How worthwhile is insurance anyway?

Pacomc79

It's risk. That's all.. Management of risk. Same shit goes on in casinos day in and day out.

Anyone notice the price of healthcare wasn't a problem until the insurance companies came in?

After the last few months when I've had some issues and seen what they write off I've realized all this money I'm paying to Cigna... is really so they can negociate me a price? WTF? Why can't I get a fair price to begin with? Why can I not negociate the bill?

Because of collusion and deals between insurance the governnment and hospitals... that's part of it.

If insurance companies go under they are covered by the government anyway, so when they get defrauded, you and me bail them out.

Insurance in it's current form is a freaking scam. We don't need it for 90% of medical procedures. Examples you ask.

Ok, it shouldn't cost 26K for a broken arm without insuance. OR $900 (though far closer to reasonable) if you do have insurance. This is nonsense, the deal negates THAT much of the cost of the service. Ok, so the doctor who performs the procedure who sets the arm in 20 minutes gives you some drugs maybe and sends you on your way is worth lets say after materials 700 dollars a proverbial hour to perform that service? Uh, no. As much as people bitch and whine about oil companies over charging and we never hear about how much doctors and insurance and drug companies rip off the public.

Oh but Paul you have to go get that procedure done, you'd die without the doctor. Maybe. But somehow people lived for hundreds of thousands of years without paying THAT much for a medical procedure. Between the constant over perscribing and "follow up" visits, the whole medical industry is a scam the insurance companies are by far the biggest fiends but doctors and drug companies who feel they are entitled are nearly as bad. Then add the fucking scumbag lawyers....(and we're back to insurance again)

Socialized medicine is an idea but it dosen't solve the supply problem. Essentially, we need to have free clinics.... Regular Doctors who don't do insurance (so you can negociate your own price) and then the stuff you do need insurance for like the super high expense surgery.

Fuck a co pay. If I need to pay 150 bucks to see a doc I'll pay it vs the waste that is much of my insurance premium I'll probably come out better, just don't expect me to come in for anything unless I'm nearly dead.... and we wonder why so many people self medicate....

Going to the doctor or hospital... basically breeds bad news, avoid it like the plague. Wash your hands folks.

Drink plenty of fluids.

cornnifer

Pacomc79 wrote:

It's risk. That's all.. Management of risk. Same shit goes on in casinos day in and day out.

Anyone notice the price of healthcare wasn't a problem until the insurance companies came in?

After the last few months when I've had some issues and seen what they write off I've realized all this money I'm paying to Cigna... is really so they can negociate me a price? WTF? Why can't I get a fair price to begin with?

Because of collusion and deals between insurance the governnment and hospitals... that's part of it.

If insurance companies go under they are covered by the government anyway, so when they get defrauded, you and me bail them out.

Insurance in it's current form is a freaking scam. We don't need it for 90% of medical procedures. Examples you ask.

Ok, it shouldn't cost 26K for a broken arm without insuance. OR $900 (though far closer to reasonable) if you do have insurance. This is nonsense, the deal negates THAT much of the cost of the service. Ok, so the doctor who performs the procedure who sets the arm in 20 minutes gives you some drugs maybe and sends you on your way is worth lets say after materials 700 dollars a proverbial hour to perform that service? Uh, no. As much as people bitch and whine about oil companies over charging and we never hear about how much doctors and insurance and drug companies rip off the public.

Oh but Paul you have to go get that procedure done, you'd die without the doctor. Maybe. But somehow people lived for hundreds of thousands of years without paying THAT much for a medical procedure. Between the constant over perscribing and "follow up" visits, the whole medical industry is a scam the insurance companies are by far the biggest fiends but doctors and drug companies who feel they are entitled are nearly as bad. Then add the fucking scumbag lawyers....(and we're back to insurance again)

Socialized medicine is an idea but it dosen't solve the supply problem. Essentially, we need to have free clinics.... Regular Doctors who don't do insurance (so you can negociate your own price) and then the stuff you do need insurance for like the super high expense surgery.

Fuck a co pay. If I need to pay 150 bucks to see a doc I'll pay it vs the waste that is much of my insurance premium I'll probably come out better, just don't expect me to come in for anything unless I'm nearly dead.... and we wonder why so many people self medicate....

Going to the doctor or hospital... basically breeds bad news, avoid it like the plague. Wash your hands folks.

Drink plenty of fluids.

i've always thought that most insurance is an effing scam. Auto and life insurance especially. Throughout the course of a lifetime, you pay waaaay more into auto insurance than you will ever get back out of it. Life insurance policies don't pay for shit. Thay always have some excuse as to why they don't have to pay the claim and if you have a pre-existing condition, you either pay 10 times what you should be paying for insurance, or they won't insure you at all. Its pretty much bullshit.
Health insurance is a different animal. It costs way to much, percriptions and copays, and deductibles are fucking ridiculous, but, if you don't have it, you're fucked. It's really easy to rack up a HUGE medical bill. Without insurance, again, you're screwed. The way our medical insurance system currently exists, is a scam, but, medical insurance is pretty fucking important. Don't know if any of this makes sense, but its time for me to get the heck out of work.

slightofjeff

Here's what I hate about insurance the most.

Say you pay health insurance your entire adult life. You never get sick. You never go to the doctor. But every month, you pay (let's say) $100 to health insurance. That's $1,200 a year. $12,000 every decade.

Now, even if you don't go to the doctor, you don't get that money back. It's gone.

But let's say, after 10 years, you do have a serious health issue. You have to go to the doctor. He has to perform surgery. You have to stay overnight in the hospital.

What's the first thing that generally happens afterward? Your insurance rates go up.

You can go all your life without using insurance. But the second you actually use the service you've paid for ... they penalize you. Fuckin' scam indeed.

angryyoungman

cornnifer wrote:

i've always thought that most insurance is an effing scam. Auto and life insurance especially. Throughout the course of a lifetime, you pay waaaay more into auto insurance than you will ever get back out of it. Life insurance policies don't pay for shit. Thay always have some excuse as to why they don't have to pay the claim and if you have a pre-existing condition, you either pay 10 times what you should be paying for insurance, or they won't insure you at all. Its pretty much bullshit.
Health insurance is a different animal. It costs way to much, percriptions and copays, and deductibles are fucking ridiculous, but, if you don't have it, you're fucked. It's really easy to rack up a HUGE medical bill. Without insurance, again, you're screwed. The way our medical insurance system currently exists, is a scam, but, medical insurance is pretty fucking important. Don't know if any of this makes sense, but its time for me to get the heck out of work.

+1

gabers

Unless you or someone in your family has a catastrophic illness or injury, I totally agree. But that's the thing. My son was born with a condition where he spent the first three months in the Neo-natal Intensive Care Unit at Texas Children's Hospital here in Houston. I got a call about two weeks before he left from a rep from Blue Cross (my provider at the time). He was calling to inform me to not get too nervous yet, but my son's bills had surpassed $700,000, and that my plan had a $1,000,000 cap. Well, I've moved on to a different employer since then and thank God my son is doing well now. He's only had to go back to the hospital for mandatory follow ups. My point is though, without insurance, I would have been absolutely fucked. But at the same time, it's very frustrating when you pay a $20 co-pay to have your sore knee looked at, get an x-ray and a 10 minute exam from an ortho doctor and get a bill for $250 for x-rays. Why weren't they covered?! I am paying about $800 a month in medical insurance for myself, my wife, and son. My employer is probably matching that. Why in the Hell should I owe anything for such a trivial visit? This happens all the time and it's a travesty, to me. If privatizing isn't the answer, what is?

Kel Varnsen

Pacomc79 wrote:

Ok, so the doctor who performs the procedure who sets the arm in 20 minutes gives you some drugs maybe and sends you on your way is worth lets say after materials 700 dollars a proverbial hour to perform that service? Uh, no. As much as people bitch and whine about oil companies over charging and we never hear about how much doctors and insurance and drug companies rip off the public.

I agree with most of your post except this part. The reason doctors charge so much (excluding their insurance and overhead costs) is the fact that these are highly trained individuals and their training itself is very expensive. It is like any other profession that requires a ton of training. If anyone with a high school diploma could practice medicine it would be way cheaper.

Pacomc79

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I agree with most of your post except this part. The reason doctors charge so much (excluding their insurance and overhead costs) is the fact that these are highly trained individuals and their training itself is very expensive. It is like any other profession that requires a ton of training. If anyone with a high school diploma could practice medicine it would be way cheaper.

I'm not begrudging doctors making a good wage..... they worked thier ass off to get where they are.... thier overhead (malpractice etc) is WAY to high and needlessly so. That being said the rates they charge the Uninsured to make up for the loss they take on for the insurance/government write offs and malpractice copay's etc.... is freaking highway robbery.... and most of the follow up visits are unnecessary not to mention they spend maybe 3 minutes in there with you after reading your file to get the 3 or 400 bucks they'll get between you and the insurance company just to see you. Then due to all those lovely pill salesmen....they'll give you a few samples of the 150 dollar medication that you "need"

Doctors are a little like IT help desk people. They have this little industry that few people know a lot about and they use it to thier advantage.