The shit is coming down in Hawaii

krzzzymarykrzzzymary Posts: 458
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
Not sure if you have heard of this but our Governor is a piece of work!

There is this company that built this HUGE Ferry to be operated in Hawaiian waters. (carrying 880 people and around 250 cars)

This company has done everything they could to get around the environmental laws.


It would operate going from Oahu to Maui and Oahu to Kauai.

Well ..... the Department of Transportation exempted them from doing an environmental assessment.

Three little environmental groups filed with the courts a complaint.

The Supreme Court ruled that the DOT errerred in exempting them.

The ferry knowing this went ahead and operated on a weekend (two days before they were scheduled to operate) knowing the courts were closed on the weekend.
On mon. a maui judge slapped them with a temprorary restraining order.

There was FOUR weeks of testimony and in the end the judge ruled the ferry could not operate until a environmental assessment is done.
It was cause harm to the environment that could not be fixed.

I attended many of the court hearings and it was unreal what I was learning going compared to what I was reading in the newspapers and seeing on the news.

Welllllll our lovely "bush like" governor, Linda Lingle has now called a special legislative session to get this "superferry" operating while the environmental assessment is being done.
Im watching live stream right now on
http://www.akaku.org

The senators have come to the other islands to hear testimony.
And everyone that came out to testify was WAY against them running before this environmental assessment or while it is being done.

There has been word that the people behind this superferry company are shady and sneaky.
The big word out now is that it is really going to ultimately be used for military use.

http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1769281028/E20070920070401/index.html


There is soooo much that has been going on with this ..... another interesting thing ...... after the temp. restraining order was put on them they were still going to operate in Kauai.
Well ..... protesters were soooooo active they had to turn around and leave.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qOdzJNjfn4Y

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XP8XS38GoMc

The Governor then went to Kauai to tell the people that the ferry was going to run anyway and here is what is going to happen when it does (the rules put on them when the ferry does come)
She was met with people who heckled her and shouted her down ... It was unbelievable.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RUUAhTHvcM4&mode=related&search

It is actually tearing people apart because you are either on one side or the other.

the three groups who took them to court were
Maui Tomorrow
http://www.maui-tomorrow.org/

Kahului Harbor coalition (I love their website )
http://www.savekahuluiharbor.com/index.php

The Sierra Club
http://www.hi.sierraclub.org/maui/
"You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
Michael Franti
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Thanks much for the info. I had no idea. My brother, his wife and (their son) my nephew live there.

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  • gue_barium wrote:
    Thanks much for the info. I had no idea. My brother, his wife and (their son) my nephew live there.


    what island do they live on?

    people who are not into the environment don't understand why we are against this company.

    it's sad

    what is even sadder is what this governor is doing - people have found a new name for her
    the ferry godmother
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    krzzzymary wrote:
    what island do they live on?

    people who are not into the environment don't understand why we are against this company.

    it's sad

    what is even sadder is what this governor is doing - people have found a new name for her
    the ferry godmother

    Ohau.

    Did I spell it right?

    Close to a national park I can't think of the name of right at the moment.

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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • MakingWavesMakingWaves Posts: 1,293
    Please help me understand how this ferry would hurt the environment? Aren't there privately owned ferry's already making this run? I got the idea that locals were against this because it would put smaller companies out of businees that were running ferry's. Am i wrong about that?

    Also, I worked at a company before the job I have now that had some ties to this ferry being built here in Alabama. Trust me, this thing is not going to be used for military use.
    Seeing visions of falling up somehow.

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  • Please help me understand how this ferry would hurt the environment? Aren't there privately owned ferry's already making this run? I got the idea that locals were against this because it would put smaller companies out of businees that were running ferry's. Am i wrong about that?

    Also, I worked at a company before the job I have now that had some ties to this ferry being built here in Alabama. Trust me, this thing is not going to be used for military use.


    Well, Maui is whale sanctuarary and while they will not be operating in the most populated area of whales they still will be going through where there are many many whales.
    They pushed this ferry that it was a HIGH SPEED ferry ..... meaning it goes faster than any other vessel currently operating.

    Plus there are many farmers that are freaked out. They deal with invasive species at it is and this would only be more risk of them dealing with more.

    People on Oahu want it. They have stripped their island of resources already. And Maui and Kauai have things they no longer have.
    It's mostly outer islands that don't want it.


    There is a very very small people only ferry that runs here on Maui to Lanai. But it is nothing even close to the superferry.
    It has nothing to do with other ferry companies.

    In the beginning the head investor and member of board of directors, John Lehman, invested in the company and only invests in military type of things.
    (see above youtube on military ties)
    bragged on how it could be used to transport the stryker brigadde (sp?)
    that they are trying right now to bring to Big Island.
    Big Island doesn't want this.

    People are not against a ferry. They are against the way this company has not complied with Hawaii Environmental Laws.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    i always thought a ferry wouldn't work so well on the islands - the water around there is far from calm. Plus with two major regional carriers - you can fly for relatively cheap (although flying isn't very eco-friendly).
  • MakingWavesMakingWaves Posts: 1,293
    krzzzymary wrote:
    Well, Maui is whale sanctuarary and while they will not be operating in the most populated area of whales they still will be going through where there are many many whales.
    They pushed this ferry that it was a HIGH SPEED ferry ..... meaning it goes faster than any other vessel currently operating.

    Plus there are many farmers that are freaked out. They deal with invasive species at it is and this would only be more risk of them dealing with more.

    People on Oahu want it. They have stripped their island of resources already. And Maui and Kauai have things they no longer have.
    It's mostly outer islands that don't want it.


    There is a very very small people only ferry that runs here on Maui to Lanai. But it is nothing even close to the superferry.
    It has nothing to do with other ferry companies.

    In the beginning the head investor and member of board of directors, John Lehman, invested in the company and only invests in military type of things.
    (see above youtube on military ties)
    bragged on how it could be used to transport the stryker brigadde (sp?)
    that they are trying right now to bring to Big Island.
    Big Island doesn't want this.

    People are not against a ferry. They are against the way this company has not complied with Hawaii Environmental Laws.

    Ok, I see the point now and I would say I agree that they have a very good arguement. They need to comply with all the laws just like your average person would who wanted to run a ferry business.

    As far as the rough waters go, this ferry was designed to withstand the waves found in that area. It is a really cool design actually.

    But if this will be running through a heavy whale populated area I can see why people are so upset. You have changed my mind on this topic.
    Seeing visions of falling up somehow.

    Pensacola '94
    New Orleans '95
    Birmingham '98
    New Orleans '00
    New Orleans '03
    Tampa '08
    New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
    New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
    Fenway Park '18
    St. Louis '22
  • polaris wrote:
    i always thought a ferry wouldn't work so well on the islands - the water around there is far from calm. Plus with two major regional carriers - you can fly for relatively cheap (although flying isn't very eco-friendly).


    Well, according to some reports the ferry isn't going to be eco-friendly either because of the amount of fuel it uses.

    As far as rough waters ..... yes it is built to withstand the big swells.
    However that was one thing the whale experts brought up .... with big swells how can you see whales from the vessel?
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • You have changed my mind on this topic.



    :)
    mahalo!
    :)
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    krzzzymary wrote:
    Well, according to some reports the ferry isn't going to be eco-friendly either because of the amount of fuel it uses.

    As far as rough waters ..... yes it is built to withstand the big swells.
    However that was one thing the whale experts brought up .... with big swells how can you see whales from the vessel?

    you can't ... maybe the use of sonar ... or restrictions on travel during migratory periods ... and major feeding/birthing grounds ...

    in any case - the issue here seems to be again that elected representatives choose to invoke policy for the sake of corporate interests vs. public ... an pattern we are seeing far too often ...

    hawaii should be at the forefront of green policies - much of what it can offer is based on that ...
  • polaris wrote:
    in any case - the issue here seems to be again that elected representatives choose to invoke policy for the sake of corporate interests vs. public ... an pattern we are seeing far too often ...

    hawaii should be at the forefront of green policies - much of what it can offer is based on that ...


    EXACTLY!

    The senators came to the different outer islands this week and I got up and testified and said exactly that.

    It really pisses me off that this information about our GOVERNOR has not come out to national news.

    More than likely the corporate visitor industry is keeping it out of the media.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • Im watching the special legislative session right now on local cable, taking place on Oahu
    http://www.akaku.org
    live stream also

    and they are questioning the dept. of transportation guy who exempted them from the ea

    he sounds like an idiot!
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • Lucky Hawaii living people...

    Keep it sacred...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    krzzzymary wrote:
    Im watching the special legislative session right now on local cable, taking place on Oahu
    http://www.akaku.org
    live stream also

    and they are questioning the dept. of transportation guy who exempted them from the ea

    he sounds like an idiot!

    oh ... i've been to my fair share of public hearings, council meetings, protests, etc... and dude sounds like an idiot probably because he is one ...

    frustrating ... keep up the good fight ... i was there almost a year ago and i plan on going back next year!
  • polaris wrote:
    oh ... i've been to my fair share of public hearings, council meetings, protests, etc... and dude sounds like an idiot probably because he is one ...

    frustrating ... keep up the good fight ...

    UNBELIEVABLE

    and sad

    the bill will probably pass and the ferry will operate while the environmental assessment is being done.

    The committees on FINANCE recommend that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 14 Ayes: Representative(s) Lee, Brower, Chong, Har, Magaoay, Manahan, Mizuno, Nakasone, Rhoads, Sagum, Awana, Meyer, Ward; Ayes with reservations: Representative(s) M. Oshiro; 3 Noes: Representative(s) Carroll, Hanohano, Tokioka; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Belatti.

    10/25/2007 H The committees on TRANSPORTATION recommend that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 11 Ayes: Representative(s) Souki, Nishimoto, Evans, Har, Lee, Nakasone, Meyer, Pine; Ayes with reservations: Representative(s) McKelvey, Sonson, Takamine; 0 Noes: none; and 2 Excused: Representative(s) Luke, Takumi.

    10/25/2007 H Reported from TRN/FIN (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 2), recommending passage on Second Reading and placement on the calendar for Third Reading.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    krzzzymary wrote:
    UNBELIEVABLE

    and sad

    the bill will probably pass and the ferry will operate while the environmental assessment is being done.

    The committees on FINANCE recommend that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 14 Ayes: Representative(s) Lee, Brower, Chong, Har, Magaoay, Manahan, Mizuno, Nakasone, Rhoads, Sagum, Awana, Meyer, Ward; Ayes with reservations: Representative(s) M. Oshiro; 3 Noes: Representative(s) Carroll, Hanohano, Tokioka; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Belatti.

    10/25/2007 H The committees on TRANSPORTATION recommend that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 11 Ayes: Representative(s) Souki, Nishimoto, Evans, Har, Lee, Nakasone, Meyer, Pine; Ayes with reservations: Representative(s) McKelvey, Sonson, Takamine; 0 Noes: none; and 2 Excused: Representative(s) Luke, Takumi.

    10/25/2007 H Reported from TRN/FIN (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 2), recommending passage on Second Reading and placement on the calendar for Third Reading.

    the sad part is that it is soooo believable ... the only recourse is to wait for the next election and make everyone pay ...
  • I feel totally sick to my stomach.

    Not so much about the ferry itself but for that f'n slimy company.
    You would not believe how sly they were in getting by the ea.

    You would understand my being pissed off even more if you saw our governor.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Great... so, now the Mainland meth tweekers who swarm all over Oahu can drag their sorry ass piece of shit cars to litter the roads of other islands, too.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    Great... so, now the Mainland meth tweekers who swarm all over Oahu can drag their sorry ass piece of shit cars to litter the roads of other islands, too.

    That was the exactly what came up in the court hearings...... 22 days worth of testimony ..... which led the Maui judge to rule agains them saying it could cause irreprerable (sp?) damage to the island.

    Dude ..... you wouldn't believe what is going on here. This has totally broken apart the islands.
    It's now Maui and Kauai against Oahu.

    I got up and testified Mon. when the Senators came here to Maui (in front of 300+ people *scared shitless I was* but I did it )

    And the majority of people felt the same way ..... with only 4 people getting up and saying they were for the ferry. The first lady got totally booed and heckled .... you would have died.

    It's gonna suck here.

    Not sure if you can look at those youtube things at work but check them out when you can.
    It's totally radical what is going on here.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    krzzzymary wrote:
    That was the exactly what came up in the court hearings...... 22 days worth of testimony ..... which led the Maui judge to rule agains them saying it could cause irreprerable (sp?) damage to the island.

    Dude ..... you wouldn't believe what is going on here. This has totally broken apart the islands.
    It's now Maui and Kauai against Oahu.

    I got up and testified Mon. when the Senators came here to Maui (in front of 300+ people *scared shitless I was* but I did it )

    And the majority of people felt the same way ..... with only 4 people getting up and saying they were for the ferry. The first lady got totally booed and heckled .... you would have died.

    It's gonna suck here.

    Not sure if you can look at those youtube things at work but check them out when you can.
    It's totally radical what is going on here.
    ...
    Oahu just wants those assholes to leave... what better place than the other islands?
    And when you drive in Oahu... there are a lot of places in the already established cities that should be cleaned up and rehabilitated, than developing the few open spaces left. People go to Hawaii for the natural beauty... why spoil it with housing and commercial developments? If I want to see that shit... I can just drive to San Bernardino.
    and good for you for speaking up.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    krzzzymary wrote:
    I feel totally sick to my stomach.

    Not so much about the ferry itself but for that f'n slimy company.
    You would not believe how sly they were in getting by the ea.

    You would understand my being pissed off even more if you saw our governor.

    I can feel what some of the people of Hawaii must be going, keep updating us.

    I think you have the best signiture I've seen to date. I just saw him in Times Square, NYC 10/6...Norfolk, VA 10/10....Richmond, VA 10/11. Talked to Michael and the band quite a bit and hopefully they'll come back to Florida on my B-day in March 2008 Langerado Festival.

    LOVE AND AFFECTION IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION...Michael Franti

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • thanks so much for your info and links...I'd definitely appreciate updates too, this is way too big of an issue to be ignored.
  • mhterrapin wrote:
    thanks so much for your info and links...I'd definitely appreciate updates too, this is way too big of an issue to be ignored.


    I know
    and

    I don't understand why this isn't on cnn or something of the like

    I even tried to email it to Bill Maher

    I dont care ...... any media other than just our little local one
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • g under p wrote:
    LOVE AND AFFECTION IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION...Michael Franti

    Peace


    Love it!
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
  • The latest

    Superferry bill passes in House
    By MARK NIESSE, The Associated Press
    HONOLULU – At this rate, the Hawaii Superferry will be plying island waters again in no time.

    The state House of Representatives approved a bill Friday that allows the ferry to resume trips from Oahu to Maui and Kauai without having to first complete a study on its potential to harm whales, to spread invasive species or to lead to further urbanization of the islands.

    The House bill passed with only nine “no’’ votes out of the 51-member body.

    Leaders in the House said they’re willing to consider incorporating into their bill operating conditions suggested by the Senate.

    The House bill leaves environmental enforcement up to Gov. Linda Lingle, while the Senate proposal set a few requirements for the ferry and included a provision protecting taxpayers from lawsuits.

    “We have to concede a little, they have to concede a little,’’ said House Speaker Calvin Say, D-St. Louis Heights-Wilhelmina Rise.

    Superferry officials have said the high-speed, 350-foot catamaran could be voyaging between the islands again in two weeks if the bill passes.

    Both the House and Senate measures fall short of environmentalists’ requests for speed limits on the ferry to avoid whale strikes and mandatory vehicle cleanings to remove invasive species. An amendment submitted by Rep. Hermina Morita, D-Hanalei-Kapaa, including those proposals was turned away in a House vote.

    Superferry officials have said either of those conditions would have killed their business plan and forced them to leave Hawaii.

    Morita compared the “arrogance and speed’’ of the Legislature’s action to the Titanic.

    “We are heading toward . . . a metaphoric iceberg,’’ she said. “We are finding a way to circumvent the law.’’

    Lawmakers are trying to pass a bill allowing the Superferry to sail so they can override court rulings that said the boat service couldn’t operate until the state completes an environmental study.

    The House and Senate are not far apart.

    Proposals in both chambers call for the governor to create and enforce environmental rules for the Superferry, provide oversight of the governor’s actions, prohibit the company from suing the state and open an investigation into why the Superferry was granted an exception to Hawaii’s environmental laws.

    But the Senate version has additional provisions forcing the Superferry to apply for a government permit that could set operating conditions while giving some liability protection for whale strikes, to request an observer to assist in avoiding endangered humpback whales, to notify passengers of bans on food and soil transportation, and to inspect vehicles before boarding.

    “What the Senate did was consider the testimony and come up with a good compromise,’’ said Senate President Colleen Hanabusa, D-Nanakuli-Makua. “Everyone seems to be OK with the bill. No one will ever be perfectly happy.’’

    The Senate version also specifies that the lawsuit protection for the state only applies to past actions and leaves the Superferry free to take future legal recourse.

    Superferry officials insisted on this point, and House leadership has agreed to incorporate it into the final bill, which must be finished by the end of the emergency session Wednesday.

    The $300 million Hawaii Superferry project was to start service with a four-story catamaran built to carry up to 866 passengers and 282 vehicles on two daily round trips.

    A second ferry is being built in Mobile, Ala. It is intended to serve the Big Island in 2009.
    "You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb into peace"
    Michael Franti
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