Why I am against the UN mission in Lebanon

El_Kabong

jlew24asu wrote:

when they kidnapped 2 soliders for no reason.

what was it when israel kidnappd 2 civilians, including a doctor?

what is it when israel bulldozes down homes to build more ILLEGAL settlements?

Eva7

jsand wrote:

Pretty funny to me is how you have no grasp of the facts.

1. Israel wasn't occupying any part of Lebanon prior to the start of the recent hostilities. If you're referring to Shebaa farms, that is purportedly Syria's

2. How, exactly, is the kidnapping of soldiers on Israel's own side of the border not a violation of Israel's sovereignty? Or do you just believe that Israel doesn't have any sovereinty, which is belied by this nonsense:

3. "100.000 lebanese civilians have been killed, all the lebanese highways, bridges, civilian infrastructures and towns have been utterly destoyed, rescue and aid groups have been targeted and killed." Really? All the Lebanese highways, bridges, etc. have been destroyed? How did you gather that information? From watching the same clips of one area of Lebanon displayed over and over again on CNN? And where are you getting the 100,000 casualty figure? And please show me the proof of rescue and aid workers being targeted. Please refute this detailed report debunking one of the most recent blood libels against the Jews:

http://www.zombietime.com/fraud/ambulance/

Keep trying.

1- I wasn't talking of prior the start of the recent hostility, but of the occupation of "security strip" by Israel for years until 2000, in response of your supposition that Hezbollah's aim is to destroy Israel
2- because the Hezbollah didn't attack or invade Israel
3 - Pretty much all news given worldwide by the media... but sorry, you're right because I did a mistake, I wrote 100,000 instead of 1,000 (I mistook it with the Iraq war!). forgive me, but does it make a big difference to you? And yes, pretty much all the lebanese infrastructures have been destroyed.
CNN? we don't see it in Italy.
some sources:

Attacks on civilian convoys in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2006/2006-08-07-05.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Marjayoun_convoy
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE180072006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilian_convoys_in_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0804/lebanon2.html
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L11459020.htm

Civilian casualties
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/08/10/lebano13955.htm
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/08/08/lebano13939.htm

Infrastructures (highways, bridges, hospitals, electric power, water):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5303410.stm
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10730
http://www.refintl.org/content/article/detail/9328?PHPSESSID=447d33c54a95ba9
http://gdaeman.blogspot.com/2006/08/lebanon-damage-roads-and-bridges.html
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5689.shtml
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5683.shtml
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-07-lebanon-damage_x.htm
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/1b19e8f4c647f4d817e445f121fd43fe.htm
http://www.focusweb.org/content/view/1023/93/

Also, add that the israeli bombing of an electricity power station at Jiyeh had cause a big oil spill of between 10,000 and 15,000 tons of heavy fuel oil spilled into the Mediterranean Sea, a huge black sea threatening the coastal waters of Syria, Turkey, Cipro and Italy. Italy sent a team of experts in the area that will costs millions to my country. Reply this: why isn't Israel paying for all this in any way?
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2006/2006-08-08-01.asp
http://uruknet.info/?p=m26201
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/ba635e90191e825188f08bc479ff0768.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/07/wmid607.xml
http://www.moroccotimes.com/news/article.asp?id=16986
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/lebanon/000449.php

Eva7

jlew24asu wrote:

when they kidnapped 2 soliders for no reason.

The hidden story of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails

Israel claims its war on Lebanon was triggered by Hizbollah’s capture of two Israeli soldiers, and says it holds only two Lebanese prisoners.

Yet a secret list compiled by the Lebanese authorities, and leaked to the Lebanese newspaper al-Safir, has revealed the names of 67 men known to have been kidnapped by Israel and its allies during 18 years of occupation. Thousands of others are missing.

The most high profile prisoner in Israel is Samir Kuntar, who is serving a life sentence. Kuntar was captured by Israel in 1979 during an operation by a left wing Palestinian group. He was 16 at the time.

Kuntar has been kept out of prisoner exchanges until the Lebanese find the remains of an Israeli air force pilot downed in 1986. The Lebanese have repeatedly stated that the pilot is just one of 17,000 people who went missing over decades of war.

Hizbollah has demanded Kuntar be released in exchange for Israeli soldiers. The resistance is also demanding the return of hundreds of others held secretly by Israel.

The leaked list names those who were witnessed being seized and then identified as having been transferred to Israeli prisons. The majority were seized by Israeli troops or their allies, the right wing Lebanese Forces and Israel’s proxy South Lebanese Army (SLA).

The list gives the dates and locations where the men were seized, followed by verification either by witnesses or newspaper photographs of prisoners.

There is no reason given as to why the men were seized, or whether they are alive or dead. The Israelis have refused to discuss the list, and have given no details on the missing people’s whereabouts, or the locations of their graves.

Those campaigning for the families of the missing fear they were tortured, then killed inside Israel.

There are hopes that some of them might still be alive. Many would now be in their 40s. Of the 67 who have been verified as having been transferred to Israel, 43 were in their early 20s or younger.

In the wake of the 1978 and 1982 Israeli invasions of Lebanon, right wing militias stalked the country seizing young men. They would often disappear without trace, joining the tens of thousands of other victims.

However in some cases witnesses logged details of kidnappings with the Lebanese authorities, and in other cases former militiamen provided secret testimony to the committee that shed light on a policy of transferring captives to Israel.

Fifty five year old Shakeen Asaad was seized at a checkpoint near the Shatilla Palestinian refugee camp in south Beirut in 1982. Nothing was heard of him until his wife identified him in a newspaper photograph. He was one of a group of blindfolded prisoners being marched across the southern border.

In one case, a father and his three sons were kidnapped and transferred.

All the kidnappings follow a similar pattern. Men were seized at checkpoints run by right wing militias, taken either to a military jail or the ministry of defence before being transferred to Israel.

There is no evidence that any of the men were members of left wing parties or nationalist groups. The pattern of abductions was random, in the majority of cases they were stopped by chance.

After the Israelis seized west Beirut in 1982, they handed over control to their allies who took over the Lebanese government. This government was later overthrown in 1984 by an uprising. The only remaining force that remained allied to the US and Israel was the SLA.

The SLA ran a torture centre and prison camp in the southern village of Khiam. The prison, which was recently destroyed by Israeli bombs, was filled with those who resisted the occupation of the south. Its prisoners were liberated when crowds stormed the prison as Israeli troops abandoned their positions in 2000.

Yet many remain unaccounted for. The list of names included many young men taken between 1982 and 1989 as Israelis attempted to coerce young men into the SLA. Those who refused were either beaten or killed.

Fahd Abdel Kareem Bazi, 18, was seized by Israeli troops in March 1985. It is believed he was taken to Israel. There has been no word of him since. Whether he was executed, died under torture or is rotting in an Israeli dungeon is unknown. The Israelis have refused to release any information or cooperate with any investigation.

In the case of 19 year old Mohammad Ali Hawa, his mother was able to visit him in a local jail after he was seized in the southern town of Jezine by the SLA in 1984. He was transferred to another prison inside Israel shortly after and has not been heard of since.

The campaign by the families of the missing has embarrassed the Lebanese government. Protests by the families were often attacked by interior ministry police.

Hizbollah, among others, made a pledge to the families that they would try and free the prisoners. This is one reason why they seized two Israeli soldiers. Yet it is the fate of two soldiers, rather than the hundreds and possibly thousands of Lebanese and Arab prisoners, that makes the headlines.

The truth lies somewhere inside Israel’s prisons.

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=25873&s2=19

rebornFixer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

So will the UN fire back on Israel if they go against the rules of this engagement....

The chances of Israeli troops attacking UN troops are nearly nil.

rebornFixer

Human Tide wrote:

Israel's actions must be seen in the larger context of the conflict. This war was not about a few soldiers or a few rockets.

Which is a more subtle way of saying that "Israel is the only problem here". And you know I disagree with that.

Human Tide

reborncareerist wrote:

Which is a more subtle way of saying that "Israel is the only problem here". And you know I disagree with that.

That's a bunch of bullshit and you know it. I don't express my opinion by dancing around it with subtleties. If I thought Israel was the only problem, I would say it.

VivaPalestina

The problem is Israeli policy:

'The basic tendency of Israeli policy and people is to solve problems by means of force as the be-all and end-all rather than trying diplomatic and political solutions' and to view borders with neighboring Arab states as 'nothing but a function of power relations.' Boas Evron
Ze'ev Sternhell argues that a Zionist tenet is 'never giving up a position or a territory unless one is compelled by superior force.' (Finkelstein xxxiii-xxxiv)

MrBrian

reborncareerist wrote:

The chances of Israeli troops attacking UN troops are nearly nil.

But the chances of them attacking UN troops and putting blame on hezbollah are very high.

They did attack US troops before and blame egypt, they also used terrorism, hitting civilian targets and then blame another country for the attack so the world would side with israel.

So they have a history of doing such things. Why would they not try it again? It's exactly what they need right now.

(the Lavon Affair to start off with)

rebornFixer

MrBrian wrote:

But the chances of them attacking UN troops and putting blame on hezbollah are very high.

They did attack US troops before and blame egypt, they also used terrorism, hitting civilian targets and then blame another country for the attack so the world would side with israel.

So they have a history of doing such things. Why would they not try it again? It's exactly what they need right now.

(the Lavon Affair to start off with)

Why would they need to antagonize Europe and the U.S. right now, exactly? The former in particular ...

MrBrian

reborncareerist wrote:

Why would they need to antagonize Europe and the U.S. right now, exactly? The former in particular ...

well not really antagonize europe, because israel would want to do this without the world knowing that they (israel) did it.

Right now most of the world has a negative view of israel because of (in particular)their actions in lebanon, but if hezbollah were to attack UN soldiers, imagine, israel would be able to say "see, look what they do!" .

So a great strategic move for israel would be to attack the UN forces and blame it on hezbollah, a style of fighting they are historically known for.

Commy

MrBrian wrote:

well not really antagonize europe, because israel would want to do this without the world knowing that they (israel) did it.

Right now most of the world has a negative view of israel because of (in particular)their actions in lebanon, but if hezbollah were to attack UN soldiers, imagine, israel would be able to say "see, look what they do!" .

So a great strategic move for israel would be to attack the UN forces and blame it on hezbollah, a style of fighting they are historically known for.

don't give em any ideas man...

rebornFixer

Commy wrote:

don't give em any ideas man...

You guys are loopy, and basically just making shit up.

rebornFixer

MrBrian wrote:

well not really antagonize europe, because israel would want to do this without the world knowing that they (israel) did it.

Right now most of the world has a negative view of israel because of (in particular)their actions in lebanon, but if hezbollah were to attack UN soldiers, imagine, israel would be able to say "see, look what they do!" .

So a great strategic move for israel would be to attack the UN forces and blame it on hezbollah, a style of fighting they are historically known for.

So are you saying that the world also has a positive view of Hezbollah? The Arab world, maybe, which is a sad state of affairs. my point is, Israel has no reason to make Hezbollah look bad.

Commy

reborncareerist wrote:

You guys are loopy, and basically just making shit up.

that was all Mr B man...

A valid point though. Hizbollah won two battles during Israel's recent invasion of Lebanon...the battle for Lebanon and the propaganda war. Hizbollah is more popular and have more respect than they've ever had. I'm sure Israel is looking to knock them down a few notches.

MrBrian

reborncareerist wrote:

You guys are loopy, and basically just making shit up.

haha! yeah yeah dude, whatever!
----
But serioulsy, Israel has done it before, so it's not like it's so crazy to think that they won't do it again.