Oh really?? Those guys in Vietnam chose to do that?
Seriously?
Yep seriously. If you really didn't believe in the Vietnam war, you could have refused to go. It would have cost you some time in jail, but hey....standing behind your principles is worth that don't you think?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
these vets chose to get PTSD and/or other disabling injuries when they signed up? or in the case with Vietnam were drafted? if they end up with problems as a result of their time spent serving in a warzone the government of the country that they served owes, yes OWES it to them to see that they don't end up on the streets.
you have all the empathy and compassion of a maniacal piranha
What do you think you are sigining up for when you enlist? A country club?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
how did the veterans who were drafted 'choose' to kill people?
My father was drafted. He declined because he refused to participate in something he viewed as wrong. He was put in jail for quite a long time. When he was released after the war, his conscience was clear.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
speAking as a WMA. teh government has a duty to protect the people that fought the wars to protect your freedom.
Thats one way to look at it I suppose. However, if a soldier comes back and chooses not to reenter the civilian world, that is no ones fault but his own.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
So I guess it's ok to break the law in some circumstances?
You can rally against your government and go to jail if you're conscripted, refuse to go and that's acceptable BUT if you did what they wanted and went, and now you're completely fucked up and in need of assistance, breaking the law and getting involved in drugs, sleeping on the street, participating in the first place, doing what the law and the government required of you, that would make you a bad person and thoroughly deserving of bad things??????
I must remember to tell my uncle that he's a total bastard and unworthy of any further assistance for doing what his government decreed and "deliberately" going off to Vietnam to be a warmonger just because his "number" came up. :rolleyes: Because he didn't want to break the law. He would have been a much better person if he broke the law and went to jail for his ideals. :rolleyes: Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
War is never a good thing and quite frankly I think we as human beings should be above such behaviour, but if governments and big business insist on continuing to battle other countries by sending off their young men and women to combat then they have a responsibility to clean up their mess. AND if they make a mess of you as an individual by using you to get their dirty work done, then I say start digging deep into all that filthy lucre you got from your warmongering ways in the first place and assure the health and happiness of the people that sacrificed so you could get rich and powerful.
If the government doesn't want to spend money on veterans, then don't make anymore of them. Simple.
What do you think you are sigining up for when you enlist? A country club?
I'm damn sure that anyone that enlists knows that they're not signing on to go to a country club. however, I'm also sure that when they do sign up that if they think that they may be one of the ones that gets injured physically or mentally that the military will pay for them to receive the on-going health care and/or therapy that they'll need in such case.
in fact i'm pretty fucking certain that they never get told before or even after enlisting that if they do get injured while at war that the military and government may very well turn their back on them, and all they will receive for their sacrifices is a great big Fuck You.
Yep seriously. If you really didn't believe in the Vietnam war, you could have refused to go. It would have cost you some time in jail, but hey....standing behind your principles is worth that don't you think?
How about if you join the Air National Guard to avoid getting deployed to Vietnam? Or if you get five deferments to avoid getting drafted? Was that the honorable thing to do?
I'd be willing to bet McCain has had a whole lot of therapy. For his ordeal in Vietnam he gets my respect and sympathy, regardless of his politics. But honestly, I could never vote for him to be president even if I did love his politics. In my mind he's always one step away from having a flashback and ordering a nuke strike.
Have you seen "Born on the Fourth of July"? I think what Ron Kovic went through was emblamatic for a lot of veterans. They were duped into serving their country and trusting their leaders. Kind of like a lot of the guys who joined after 9/11.
Thats one way to look at it I suppose. However, if a soldier comes back and chooses not to reenter the civilian world, that is no ones fault but his own.
what about the ones that come back unemployable due to PTSD or other injuries, that the civilian world won't hire or rent to? how in the fuck is that no one's fault but their own?
Have you seen "Born on the Fourth of July"? I think what Ron Kovic went through was emblamatic for a lot of veterans. They were duped into serving their country and trusting their leaders. Kind of like a lot of the guys who joined after 9/11.
I'm glad you mentioned it. I recently bought it at a second hand bookstore and am reading it. It's a great book. I have seen the movie, but I'm liking the book so much more.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...all these poor guys...
I remember the guy without legs selling pencils in SF on a wooden thing with wheels from WWII...now we have more guys suffering and they're getting even less help.
My father was drafted. He declined because he refused to participate in something he viewed as wrong. He was put in jail for quite a long time. When he was released after the war, his conscience was clear.
does your father share the same view as you? 'fuck any one who went there. they chose to kill. so fuck them. they can look after themselves'?
wouldn't someone who was so opposed to the war, that they spent time in jail, have sympathy and compassion for these men?
it is the responsibility of the government to care for, and protect the people that fought the wars that they were ordered to fight in, by their government.
Comments
You can rally against your government and go to jail if you're conscripted, refuse to go and that's acceptable BUT if you did what they wanted and went, and now you're completely fucked up and in need of assistance, breaking the law and getting involved in drugs, sleeping on the street, participating in the first place, doing what the law and the government required of you, that would make you a bad person and thoroughly deserving of bad things??????
I must remember to tell my uncle that he's a total bastard and unworthy of any further assistance for doing what his government decreed and "deliberately" going off to Vietnam to be a warmonger just because his "number" came up. :rolleyes: Because he didn't want to break the law. He would have been a much better person if he broke the law and went to jail for his ideals. :rolleyes: Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
War is never a good thing and quite frankly I think we as human beings should be above such behaviour, but if governments and big business insist on continuing to battle other countries by sending off their young men and women to combat then they have a responsibility to clean up their mess. AND if they make a mess of you as an individual by using you to get their dirty work done, then I say start digging deep into all that filthy lucre you got from your warmongering ways in the first place and assure the health and happiness of the people that sacrificed so you could get rich and powerful.
If the government doesn't want to spend money on veterans, then don't make anymore of them. Simple.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm damn sure that anyone that enlists knows that they're not signing on to go to a country club. however, I'm also sure that when they do sign up that if they think that they may be one of the ones that gets injured physically or mentally that the military will pay for them to receive the on-going health care and/or therapy that they'll need in such case.
in fact i'm pretty fucking certain that they never get told before or even after enlisting that if they do get injured while at war that the military and government may very well turn their back on them, and all they will receive for their sacrifices is a great big Fuck You.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
How about if you join the Air National Guard to avoid getting deployed to Vietnam? Or if you get five deferments to avoid getting drafted? Was that the honorable thing to do?
I'd be willing to bet McCain has had a whole lot of therapy. For his ordeal in Vietnam he gets my respect and sympathy, regardless of his politics. But honestly, I could never vote for him to be president even if I did love his politics. In my mind he's always one step away from having a flashback and ordering a nuke strike.
Have you seen "Born on the Fourth of July"? I think what Ron Kovic went through was emblamatic for a lot of veterans. They were duped into serving their country and trusting their leaders. Kind of like a lot of the guys who joined after 9/11.
what about the ones that come back unemployable due to PTSD or other injuries, that the civilian world won't hire or rent to? how in the fuck is that no one's fault but their own?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I'm glad you mentioned it.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I remember the guy without legs selling pencils in SF on a wooden thing with wheels from WWII...now we have more guys suffering and they're getting even less help.
It's wrong!!! :(
wouldn't someone who was so opposed to the war, that they spent time in jail, have sympathy and compassion for these men?
it is the responsibility of the government to care for, and protect the people that fought the wars that they were ordered to fight in, by their government.