please be kind-haven't been here in forever

jlfinhiding

i know that eddie would be very disappointed in this thread, but after the last 2 elections, i really NEED some good valid reasons to vote this year....like many, i have lost all my faith in politics, and specifically the voting process....seeing how bush pretty much cheated to win the last 2 elections...meaning, not ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED WHEN HE WAS DECLARED PRESIDENT, and to me, that's cheating and told me that whoever has the most money wins. so therefore, i need some convincing that MY measly ONE vote would count, i'm poor like many americans, and the majority of the votes NOT COUNTED in the previous elections were the poor and minorities....
SO PLEASE BE KIND AND CONVINCE ME....cuz my vote didn't mean shit the last 2 times i did.
thanks....Jenn

Abookamongstthemany

jlfinhiding wrote:

i know that eddie would be very disappointed in this thread, but after the last 2 elections, i really NEED some good valid reasons to vote this year....like many, i have lost all my faith in politics, and specifically the voting process....seeing how bush pretty much cheated to win the last 2 elections...meaning, not ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED WHEN HE WAS DECLARED PRESIDENT, and to me, that's cheating and told me that whoever has the most money wins. so therefore, i need some convincing that MY measly ONE vote would count, i'm poor like many americans, and the majority of the votes NOT COUNTED in the previous elections were the poor and minorities....
SO PLEASE BE KIND AND CONVINCE ME....cuz my vote didn't mean shit the last 2 times i did.
thanks....Jenn

I say your vote only truly counts if it actually represents who you are and what you think is right/what you want to see in the person you are voting for. That's how you have a voice in this democracy....you make your vote echo how you think things should truly be.


If you vote for someone you have to call 'less evil' is your true voice even represented by your vote? Not unless you stand for being less evil....and I know those aren't the words that I want describing me and what I want to see in the world. I want to vote for someone I'm proud to stand behind and vote for.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." ~ Gandhi

DriftingByTheStorm

JennsInHiding?

I say, vote for who you like.
Who you REALLY like.

America MUST move past, "the lesser of the two most 'electable' candidates" ...

vote for whomever speaks to you.
if they aren't on the ballot, WRITE THEM IN.

Your vote ALWAYS matters.

If there is corruption in the system,
we as citizens, must CHECK that corruption.

We must let the system know that we will not be defeated.
We will not be jaded, and we will not fall to apathy, and we will not let the system run wild and unchecked.

Your vote is your way of telling the man, I'M STILL HERE!

Then, it is your responsibility to get to it and join with others to enforce the integrity of the system.

Go check out blackboxvoting.org and other sites.

Dig up some old links to Bev Harris and see all of the crazy shit she went through to try and guarantee an honest election in New Hampshire and beyond during the primaries.

DO NOT LET THEM DEFEAT YOUR WILL!



PS - Abookamongstthemany knows her shit.
LISTEN

jlfinhiding

thanks, this is what i NEEDED to hear, becuz i did vote for nader and felt AWFUL that i felt that those votes helped bush win, ya know?
thanks, i'll definately look more into your suggestions.
I LOVE PEARL JAM FANS!!
YOU ALL RAWK!!

Pacomc79

you should have a beer with Abuskedti

ultimately i'm pretty against the whole mess too Vote for who you want. It's NEVER your fault someone else won if you voted for a canidate you believed in. To borrow from baseball... all you can do is hit it hard.

If you want to vote your vote is only wasted if you don't vote with your heart and mind.

Hell, pat yourself on the back for taking a second to find out what's going on. That's light years more than most voters.

when they ask paper or plastic you can say.... no thanks.

Eliot Rosewater

jlfinhiding wrote:

thanks, this is what i NEEDED to hear, becuz i did vote for nader and felt AWFUL that i felt that those votes helped bush win, ya know?
thanks, i'll definately look more into your suggestions.
I LOVE PEARL JAM FANS!!
YOU ALL RAWK!!

So what's the deal with Favre anyway??

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Vote for me!!!! I need to move up to the ruling class.


i will be a benevolent and wise leader, harsh but fair to my followers, and vengeful to those that disobey me.

Abookamongstthemany

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PS - Abookamongstthemany knows her shit.
LISTEN

Aww



As does Drifting... actually, he knows more stuff than I'm brave enough to delve into sometimes.

unsung

jlfinhiding wrote:

i know that eddie would be very disappointed in this thread,

....cuz my vote didn't mean shit the last 2 times i did.
thanks....Jenn

Well that first line made me laugh, sorry.

Otherwise your vote always means something. Vote for who represents how you feel, not for who is the cool thing at the moment. Remember you are the one that has to see yourself in the mirror each morning.

If you think your vote doesn't mean anything well I'm sure the people of Iraq and Afghanistan [insert any oppressed nation] would disagree.

Heineken Helen

MrSmith wrote:

Vote for me!!!! I need to move up to the ruling class.


i will be a benevolent and wise leader, harsh but fair to my followers, and vengeful to those that disobey me.

:rolleyes: mugabe, your election is over... time to let another country get some of the attention now

To the OP. It's a tough call and one I've had to consider meself a couple of times. But basically you have to do whatever you think is the right thing to do. That's the fun thing about voting and the strange thing is it rarely seems to work out for working/lower class people

Rhinocerous Surprise

Your vote's as meaningful as you make it. You can either

1) Sit out the election and let other people decide for you
2) Vote for who the media tells you is the most electable candidate so you can feel you were listened to
3) Or you can vote for who you really feel is the best candidate, whoever that may be, and know that no matter how the results go, you supported your idea of a good president, which is all you can do.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

vote. but dont expect anything good to come out of it.

my2hands

i think the last 8 years offer a strong example of the importance of voting and participating in democracy

my2hands

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Your vote's as meaningful as you make it. You can either

1) Sit out the election and let other people decide for you
2) Vote for who the media tells you is the most electable candidate so you can feel you were listened to
3) Or you can vote for who you really feel is the best candidate, whoever that may be, and know that no matter how the results go, you supported your idea of a good president, which is all you can do.

right... and the media was telling me since 2006 to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2008... as of 6 months ago she had a seemingly unbeatable lead in every poll against all democratic candidates...

so what did i do, i did #3 on your list and will do it again in november

angelica

my2hands wrote:

so what did i do, i did #3 on your list and will do it again in november

I 100% support people voting for who they think is the best option.

I personally can no longer support systems I don't believe in. I know I need to move beyond such systems in order to perceive new ways in my life/world.

And yet, I fully respect that others feel differently.

El_Kabong

my2hands wrote:

right... and the media was telling me since 2006 to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2008... as of 6 months ago she had a seemingly unbeatable lead in every poll against all democratic candidates...

so what did i do, i did #3 on your list and will do it again in november

are you sure that was #3?

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=4488696#post4488696

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4487956&postcount=24

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4488000&postcount=28

angelica

El_Kabong wrote:

are you sure that was #3?

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=4488696#post4488696

Very impressive work!

angelica

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PS - Abookamongstthemany knows her shit.

I totally agree....Abook is a brilliant Light on this board.

I am honoured to be her friend, and to have been so influenced by her since I first saw her posts.

angelica

El_Kabong wrote:

are you sure that was #3?

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=4488696#post4488696

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4487956&postcount=24

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4488000&postcount=28

My fave one remains where he calls all the others besides Kucinich corporate whores!

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

As does Drifting... actually, he knows more stuff than I'm brave enough to delve into sometimes.

I agree!! Roland too...which is why I pay attention to what these guys see and think.

jeffwmartin

Not voting is just as valid as voting, as long as you are doing it out of principle. Not voting cause you're lazy just means you're lazy. Sometimes I don't vote at all, sometimes I don't vote in one particular race but do in the others. I no longer vote for the "lesser of two evils" because I can't consent to be governed by them any longer.

angelica

jeffwmartin wrote:

Not voting is just as valid as voting, as long as you are doing it out of principle. Not voting cause you're lazy just means you're lazy. Sometimes I don't vote at all, sometimes I don't vote in one particular race but do in the others. I no longer vote for the "lesser of two evils" because I can't consent to be governed by them any longer.

I agree with you 100% on all counts.

Bottom line: Not voting is absolutely as valid as voting.

callen

There are a few posters on this board have been very active in saying "vote for who you believe in" and I'm sure that may give one a warm fuzzy feeling but the fact is there are but two candidates that have a chance to win this election, rightly or wrongly and thus if one wants to participate, and I totally understand those that don't, one has to choose one of the two choices.

For me it comes down to the Supreme Court....the ones that ultimately interpret the constitution and the ones that are slowly chipping away at our rights and freedoms versus those of government and big business. There are potentially three judges that may retire in next 4 years and are all centrists/liberal. We get another John Roberts and we're in deep sh#t. McCain has vowed to nominate more conservatives.

As far as Obama, he is a different candidate than we've had in a long time. He's frank about what he discusses (mostly) and I can at least relate to what he's trying to say, so though I don't agree with everything he's doing think he at least has a chance to be a good president. Add to this the good vibes sent to the rest of this world and he's actually good option this time.

angelica

angelica wrote:

I personally can no longer support systems I don't believe in. I know I need to move beyond such systems in order to perceive new ways in my life/world.

A Biography in 5 Short Chapters



Chapter 1

i walk down a street
there is a deep hole in the sidewalk
i fall in
i am lost...i am hopeless
it isn't my fault
it takes forever to find my way out.


Chapter 2

i walk down the same street
there is a deep hole in the sidewalk
i pretend i dont see it
i fall in again
i cant beleive i am in the same place
but...it isnt my fault


Chapter 3

i walk down the same street
there is a deep hole in the sidewalk
i see it is there
i still fall in it, it's a habit
my eyes are open
i know where i am
it is my fault
i get out immediately


Chapter 4

i walk down the same street
there is a deep hole in the sidewalk
i walk around it


Chapter 5

i walk down another street


~Portia Nelson.

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

I totally agree....Abook is a brilliant Light on this board.

I am honoured to be her friend, and to have been so influenced by her since I first saw her posts.

:):)

It's the reflection I receive from some of the amazing people here, yourself being one of the brightest I have ever encountered.

You have been a big part of changing my life in some pretty incredible ways in these few short years of our friendship.

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

I agree!! Roland too...which is why I pay attention to what these guys see and think.

Yep, Roland, too...even when I don't agree with them, I never write them off or dismiss what they have to say. I know they always have good reasoning and have put a lot of time into their forming their opinions which is something I respect and encourage.

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Yep, Roland, too...even when I don't agree with them, I never write them off or dismiss what they have to say. I know they always have good reasoning and have put a lot of time into their forming their opinions which is something I respect and encourage.

I see differences in my own understandings from them, and yet I definitely keep my eyes and ears open for potential lessons, because I've definitely been put onto stuff I just would not have seen before were it not for them. The differences I see may just as easily be about my own blindspots.

I like that they can both actually discern information far beyond what most are seeing.

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

:)

It's the reflection I receive from some of the amazing people here, yourself being one of the brightest I have ever encountered.

You have been a big part of changing my life in some pretty incredible ways in these few short years of our friendship.

:):)

(notice I bumped one of your smilies to get all of mine in! : )

It's cool to me how all you fire-sign girls (yourself, baraka, hippiemom) taught me to get in touch with that in my own self. I knew that was happening in me from the beginning, and it was a progression that was so ready (and needed) to happen!

decides2dream

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Your vote's as meaningful as you make it. You can either

1) Sit out the election and let other people decide for you
2) Vote for who the media tells you is the most electable candidate so you can feel you were listened to
3) Or you can vote for who you really feel is the best candidate, whoever that may be, and know that no matter how the results go, you supported your idea of a good president, which is all you can do.

exactly.

personally, i think #3 is the only real option. voting just to get someone out of office, or for the lesser of two evils, or whatever else one can cook up.....just not making a 'choice' in that instance, imo anyway. i did it once and never again. i always vote b/c i think it is my duty to participate as a citizen but i have to believe i am voting for the best choice. it IS important.

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

:)

(notice I bumped one of your smilies to get all of mine in! : )

It's cool to me how all you fire-sign girls (yourself, baraka, hippiemom) taught me to get in touch with that in my own self. I knew that was happening in me from the beginning, and it was a progression that was so ready (and needed) to happen!

We pulled out some of that fire from your Aries cusp! Awesome! (Oh and I forgot to tell you, it turns out Kabong is an Aquarian/Pisces cusp Feb 22.)



And you've helped ground me and get me to think a little before subjecting others to my sometimes too blunt dishing out of my perceived truth. Just the fact that I now recognize it to be ' my perceived truth' instead of my 'I know the truth and everyone is all wrong!'...I accredit that and tons more to learning so much from you!


**I had to take a smilie from you, too. : )

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

We pulled out some of that fire from your Aries cusp! Awesome!

That's exactly what happened! For real!

When I learned about that cusp a few days ago....many things became sooo much clearer to me -- that being totally one of them!!