universal health care for U.S.
pickupyourwill
Posts: 3,135
right now I'm all for it, but would like to be better informed on the details. what does everyone think of this issue? yay or nay?
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Depends on your values I guess.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
As far as the high taxes go isn't it kind of equal. I mean I live in Canada and pay higher taxes than Americans would, but I have seen some news stories about how much you can end up paying for health insurance in the US and that is pretty steep also.
now we're talking. insurance as a whole really.
Well it's obviously always the same problem : if you're young and healthy you might not want to pay high taxes for a service you don't use. In the end, after a few years, you might end up getting back what you paid in health services but until then what you see is money going from your paycheck to that cancer patient in his hospital room there.
This type of system is based on solidarity (forced solidarity some will say), like I said it depends on your values.
Taxes actually wouldn't be that much higher... the amount the government wastes on healthcare spending right now is massive, and an efficient universal healthcare program could get damn close to actually reducing taxes. The fact that there are so many uninsured Americans actually raises the cost of healthcare itself because the uninsured push up the cost of publicly subsidized health insurance like Medicare.
I'm not saying that a universal system would necessarily mean less taxes, but the actual expenses of it are grossly inflated by critics.
I don't know I am young and healthy but even so I think it would be extremely short sighted not to have health insurance. I mean sure the odds of me getting really sick are lower than someone older, but there is also the "you never know" factor like you never know when a drunk guy might crash into your car or you never know when you might slip and fall down some stairs. Purely for those cases I think having health insurance is a good idea.
I would also think that the fact that everyone has insurance would probably help to minimize the amount of people walking around with undiagnosed contagious diseases.
ever been to the DMV?
Why would you not be able to choose who you go to? I live in Canada and I am not forced by anyone to go to a doctor I don't want to.
do you get to pick and choose any doctor you want?
hehe
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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I can go to any doctor that is accepting patients or any hospital in my provience.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Do some research.
Not personally. But I've spoken and heard from many people who have and have heard nothing but good experiences.
I had a long conversation with someone last week on a trip to las vegas. he was from ottawa. he said the long lines were horrible and you didnt get to choose your doctor. you could certainly deny a doctor but once you waited in line, you took the next doctor available.
If you go to a no appointment walk in clinic or the emergency room you pretty much have to take whoever is available. For your family physician/GP type doctor who you make appointments with you can choose whoever you want. Actually I think as far as clinics go if you want a certian doctor you can say so, that just means you might wait longer. As far as the long lines, I think that is more of a function of the relatively small population/tax base in Canada (there is maybe 20 medical schools in all of Canada).
so in your free health care system, you can have a personal family doctor that appointments can be made with?
Of course. I personally don't have one at the moment and just use the walk-ins, since I am too lazy to make the effort to find a family doctor. Plus I maybe need a doctor once a year. But I know lots of people who do have them and no one was forced to choose someone they didn't want.
I live in France and there are no standing lines (It's not because you have universal health care that people spend all day at the doctors, you only go there when you need too) and you get to choose whichever doctor/hospital you want - anywhere in the country - as long as he has a university diploma.
Higher taxes is right though.
I realize there is that "you never know", I actually agree with you. I'm just saying some people would rather keep the money. Or that they have such a firm belief in freedom of choice that they would rather have no universal health care than pay taxes.
And I more than wholeheartedly agree with the contagious diseases, this is a huge problem which will grow if the weather ever gets warmer (and some diseases restricted to the south until now start to go north). Getting people treated quickly and efficiently can be useful.
It's not as bad as people make it out, but the more complicated and $$$ the operation (doctor/surgeon expertise) is, the more you have to present (with symptoms) to get a timely procedure undertaken. It all depends on how you present (and with what).
In essence, you do get taken care of quite reasonably, and you're free to pick and choose, and make decisions (unpteenth opinions) throughout the entire system until satisfied.
Whatever drawbacks may be, I would never be comfortable to let an insurance company handle my health. I've heard too many horror stories where you;re left owing tens of thousands of dollars on a technicality. Insurance companies are famous for that.
nobody should be put in the position to be potentially financially ruined for getting sick. Pretty ruthless to steal from sick people.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I guess it matters where you live. what is the population like in your area? I live in a city of 4 million and long lines are just a way of life no matter where I go. I have been to france several times but never to a government run place. regardless, I might have more confidence that your government can run something like UHC better then mine. and I certainly do not want to pay 40% + in taxes for this.
well thats good. but I wasnt suggesting anyone would be forced to see anyone. just that when something like this is free, its first come first serve. thats not something I want when I need a doctor.
It's not 100% first come first serve, they do triage. So if you go to a clinic or an ER and you have a sore finger obviously someone with a major injuries is going to be treated for you. And if you have a regular doctor and you need to see him or her, all you have to do is make an appointment.
I used to live in a small town (like 250k) and it never was a problem at all. I moved to paris a few months ago and it's still not a problem for physicians. I went to an ER in a hospital once here and did have to wait 1-2 hours (it wasn't really serious so I had to wait for several "serious cases" to be taken care of). I really think it's more of a matter of a voluntary policy more than a matter of a competent government. And would the insurance companies that rule the market today accept the idea of uhc?
I just see too many negatives for this to work here. the cost is much too high and in the end, I believe actual patient care will suffer.
Just curious how much would a health insurance plan comparable to what I get for "free" cost in the United States?
I remember a couple of years ago one of the news shows up here was examining health care around the world and they talked to their Washington correspondent (a Canadian Citizen). She had recently had a baby in the US and even with her health insurance the whole thing ended up costing her $15,000-$20,000 because of all the stuff her plan didn’t cover. Stories like that make me wonder if universal health care really would cost more.
Overall, if the U.S. created any kind of UHC system, the biggest beneficiary would be the Canadian public. Once the Canadian doctors practising in the States are faced with a similar situation down there, the incentive to stay is gone and they all come home - no more line ups and no more waiting lists. As long as our doctors keep leaving to pursue virtually unlimited incomes in a profit driven health care system, not much will change - out of reach medicine for a huge number of Americans and a middle of the road health care system in Canada.
You are not your job.
You are not how much money you have in the bank.
You are not the car you drive.
You are not the contents of your wallet.
You are not your fucking khakis.
Actually the number of doctors leaving Canada each year is fairly small and the number who return to Canada is actually higher. Check out this link:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071025/doctors_canada_071025/20071025?hub=TopStories
I really think the biggest problem is that we have a fairly small population and a huge area. So places like Manitoba only have one medical school for the whole province (or Alberta which only has 2. When you consider that more and more doctors are retiring if the new doctors can't fill the need there will be a problem. Plus I hear all the time about people who are super smart but can't get into medical school because there are not enough spaces. I think trying to create more doctors at home is a way more efficient solution than to try and compete with American salary rates.
My aunt an uncle had insurance through his work (a machinist)... My aunt works fulltime for a small office that doesn't offer health insurance. About 9 months ago, my uncles company got bought out, and the new owners cut back on EVERYTHING (vacation time, overtime, etc.). About 6 months ago, my uncle had a heart attack and had to have bypass surgery. About a month ago, the employer sent a memo saying as of Jan 1st they are discontinuing health insurance. They don't make much money, but are above the max for any state/federal help, and with my uncle's recent history, not one insurance company with take them on.
So as of Jan 1st, they will not have health insurance until one of them finds a job that offers it... even then, I'm sure his pre-existing condition of his recent bypass surgery will allow the new insurer to basically not cover any heart related needs he may need in the future.
Also, my wife is pregnant with our first child due in January... we are insured through her work policy (cheaper than mine) with Blue Shield of Northeastern NY... With her doctor's blessing, we are considering traveling out of the area for christmas, so I called Blue Shield to see how the coverage would work if she went into labor while we were out of town... it is a $1000 deductable, and they only cover 70%... I don't get that... Blue Cross and Blue Shield are national companies, why can't your normal coverage extend anywhere they cover? I can see a small regional insurer, but a national company like Blue Shield? That doesn't make sense to me.
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