Why We'll Never Leave Iraq
mbangel10
Posts: 548
The war in Iraq did not start after September 11, 2001, it had already been predestined back in November 2000. The war in Iraq was waged when Saddam Hussein made the decision to start selling oil to the world by utilizing the Euro instead of the U.S. Dollar. The little relations that had been built up between the U.S. and Iraq effectively crumbled when the Clinton's left the White House.
Saddam decided to kill two birds with one stone when George W. Bush won the election. He effectively told the U.S. to kiss off and then proceeded to give George Bush, Jr the middle finger by switching all of Iraq's oil accounts to the Euro. This action made Saddam a ton of money. Think about it... when all (Euro currency) foreign countries had to buy oil with their own currency, the Euro then became stronger than the U.S. Dollar and Saddam reaped the rewards while our own government seethed. The U.S. was losing a lot of money, and it looked like other members of OPEC were suddenly very interested in switching their accounts over as well.
Venezuela was next in line to follow Iraq's lead. The United States was on the verge of an economic disaster - not so much the Great Depression but the entire country would have felt their belts tightening and their wallets getting thinner. The good thing was at this time, our deficit was substantial but controllable. An economic downfall would have put a large cramp in our style but we could have survived financially with some decent planning and a lot of talks with the other members of OPEC to keep them in our good graces. However, what we did was decide to invade Iraq and bully the other nations.
To the members of our new government, overtaking Saddam looked really great on paper. If we could take over control of the oil fields, then we could control the currency which was used to sell it, it all seemed the best way to go. However, Daddy Bush had already dealt with Iraq and had stated quite publicly that trying to overtake Saddam was a bad way to go. As a matter of fact, he wrote an essay (link below) about it which appeared in Time magazine back in March of 1998. Even though I didn't agree with a lot of things George Bush, Sr did while he was in the White House, I did agree with that essay. Now, looking back on it... he outlined the situation our military forces are dealing with now perfectly.
If only his son had listened to his father instead of taking the advice of Donald Rumsfeld.
When we invaded Iraq we also pissed off the countries that use the Euro as currency. Why do you think France was so ticked off at us? We hit those countries in their collective pocketbooks. There was no way those countries were going to support a war that was costing them tremendous amounts of money. Britain and Canada sided with us but they don't exactly thrive on the Euro now do they?
The United States didn't have support of the United Nations when we first attacked. Why? Because essentially, there are more countries than the U.S. that are members of the U.N. It wasn't in those countries best interest to stand behind the U.S. so we could protect our "interests" in Iraq. The interests of quite a few U.N. nations were effectively hurt by our actions, and it wasn't until it was way too late to go back did the U.N. offer support to the war on terrorism. The countries that we did hurt, however, will be pissed at us for a long time and our relations with them are going to bear the brunt of our actions for many, many years to come.
The war wasn't about terrorism, it was about the almighty dollar and most of the world was quite aware of it. Well, it seemed like everyone was, except the actual Americans who thought that we were invading Iraq because they believed that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 because our very own government was trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
It is now mid 2007 and there are no signs of us ever leaving Iraq. There won't be an exit strategy anytime soon either. The deficit is now astronomical because of the war. If we leave Iraq, if we show any kind of weakness to the oil great countries under OPEC, and they decide to switch to the Euro now, the Great Depression will look like a cake walk.
The only way we can get a leg up in this is to make nice with the surrounding middle east nations that hate us right now. We've got a long road ahead of us, and many more soldiers will die in this Euro vs. Dollar war. Our only hope is that the next President that takes office will be able to build bridges where George Bush had blown them to smithereens.
Communication is what will keep us out of the poorhouse, and unfortunately, all Bush seems to know how to do is "send more troops". Right now the war is at an impasse and it will remain that way until someone is strong enough to change the path we are on. So, we can't leave Iraq right now because if we leave too soon, and we lose this war... well, I'll be seeing you in line at the soup kitchen.
Articles worth reading:
The real reasons for the upcoming war in Iraq
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
After Iraq it is Venezuela
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/11-27b-04.asp
The War on Oil
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/18/news/economy/ethanol_oilwar/index.htm
The Essay by George Bush Sr.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bushsr-iraq.htm
There are literally a ton of articles about this, mostly from foreign press (not surprisingly). The more you read non-US censored articles, the more you'll come to understand what is really happening and why.
No one has come out and stated matter-of-fact that Saddam's switching to the Euro was a slap in the face to the Bush Administration (that I've read, anyway), but time lines mean a lot and 2+2 does =4.
Saddam decided to kill two birds with one stone when George W. Bush won the election. He effectively told the U.S. to kiss off and then proceeded to give George Bush, Jr the middle finger by switching all of Iraq's oil accounts to the Euro. This action made Saddam a ton of money. Think about it... when all (Euro currency) foreign countries had to buy oil with their own currency, the Euro then became stronger than the U.S. Dollar and Saddam reaped the rewards while our own government seethed. The U.S. was losing a lot of money, and it looked like other members of OPEC were suddenly very interested in switching their accounts over as well.
Venezuela was next in line to follow Iraq's lead. The United States was on the verge of an economic disaster - not so much the Great Depression but the entire country would have felt their belts tightening and their wallets getting thinner. The good thing was at this time, our deficit was substantial but controllable. An economic downfall would have put a large cramp in our style but we could have survived financially with some decent planning and a lot of talks with the other members of OPEC to keep them in our good graces. However, what we did was decide to invade Iraq and bully the other nations.
To the members of our new government, overtaking Saddam looked really great on paper. If we could take over control of the oil fields, then we could control the currency which was used to sell it, it all seemed the best way to go. However, Daddy Bush had already dealt with Iraq and had stated quite publicly that trying to overtake Saddam was a bad way to go. As a matter of fact, he wrote an essay (link below) about it which appeared in Time magazine back in March of 1998. Even though I didn't agree with a lot of things George Bush, Sr did while he was in the White House, I did agree with that essay. Now, looking back on it... he outlined the situation our military forces are dealing with now perfectly.
If only his son had listened to his father instead of taking the advice of Donald Rumsfeld.
When we invaded Iraq we also pissed off the countries that use the Euro as currency. Why do you think France was so ticked off at us? We hit those countries in their collective pocketbooks. There was no way those countries were going to support a war that was costing them tremendous amounts of money. Britain and Canada sided with us but they don't exactly thrive on the Euro now do they?
The United States didn't have support of the United Nations when we first attacked. Why? Because essentially, there are more countries than the U.S. that are members of the U.N. It wasn't in those countries best interest to stand behind the U.S. so we could protect our "interests" in Iraq. The interests of quite a few U.N. nations were effectively hurt by our actions, and it wasn't until it was way too late to go back did the U.N. offer support to the war on terrorism. The countries that we did hurt, however, will be pissed at us for a long time and our relations with them are going to bear the brunt of our actions for many, many years to come.
The war wasn't about terrorism, it was about the almighty dollar and most of the world was quite aware of it. Well, it seemed like everyone was, except the actual Americans who thought that we were invading Iraq because they believed that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 because our very own government was trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
It is now mid 2007 and there are no signs of us ever leaving Iraq. There won't be an exit strategy anytime soon either. The deficit is now astronomical because of the war. If we leave Iraq, if we show any kind of weakness to the oil great countries under OPEC, and they decide to switch to the Euro now, the Great Depression will look like a cake walk.
The only way we can get a leg up in this is to make nice with the surrounding middle east nations that hate us right now. We've got a long road ahead of us, and many more soldiers will die in this Euro vs. Dollar war. Our only hope is that the next President that takes office will be able to build bridges where George Bush had blown them to smithereens.
Communication is what will keep us out of the poorhouse, and unfortunately, all Bush seems to know how to do is "send more troops". Right now the war is at an impasse and it will remain that way until someone is strong enough to change the path we are on. So, we can't leave Iraq right now because if we leave too soon, and we lose this war... well, I'll be seeing you in line at the soup kitchen.
Articles worth reading:
The real reasons for the upcoming war in Iraq
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
After Iraq it is Venezuela
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/11-27b-04.asp
The War on Oil
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/18/news/economy/ethanol_oilwar/index.htm
The Essay by George Bush Sr.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bushsr-iraq.htm
There are literally a ton of articles about this, mostly from foreign press (not surprisingly). The more you read non-US censored articles, the more you'll come to understand what is really happening and why.
No one has come out and stated matter-of-fact that Saddam's switching to the Euro was a slap in the face to the Bush Administration (that I've read, anyway), but time lines mean a lot and 2+2 does =4.
Pitt 98, Pitt 00, Cleveland 03, Pitt 03, State College 03, Toledo 04, Toronto 05, Pitt 05, Cleveland 06, Pitt 06 & Chicago 07, Chicago 1&2 09, Philly 2,3,4 09, Cleveland 10, Columbus 10, Alpine Valley 1& 2 11
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
They'll be enough hatred around at that point to hang out over there for several centuries...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You bring nothing to the table.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
What an idiotic statement. Glad I dont use that in every thread.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Me too. I agree. Terrible debate tactic.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
That about sums it up.
actually love/dependency of oil that brings about hatred...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Technically it's the love of the currency used to pay for that oil. Had Saddam kept all trades in the U.S. Dollar, the arguments of bringing freedom to Iraq would be a non issue as we never would have invaded them in the first place. The government wasn't very concerned with Iraq's freedom, they were concerned about the economy and big oil company interests.
yes that.... although you can't burn money for energy...you need the oil to live and succeed until another energy form is established.
Sad thing is all these (500+) billions could have gone a long way in developing an alternate energy source... unfortunate the US gov't chose the lazy and less noble path.
I guess that's pretty much we can all expect when oil barons are actually running the country.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Of it was really imperialism it would be a lot easier.
Occupying a country for years with a volatile military presence is a really shitty thing to do. It's been quite a while now. The resentment over there I imagine must be overwhelming at this point and spreading out well into outlying regions also as more and more innocents are killed. What a mistake to stay for so long. You just can't beat the world into submission. Human nature (from what I've seen) isn't like that. People just fight back harder and come together in times of hardship and oppression. I'm actually more than a bit worried for the outcome of the US economy.
US military presence and threat in the middle east is only going to become increasingly worse as time goes on...there's no alternative if the game stays about oil.
If the rest of the world decides to go Euro's for oil energy the US is essentially fucked. The more they are hated by the middle east...the more likely this is going to happen. I guess it all depends.
Alternative energy is probably going to become crucial to the US staying out of huge economic recession unless somehow global opinion drastically changes (soon).
Unless I'm entirely wrong...but I can't see how the US gov't doesn't already see this as a very real possibility.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yeah...seriously...you're right. It's a pretty crazy combination to take a guy that's globally hated with a passion and let him run around blowing stuff up.
talk about your double whammy... What did Americans do to deserve this.... except maybe vote for him....twice....doh! Well most Americans didn't.... just not the most...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
It seems a stupid thing to do but they must be pretty confident that any comeback would be small scale.
Isn't the US econmy all ready in trouble?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I'm not so sure if it's a confidence thing or a scenario of letting the bet ride and hoping the gamble will pay off. They have very few available options aside from inventing a new energy source.
The US economy is fine as long as they have the ability to print endless amounts of US currency freely at will via international oil transactions. Take that privilege away...big...big..problems...the walls come crashing down kind of problems.
It's like a rockstar that eats everywhere for free and is top dog because of his/her superstar status. When they lose their popularity, and nobody likes or buys their records anymore (and the debtors come collecting)...they are essentially washed up. Oil trading in US currency is the music.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
If you glance at the 3rd article I linked to, it looks like maybe plan B is already in effect.
Well, not so much lazy as idiotic.
Alternate fuels is the solution that makes the most sense to us, unfortunately, it's not a solution to the big oil companies that are controlling Bush like a puppet. Until he's man enough to cut the strings or we get a president that doesn't let oil companies dictate our path, then we'll never get out of this.
Well, unless of course we (by some miracle) find an Iraqi government strong enough to keep the country stable but is passive enough to follow our governments own self interests. Then and only then will our military presence in Iraq become minimal.
As u wrote, Us did actually attack Irak because the oil, all of the world knows that exept the Americans.
Do you know that Osama Bin Laden dont spell his name like that? His Name in the rest of the world, and his real name is;
USAMA BIN LADEN, but the us goverment didnt like the USA in the beginning so they changed it to OSA insted.
Aliases: Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin, Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin, the Prince, the Emir, Abu Abdallah, Mujahid Shaykh, Hajj, the Director
Sorry but youre goverment sucks BIG time
-00, Stockholm
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-19, EV Brussels