, government and business are making decisions for their benefit and well-being, not the citizens.

blondieblue227 wrote:

I grew up in Williamsburg near the historic triangle. It was reinforced over and over what people went thru in those days to form our government. While I understand what the OP is saying, I will always vote because I remember what I was taught in elementary class. Not only remember but it's in my heart somehow.

DOSW

What you're describing is the capitalist system. Why would business ever make choices for the citizens and not for their own profit? The whole point of a business is to make profit. The government often makes decisions based on the highest bidder, true. That's definitely a problem. But the pressure to get reelected means that the legislators have to be accountable to their people, too, to a certain extent.

So are you knocking capitalism? I'm not sure. I don't really think anyone is going to the polls expecting some sort of massive shift in our political philosophy like you think they are. People are going because they want a strong leader who they can look up to, or they want health care, or they want a tax cut, or they want (or don't want) a black man in office for the first time. That's the kind of change they're voting for.

You identify real problems, definitely. But those problems will never fully go away in a capitalistic society no matter what you do.

FiveB247x

I'm not describing the capitalist system - it's more of the after effect of the capitalist system being corrupted by greed in accordance with government oversight (or lack their of). If the citizens did their part and kept the government in check on this fact (keep them working for them, rather than just to be re-elected or for business interests), we'd see checks and balances or a more equitable society (politically, socially, economically). But instead, business and government rule the roost, the citizens stand by and do nothing. This is what you call a broken system - power by a few, unchecked and unchanging. All signs point to the system only getting worse (ie remaining the same), compared to better. If switching the names and faces is "change" the american people want, then sure that's accomplished on elections day, but in reality and in practice, the rest remains the same.

DOSW wrote:

What you're describing is the capitalist system. Why would business ever make choices for the citizens and not for their own profit? The whole point of a business is to make profit. The government often makes decisions based on the highest bidder, true. That's definitely a problem. But the pressure to get reelected means that the legislators have to be accountable to their people, too, to a certain extent.

So are you knocking capitalism? I'm not sure. I don't really think anyone is going to the polls expecting some sort of massive shift in our political philosophy like you think they are. People are going because they want a strong leader who they can look up to, or they want health care, or they want a tax cut, or they want (or don't want) a black man in office for the first time. That's the kind of change they're voting for.

You identify real problems, definitely. But those problems will never fully go away in a capitalistic society no matter what you do.

Ms. Haiku

FiveB247x wrote:

I'll be glad when the US election is over with. The portion of the population that actually decides to pay attention (briefly) of what goes on in the nation will crawl back under their rock or stick their heads back into the sand. I got some sad news for everyone, no matter who wins, not much will change. If the Reps win, we'll continue many of our faulty policies and if the Dems win, we'll make a small shift back towards centrist policies. In short, we won't fix any of our problems - all we will do is in a minute way, attempt to band-aid the effects of our problems - not the causes. Elections in the US are like the Super Bowl, everyone shows up to watch and pretends they watched the entire season when in reality they didn't, they merely just showed up on one day and the following will go back to their routine. Whether its wars in foreign lands, the economy or the price of oil, houses or goods, it is very apparent to most of the nation that these things are very contrived and man-made causes. Price gouging and self created problems due to greed and tyranny are what plagues this nation and the population just doesn't care enough or long enough to bother to realistically fix it. You reap what you sow in life, so the population can reap it as they have their hand on the switch to stop such things, but just don't. I feel no sympathy nor should anyone in this nation - it's all our own doing and no one is innocent. Our nation is not a beacon of freedom, democracy or any of the other great things we were founded upon, in fact it represents much worse things that go against the tenets we were created. It's the sad reality no one wants to admit or face. So come Election, pull your lever, but know full well it won't change anything significant or important. Your government has abandoned you and auctioned off your future and safety to the highest bidder, but people are too weak and uncaring to do anything about it. Everyone's more concerned about picking sides and being designated to a particular party or belief, compared to actually fixing problems and when that happens, you have no one to blame but yourself. But keep voting for the 2 major parties, being an enabler always helps.

Where do you volunteer? Where do you donate your time and money? Not once did you mention what you are doing to change what you find unacceptable.

I'll vote, and it's not just because when I was in my early 20's my dad threatened to disown me if I didn't vote. If I didn't vote my dead grandpa would probably slap me upside the head in a nightmare.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE to vote, and I even voted for an independent party candidate a couple times. LOVE LOVE LOVE to vote. I look forward to it like Christmas.

DOSW

Ms. Haiku wrote:

Where do you volunteer? Where do you donate your time and money? Not once did you mention what you are doing to change what you find unacceptable.

I'll vote, and it's not just because when I was in my early 20's my dad threatened to disown me if I didn't vote. If I didn't vote my dead grandpa would probably slap me upside the head in a nightmare.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE to vote, and I even voted for an independent party candidate a couple times. LOVE LOVE LOVE to vote. I look forward to it like Christmas.

Yes, and I'd be curious to know what specifically the OP thinks we should do. He or she seems to think that greed and power abuse will magically go away if we "kept the government in check," as vague as that is. But that's how it will always be. If you want order, you need a government. And in a government, there needs to be a certain amount of people who wield power. And power corrupts. Voting for a third party is never going to change that... and probably nothing will.

Ms. Haiku

DOSW wrote:

Yes, and I'd be curious to know what specifically the OP thinks we should do. He or she seems to think that greed and power abuse will magically go away if we "kept the government in check," as vague as that is. But that's how it will always be. If you want order, you need a government. And in a government, there needs to be a certain amount of people who wield power. And power corrupts. Voting for a third party is never going to change that... and probably nothing will.

Something else will never change - people out there willing to do something.

Just out of curiosity I took a gander at the OPs website, and it's possible the OP was/is involved with Amnesty International. Yippee for OP! I wrote many letters for Amnesty International, and even attended a conference many many many moons ago. However, even with that little effort I felt like I was doing something substantial - that with others around me we could hold people responsible. I still believe it. At that time I was reading books by those who sacrificed a lot for change. It was inspiring and scary at the same time, quite frankly, what people have gone through, and what they did to change what affects them. How I donate my resources for change is different now, but I haven't lost belief in the "impossible."

ECM

One of the biggest powers a president has is appointing Supreme Court Justices...

catefrances

dont blame me, i voted for kodos

Austicman

catefrances wrote:

dont blame me, i voted for kodos

NO WAY!!! KANG '08!!!!!!!!!!!!

catefrances

Austicman wrote:

NO WAY!!! KANG '08!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES WAY!!! im going with the girl.

Austicman

Thats not enough we need more asbestos MORE ASBESTOS!! MORE ASBESTOS!!!

catefrances

we are simply exchanging long protein strands. if you can think of a better way id like to hear it

angelica

FiveB247x wrote:

I'll be glad when the US election is over with. The portion of the population that actually decides to pay attention (briefly) of what goes on in the nation will crawl back under their rock or stick their heads back into the sand. I got some sad news for everyone, no matter who wins, not much will change. If the Reps win, we'll continue many of our faulty policies and if the Dems win, we'll make a small shift back towards centrist policies. In short, we won't fix any of our problems - all we will do is in a minute way, attempt to band-aid the effects of our problems - not the causes. Elections in the US are like the Super Bowl, everyone shows up to watch and pretends they watched the entire season when in reality they didn't, they merely just showed up on one day and the following will go back to their routine. Whether its wars in foreign lands, the economy or the price of oil, houses or goods, it is very apparent to most of the nation that these things are very contrived and man-made causes. Price gouging and self created problems due to greed and tyranny are what plagues this nation and the population just doesn't care enough or long enough to bother to realistically fix it. You reap what you sow in life, so the population can reap it as they have their hand on the switch to stop such things, but just don't. I feel no sympathy nor should anyone in this nation - it's all our own doing and no one is innocent. Our nation is not a beacon of freedom, democracy or any of the other great things we were founded upon, in fact it represents much worse things that go against the tenets we were created. It's the sad reality no one wants to admit or face. So come Election, pull your lever, but know full well it won't change anything significant or important. Your government has abandoned you and auctioned off your future and safety to the highest bidder, but people are too weak and uncaring to do anything about it. Everyone's more concerned about picking sides and being designated to a particular party or belief, compared to actually fixing problems and when that happens, you have no one to blame but yourself. But keep voting for the 2 major parties, being an enabler always helps.

I'm with you and mammasan! Great post!

You hit the nail on the head...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

What I like about you, FiveB, is that you have always advocated problem-solving, which the current illusory options are not about....even when they give the impression of such...

I've personally dropped out of these illusory hierarchical systems. People continue to buy into polarity, and perpetuation of what we have, missing the forest for the trees. Someone points to the moon, and they see the finger, and take that to be enough.

And still, it heartens me when I see others who see beyond that. Where exists the ability to see beyond black/white and the illusions, there exists realism, real hope and potential TRUE vision. Only with this comes actual resolution.

Rhinocerous Surprise

We must move forwards, not backwards; upwards, not forwards; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

Austicman

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

We must move forwards, not backwards; upwards, not forwards; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

Thats what I'm talking about!!

You know it could be worse. In Australia its complusory to vote. You get fined if you don't. So you HAVE to vote for the Giant Douche or a Turd Sandwich. Not that I'm complining. At least you get a leader that the majority of the population voted for.

FiveB247x

I'll be more than happy to share some of my personal information for the sake of appeasing some posters, but in all honesty, it is not the point whatsoever. As a citizen, it is our duty to vote and participate in government. Stay aware, advocate beliefs and the general well-being of our system in all aspects of society. Some choose to attend protests or rallys, others write letters to congressmen, others donate or volunteer, others educate or spread a specific message or belief or simply to stay informed - all of them are viable solutions and ways to participate in our government.

As I told a friend today, Thomas Jefferson never picked up a gun to shoot a British Redcoat, yet his ideas and writings were just as influencial as those who did. There's a million ways to participate and make a difference, just pick one that you like, enjoy or feel strongly about. There's no one correct way to participate and to allude to such things is merely a cop-out to divert attention from the main point - that as citizens, we have a responsibility, just as our leaders, to keep our nation on the right path it was created upon.

As for me, I work in the non-profit field and have for most of my adult working life (by choosing). Besides that, I donate somewhat frequently, am always staying informed on current events as well as the fact that I enjoy writing and discussing politics.