just curious
robbie
Posts: 883
how many of you still support the iraq war? I mean, I know 20 years from now when your children or grandchildren read about this debacle and ask you how we allowed it to happen, you are going to lie and say you were opposed to it from the beginning, but as of now, how many of you still think this was a terrific idea? the polls still say 30 percent of the country think things are going well in iraq, i cannot imagine who these people are, but 3 out of 10 people think it is still a-ok, and actually going well, so, if you are still out there, could you please go on the record and explain why almost 3,000 dead soldiers, (that died for NOTHING) 22,000 wounded soldiers (wounded for NOTHING), 55,000 dead civilians, a dictatorship turned into a haven for terrorism, a civil war, a hugely empowered IRAN, and a VICTORY for world terrorism by showing the incomitance of the United States, is i good plan?
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http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I'm interested to know why you say this.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Because it's a relatively minor conflict, historically speaking. And the reprecussions from it (both positive and negative) are likely to be fairly negligible.
I'm not saying the Iraq war will be forgotten -- it won't (though the lessons from it certainly may be).
I still support the war. It has been miss-managed, and that is why it has turned into the disaster that it has become. But I still support our efforts.
The policy was right. The administration just wasn't capable of implementing it.
shit, if it was up to the current government our grandchildren will still be DYING in iraq 20 years from now. and regardless of when we leave, i'm pretty sure that the war the United States of America LOST TO TERRORISTS will be read about for a LOOOONG time. if democracy was going to be a beacon to the rest of the middle east, what do you think our complete and utter FAILURE will serve as? thanks to W, and the way he has framed the argument, anything less than a thriving democracy is a WIN for terrorism...... we HAVE TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT NIGHTMARE, or we will still be murdering and dying for NOTHING, but if we leave, W, has made sure that there is no other way to view it as a WIN for terrorism. how can you believe that the "defining moment of our generation" will not be remembered 20 years from now.......? this has weakened the United States in ways we will not realise for many years to come, but what it does for sure is embolden any enemy of the U.S. by PROVING we are incompetent, and unable to win an insurgent war. why would anyone fight us with an army when they know they can beat us and embarrass us without one? terrorism is the only way to defeat the united states, george w. bush has PROVEN this, and if you think that will be forgotten within 20 years, you are delusional.
this war was supposed to be about removing a brutal dictator who killed tens of thousands of people if not more. who had already invaded a neighboring country and wanted to dominate the middle east. and to take away a precieved threat of WMDs so they didnt get into the hands of el queda. which he did have at one point (he used them against women and children)and continually violated weapons inspections and several UN resolutions.
once america got there and took down the government, oops no WMDs were found. ok now what? lets stay and fight the El Queda terrorists, the same organization who attacked us on 9/11.
killed their leader, severly damaged that organization to the point they are gone. ok now what?
we stayed to try and help Iraqis from killing each other and provide money, training, and logistics to a newly democraticly elected governement.
ever talk to a solider who spent a few years there? I have. one even posted on this board. many sunni and shiites live in complete peace. many good things happen in Iraq. all you hear about is the negative things happening in the meida. why? it brings ratings. media is only concerned about high ratings.
freedom has a chance. rome wasnt built in a day and neither will a country who knows nothing but oppression.
is this war a good idea? not sure. history will answer that. not cnn or msnbc.
you think that little terrorist orginization that attacked us on 9/11 is gone?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
55,000 dead civilians, a dictatorship turned into a haven for terrorism, a civil war, a hugely empowered IRAN
And so, it's worthwhile saying that re-enforced national security in the States, ostensibly to combat the fall out of what's happened in Iraq, is going to have a big effect on the way Americans live their lives. In twenty years time, some people might ask rhetorically, "Was Iraq the war for we gave up our own freedoms, to liberate?"
a dictatorship? where?
USA did not loose any war with terrorists. el queda in iraq has not been an issue since we took out their leader.
this is about sunnis vs shittes.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Since you know so much...like the fact that I'm supposedly going to be lying to my children and grandchildren 20 years from now by stating that I never supported the war...then maybe you should look into your crystal ball again and figure out for yourself why I still support the Iraq war.
You seem pretty good at making assumptions, so it seems logical for me to think that you also have an assumption as to why I still support the Iraq war.
That being the case, I can only conclude that this thread was started in order to bait the "current war supporters" into a "debate"...or more to the point...a game of ridicule and put downs.
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of course not. they may never be completely gone. but are they gone from Iraq? are they severly crippled? do they have a central base of operations? have they attacked the US since 9/11?
not sure where I said they are gone or how that is revelant.
EXACTLY.
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my only hope is that something does in fact come to the american soil, so us patriots will rise again and protect these neo cowards.
while that may very well be true, the president of the united states has been telling the world for years that if we leave iraq before we achieve complete victory, it will be a win for the terrorists....... therefore the world will view our departure from this nightmare as a win for the terrorists. and so will the terrorists....... and so will history.........even 20 years from now............
But that would take half the fun out of things.
Ok.
:rolleyes:
No. The only losers in the Iraq war are the Iraqi people. Incidentally, the only losers in pre-war Iraq were the Iraqi people as well.
I'm not sure how a failure of Iraqi democracy is "our failure". That would destroy the very meaning of democracy.
The "defining moment of our generation" was 9/11 (politically speaking), not the Iraq war.
Anyway, victory is not a measure of perception. It is a measure of accomplishment. The United States accomplished their primary objective in Iraq -- the removal of Saddam Hussein. Whether or not Iraq can be a viable democracy is still very much in question. However, success measured as an improved government or governments for the Iraqi people is not impossible or even unlikely.
:rolleyes:
Do you really believe we are "unable to win"??? Do you really believe that the United States, if it truly wanted to, could not win this war???
The United States has every capability to destroy the insurgency in Iraq. Thankfully, we have not resorted to the tactics necessary for such a defeat, nor are we likely to do so.
"Beat" and "embarrass" are not synonymous.
How has he "proven" this???? How has terrorism defeated the United States in any way???
you dont get it. who gives a fuck what W says. he has to stay strong. he is the commander in chief. over 100,000 american soliders' lives are on him. should he admit defeat because americans havnt begun buying time shares there yet?
we may never fully leave Iraq. we are still in the balkins are we not? in germany? in korea?
terrorists arent the issue in Iraq. settling long standing conflicts between 2 fueding parties is.
if that can be resolved history will see this as a great success and freedom will concour in a country and region that has never seen it.
and I might buy myself a time share.
Awful? Yes. Significant in any historical way? No.
Going from one bad to another bad does not make for compelling history, by default.
Get in line.
"Hugely"??? How so?
That's what people are asking rhetorically now. 20 years from now, they'll be asking where their money went. That's about it.
my original question was how many people still support this war, was i not supposed to respond to a post stating that nobody will read much about the iraq war 20 years from now????? do you really believe that? you thing the ramifications of how poor of an idea this war was will not still be present in 20 years? look, the united states went "all in" on this bet, if a flourishing democracy took hold, it would be remembered in 20 years, hell it would be written about for hundreds of years..'how the middle east became a democratic region thanks to george bush and his glorious war"...... same is true for the reality of this war and its ramifications, we have managed to make everything FAR WORSE in the middle east, and the great power this has given to IRAN, and the message we have sent to all of our enemies is not something that will soon be forgotten. we blew it, and we will pay for it. im sorry if you cannot realise that, but your children and grandchildren will.
In fairness, though, why should someone have to lie about supporting the war from its outset? Because history proved that the war was illegal, immoral, ill-executed and doomed to counter-productive consequences, even failure?
We have the benefit of hindsight, and though I never supported the war, I understand that many people felt, for reasons we might question but can't totally discount, that a humanitarian mission to liberate Iraq might stabilise the middle east. Yes, I am one who always disagreed with this view, but I respect people's opinions: an honourable person will say, in twenty years time, "I supported what I believed was right at the time". One has to accept that. Honesty in maintaining a controversial opinion, in the face of mass disapproval, in some cases carries more virtue, than dishonesty in maintaining a dominant view: this goes for people against the war, in the minority in America in 2003, and also for supporters of that same war, inevitably in a minority of those who can even remember it first-hand, twenty years from now.
Which people, though? Are we just talking about Americans, here? See, that's my point. I'm thinking globally.
I'm just talking about Americans, since the original post was formulated from that perspective.
Globally, the historical reverberations will be lesser or greater depending on each nation's involvement. Obviously, the Iraq War, for Iraqis, will be a very big part of their history. But will Japanese grandchildren or Russian grandchildren focus much on this conflict? Unlikely.