Clinton, Edwards, Obama, won't rule out Iraq presence before 2013

Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
edited September 2007 in A Moving Train
Anyone here concerned about that?

I know calling conservatives hatemongers is so much more fun...but i find it interesting there's no outrage over their failure to call for an "end to this war"
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    I don't understand where this comes from. I thought the Dems were on the side of most Americans who want to end our occupation of Iraq.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • Bu2 wrote:
    I don't understand where this comes from. I thought the Dems were on the side of most Americans who want to end our occupation of Iraq.

    The Dems and Reps don't know where most Americans are. Well they do, but they don't really care.

    We as average people have much more in common than they'd have us believe, but division is where the power is. Keep them thinking one side hates america and wants the terrorists to win, keep the other side thinking they are a bunch of racists, sexists, homophobes and hatemongers...see how far that takes us...

    i don't like any candidate running for either party...and i know i'm not the only one.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • i don't like any candidate running for either party...and i know i'm not the only one.

    I agree completely. This election shows clearly that the average American citizen truly has no say in the presidential race. Sure, we get to choose which dipshit with money and influence we hate the least out of a group of dipshits, but that isnt real power. I sometimes wish i still had the beliefs about democracy i had when i was a wee lad in school.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Sounds like a good reason to vote for Ron Paul.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • I think they want us out A.S.A.P., but understand George W. fucked Iraq and we are taking responsibility for paying the child support.. I'm pretty sure Obama wants troops coming home in '08, but understands WE are responsible for our fuck up until atleast 2012. As badly as I disagree with this war, we could only screw more people over if we did a complete withdrawel right now.

    Lets be realistic, people. Dubya will be long gone, but he fucked us over until atleast 2013. We are responsible for that mess and will have to pay for it with many more lives. Sure we could save more American lives, but at the cost of a chaos that we are responsible for.. can you live with that?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Sure we could save more American lives, but at the cost of a chaos that we are responsible for.. can you live with that?

    Yes. Gladly. We need to get the fuck out today.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • I think they want us out A.S.A.P., but understand George W. fucked Iraq and we are taking responsibility for paying the child support.. I'm pretty sure Obama wants troops coming home in '08, but understands WE are responsible for our fuck up until atleast 2012. As badly as I disagree with this war, we could only screw more people over if we did a complete withdrawel right now.

    Lets be realistic, people. Dubya will be long gone, but he fucked us over until atleast 2013. We are responsible for that mess and will have to pay for it with many more lives. Sure we could save more American lives, but at the cost of a chaos that we are responsible for.. can you live with that?

    Why single out 2012 or 2013?

    Iraq will be a screwed up land for a long l-o-n-g time ... 2012 is just a page in the calendar for them ...

    ... i do think you touch on something with the indication that most moderate thinking people understand that we have created a shithole over there, and such "moral" folk have a hard time just bailing on a mistake that means other peoples lives.

    i'm torn between staying and leaving myself.
    my head says we should stay, but my heart says we should pack it up.

    leaving will work better for "them", whoeve they who come to power eventualy are.
    unfortunately, for us, leaving will probably mean a much worse middle east for america... and a significant decline in oil flowing to america.

    yay!
    we're fucked either way.
    woo hoo!

    and i agree ... Ron Paul.
    Though, i doubt that even he can truly save us now.
    Seems the proud american ship is sinking, in my book.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Bu2 wrote:
    I don't understand where this comes from. I thought the Dems were on the side of most Americans who want to end our occupation of Iraq.
    It comes from the candidates themselves ...

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=259266
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    hippiemom wrote:
    It comes from the candidates themselves ...

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=259266

    I knew that's what they said this week, HM, I'm just wondering how Obama could suddenly say he agrees with keeping a large number of troops over there until 2013. I wonder where he got this new idea, and why he is suddenly pushing it.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • jeffbr wrote:
    Sounds like a good reason to vote for Ron Paul.

    the entire world being blown up by the most god-forsaken weapon, and there's only two people left on earth....one person who has no interest in politics, and the only other survivor is ron paul, and somehow he manages an election...that's the only reason to vote for ron paul...

    probably the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections...but at least you people have your passion :D
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    probably the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections...but at least you people have your passion :D

    The worst candidate in the history of presidential elections is just finishing his second term as President thanks to a nation of retards voting for one of their own.

    At least Ron Paul is a man of principle - something sorely lacking in politics these days.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    jeffbr wrote:
    The worst candidate in the history of presidential elections is just finishing his second term as President thanks to a nation of retards voting for one of their own.

    At least Ron Paul is a man of principle - something sorely lacking in politics these days.

    The same could said about Dennis Kucinich.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • ADogNamedPilateADogNamedPilate Texas, USA Posts: 291
    "It's a huge shit sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite."
    Unless you are a lucky European...
    Austin City Limits - Oct 04, 2009
  • The Dems and Reps don't know where most Americans are. Well they do, but they don't really care.

    We as average people have much more in common than they'd have us believe, but division is where the power is. Keep them thinking one side hates america and wants the terrorists to win, keep the other side thinking they are a bunch of racists, sexists, homophobes and hatemongers...see how far that takes us...

    i don't like any candidate running for either party...and i know i'm not the only one.

    Which is why I can't stand the pro-war or anti-war nobs.
    A restaurant with a smoking section is like a swimming pool with a pissing section
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    g under p wrote:
    The same could said about Dennis Kucinich.

    Peace


    you can have principles and still be wrong
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    Anyone here concerned about that?

    I know calling conservatives hatemongers is so much more fun...but i find it interesting there's no outrage over their failure to call for an "end to this war"

    because its a scam...do not vote for these people! they have campaigned for millions upon millions of dollars while abandoning there current jobs to do this...if they cared so much about you and your country..the world...where you live..they would wait to run for president once their job in the senate is done...but they are career politicians that will make decisions that won't jeopardize their image...

    this means

    NO CHANGE. EVER. SAME LINEUP...UP AND DOWN...IN AND OUT....

    and its a downward spiral.


    look at toehr candidates...not jsut the ones they throw down your throat...and dont let anyone tell you...A VOTE IS WASTED..

    no vote for anyone is wasted unless you know in your heart you are not voting fro the person you believe, but rather the person they have told you has the best shot..
  • [...]ron paul[...]

    probably the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections...but at least you people have your passion :D

    what is your beef with him exactly?
    i'd like you to spell it out, and not get all shouty and witty.
    just make some valid points and explain exactly how & why the man is such a bad choice.

    the only position he has that i am remotely troubled by is his stance that abortion rights are not a federal power, but a state power ... and truthfuly, he is probably right about that ... it just sucks for girls in conservative states who got knocked up and regret it.

    so what scares you?
    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • what is your beef with him exactly?
    i'd like you to spell it out, and not get all shouty and witty.
    just make some valid points and explain exactly how & why the man is such a bad choice.

    the only position he has that i am remotely troubled by is his stance that abortion rights are not a federal power, but a state power ... and truthfuly, he is probably right about that ... it just sucks for girls in conservative states who got knocked up and regret it.

    so what scares you?
    ;)

    he's someone that makes conservative college students, who's prime objective in life is to be liked, and seek the approval of others that they see as intellectually superior, get weak in the knees over.

    that's why he's funny. it's also why you're funny.

    shouty, witty...whatever...that's reality.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • he's someone that makes conservative college students, who's prime objective in life is to be liked, and seek the approval of others that they see as intellectually superior, get weak in the knees over.

    that's why he's funny. it's also why you're funny.

    shouty, witty...whatever...that's reality.

    so you dislike a candidate because he gives his supporters a sense of satisfaction?

    I can't tell if you are a fool,
    or just foolish in the way you express yourself.

    take a deep breath and try to explain using concrete examples of Ron Paul's stated POLICY objectives \ platform or hell even his personal agenda ...

    ... but for godsake address the man not his followers.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • okay so just because democrats are more adamant about ending this war doesn't mean they're all dying to pull us out immediately. we fucked a country up BADLY. we removed their leader, dissected their governmental infrastructure, and COMPLETELY changed a way of life that had remained relatively unchanged for a looooooong time. yeah, we need to get out of there because soldiers and civilians alike are dying....no shit, i'm glad people realize this is a bit of an issue....but WE destroyed a nation that had done nothing to be attacked--much less fucked over and occupied--and WE have to fix it. if you can live with a full immediate withdrawal, good for you; words fail to express my admiration for how compassionate and humane you must be to be completely okay with the slaughter that would follow a full withdrawal at this time. nice to know the only lives you find valuable are those born under a red white and blue flag.
    Do you see the way that tree bends?
    Does it inspire?
    Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
    A lesson to be applied.

    Best night of my life. . .
    Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.

    myspace.com/justonemorebottle
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    jamtemplechains - sorry dude, yr wrong

    we didn't wipe him out the first go around because he agreed to do certain things...if he did, we had the right to attack again.

    he never stopped.

    after that, the UN passed 17 resolutions, which nobody acted on. we had UN support to attack again, etc. also, all the dems voted for it

    it was the only place in the world where we were being fired on (our planes)

    before we attacked, gave him one more chance.

    sounds like we were more than fair before getting rid of the bastard
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb wrote:
    sounds like we were more than fair before getting rid of the bastard

    lets go back to the part where we told the UN weapons inspectors to get out of Baghdad, because we didn't care if they weren't finding wmds ...

    ... that was fair, how?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    go read the speech.

    the wmd thing was ONE SENTENCE out of the whole thing...bush also said it was info from the british...

    soooooooo much more going on than the wmd..

    saddam had a chance to come clean..he kept quiet.

    i mean everyone else signed on..why is it bush's fault?

    same info, everyone agreed. the libs now get to say "we would have never done it"

    what a crock..they had a chance to vote on it, they supported it. now, THE FLOP...
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Ya know, I'm totally not surpised at the frontrunner Dems weaseling out of getting out Iraq asap. They really don't represent what the people want, do they? After all, this is a two-party system isn't it? Forget about the other parties, as long as the Dems and Reps have control, it doesn't really matter who wins the election, because in the end, nothing really changes. I've realized this after reading an article about it.

    Unless we stop the two-party machine, it will keep spinning and nothing will ever change.
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    jeanwah - now were getting somewhere........

    it's still the best system in the world, but it could use some upgrades.

    my opinion, is that the dems know we need to be over there...have know it...don't forget bro bill had an article of war drawn up against iraq during the monica thing, the dems were all on board then.....then, impeachment.

    that's the thing, at least most all the rep. are sticking to their guns about it. EXCEPT when it might cost some votes, a little backtracking going on with some. all the dems that supported it, say "get out now"...unless they are running for pres, in which it's their 3rd flipflop..."we support it", say "get out now" then "well hell, we gotta stay"

    never forget, it's the people in the army signed up...hell, that's what an army is...they fight wars...the biggest mistake bush made was not going over there with overwhelming force, flatten the place and be done with it.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    810wmb wrote:
    jeanwah - now were getting somewhere........

    it's still the best system in the world, but it could use some upgrades.

    my opinion, is that the dems know we need to be over there...have know it...don't forget bro bill had an article of war drawn up against iraq during the monica thing, the dems were all on board then.....then, impeachment.

    that's the thing, at least most all the rep. are sticking to their guns about it. EXCEPT when it might cost some votes, a little backtracking going on with some. all the dems that supported it, say "get out now"...unless they are running for pres, in which it's their 3rd flipflop..."we support it", say "get out now" then "well hell, we gotta stay"

    never forget, it's the people in the army signed up...hell, that's what an army is...they fight wars...the biggest mistake bush made was not going over there with overwhelming force, flatten the place and be done with it.

    this post i think is a direct link to why people that should be president..will never be.. we need to be more informed on subjects

    i kinda wanna ask..where is this coming from...but i think it will do no good
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    the biggest mistake bush made was not going over there with overwhelming force, flatten the place and be done with it.

    Because that would have really liberated the Iraqies. Let's bring them democracy by fucking wiping them all out.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    not all....just a few!

    hell, saddam killed more of his own than we have even thought about
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb wrote:
    not all....just a few!

    hell, saddam killed more of his own than we have even thought about


    yeah! he killed a lot of people, so that gives us a pass to do the same!
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
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