universal health care for U.S.

pickupyourwill
pickupyourwill Posts: 3,135
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
right now I'm all for it, but would like to be better informed on the details. what does everyone think of this issue? yay or nay?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    Universal health care comes with high taxes and, obviously, a minimum of fraud and public money wasted.
    Depends on your values I guess.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Get rid of health insurance and a major part of the problem will be fixed.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Kann wrote:
    Universal health care comes with high taxes and, obviously, a minimum of fraud and public money wasted.
    Depends on your values I guess.


    As far as the high taxes go isn't it kind of equal. I mean I live in Canada and pay higher taxes than Americans would, but I have seen some news stories about how much you can end up paying for health insurance in the US and that is pretty steep also.
  • gabers
    gabers Posts: 2,787
    I was watching a documentary recently and a man from Germany was being interviewed. He revealed that he made around 40,000 euros a year and paid less in taxes than the average American in the same income bracket. Germany has universal health care. It goes to show when you shift your priorities from meddling in world affairs and deploying troops throughout the globe to taking care of your own how easy universal health care can be.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    know1 wrote:
    Get rid of health insurance and a major part of the problem will be fixed.

    now we're talking. insurance as a whole really.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    As far as the high taxes go isn't it kind of equal. I mean I live in Canada and pay higher taxes than Americans would, but I have seen some news stories about how much you can end up paying for health insurance in the US and that is pretty steep also.

    Well it's obviously always the same problem : if you're young and healthy you might not want to pay high taxes for a service you don't use. In the end, after a few years, you might end up getting back what you paid in health services but until then what you see is money going from your paycheck to that cancer patient in his hospital room there.
    This type of system is based on solidarity (forced solidarity some will say), like I said it depends on your values.
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    None of the costs of healthcare outweigh the benefits. The lack of universal health care is one of the biggest problems facing America right now...

    Taxes actually wouldn't be that much higher... the amount the government wastes on healthcare spending right now is massive, and an efficient universal healthcare program could get damn close to actually reducing taxes. The fact that there are so many uninsured Americans actually raises the cost of healthcare itself because the uninsured push up the cost of publicly subsidized health insurance like Medicare.

    I'm not saying that a universal system would necessarily mean less taxes, but the actual expenses of it are grossly inflated by critics.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Kann wrote:
    Well it's obviously always the same problem : if you're young and healthy you might not want to pay high taxes for a service you don't use. In the end, after a few years, you might end up getting back what you paid in health services but until then what you see is money going from your paycheck to that cancer patient in his hospital room there.
    This type of system is based on solidarity (forced solidarity some will say), like I said it depends on your values.

    I don't know I am young and healthy but even so I think it would be extremely short sighted not to have health insurance. I mean sure the odds of me getting really sick are lower than someone older, but there is also the "you never know" factor like you never know when a drunk guy might crash into your car or you never know when you might slip and fall down some stairs. Purely for those cases I think having health insurance is a good idea.

    I would also think that the fact that everyone has insurance would probably help to minimize the amount of people walking around with undiagnosed contagious diseases.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    fuck no. worst idea ever. standing in long lines. not being able to choose who I go to. higher taxes. tons of red tape. fuck that fuck that fuck that.

    ever been to the DMV?
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    fuck no. worst idea ever. standing in long lines. not being able to choose who I go to. higher taxes. tons of red tape. fuck that fuck that fuck that.

    ever been to the DMV?


    Why would you not be able to choose who you go to? I live in Canada and I am not forced by anyone to go to a doctor I don't want to.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Why would you not be able to choose who you go to? I live in Canada and I am not forced by anyone to go to a doctor I don't want to.

    do you get to pick and choose any doctor you want?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Which leads me to the question....who here actually has first hand experience of being cared for in a socialized health care system?

    hehe
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do you get to pick and choose any doctor you want?


    I can go to any doctor that is accepting patients or any hospital in my provience.
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    jlew24asu wrote:
    fuck no. worst idea ever. standing in long lines. not being able to choose who I go to. higher taxes. tons of red tape. fuck that fuck that fuck that.

    ever been to the DMV?

    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Do some research.
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Which leads me to the question....who here actually has first hand experience of being cared for in a socialized health care system?

    hehe

    Not personally. But I've spoken and heard from many people who have and have heard nothing but good experiences.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I can go to any doctor that is accepting patients or any hospital in my provience.

    I had a long conversation with someone last week on a trip to las vegas. he was from ottawa. he said the long lines were horrible and you didnt get to choose your doctor. you could certainly deny a doctor but once you waited in line, you took the next doctor available.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DOSW wrote:
    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Do some research.
    how am I wrong?
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I had a long conversation with someone last week on a trip to las vegas. he was from ottawa. he said the long lines were horrible and you didnt get to choose your doctor. you could certainly deny a doctor but once you waited in line, you took the next doctor available.


    If you go to a no appointment walk in clinic or the emergency room you pretty much have to take whoever is available. For your family physician/GP type doctor who you make appointments with you can choose whoever you want. Actually I think as far as clinics go if you want a certian doctor you can say so, that just means you might wait longer. As far as the long lines, I think that is more of a function of the relatively small population/tax base in Canada (there is maybe 20 medical schools in all of Canada).
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    If you go to a no appointment walk in clinic or the emergency room you pretty much have to take whoever is available. For your family physician/GP type doctor who you make appointments with you can choose whoever you want. Actually I think as far as clinics go if you want a certian doctor you can say so, that just means you might wait longer. As far as the long lines, I think that is more of a function of the relatively small population/tax base in Canada.

    so in your free health care system, you can have a personal family doctor that appointments can be made with?
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    so in your free health care system, you can have a personal family doctor that appointments can be made with?


    Of course. I personally don't have one at the moment and just use the walk-ins, since I am too lazy to make the effort to find a family doctor. Plus I maybe need a doctor once a year. But I know lots of people who do have them and no one was forced to choose someone they didn't want.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    jlew24asu wrote:
    fuck no. worst idea ever. standing in long lines. not being able to choose who I go to. higher taxes. tons of red tape. fuck that fuck that fuck that.

    ever been to the DMV?

    I live in France and there are no standing lines (It's not because you have universal health care that people spend all day at the doctors, you only go there when you need too) and you get to choose whichever doctor/hospital you want - anywhere in the country - as long as he has a university diploma.
    Higher taxes is right though.
    I don't know I am young and healthy but even so I think it would be extremely short sighted not to have health insurance. I mean sure the odds of me getting really sick are lower than someone older, but there is also the "you never know" factor like you never know when a drunk guy might crash into your car or you never know when you might slip and fall down some stairs. Purely for those cases I think having health insurance is a good idea.

    I would also think that the fact that everyone has insurance would probably help to minimize the amount of people walking around with undiagnosed contagious diseases.

    I realize there is that "you never know", I actually agree with you. I'm just saying some people would rather keep the money. Or that they have such a firm belief in freedom of choice that they would rather have no universal health care than pay taxes.
    And I more than wholeheartedly agree with the contagious diseases, this is a huge problem which will grow if the weather ever gets warmer (and some diseases restricted to the south until now start to go north). Getting people treated quickly and efficiently can be useful.

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